Looking for clarification on titles

Maynard · 06/09/07, 3:11 AM

I know that non-discussion promoting threads are normally frowned upon here, but I've searched high and low and am a little unsure on how titles work.

For those unaware, titles are as follows:

1 Gladiator Top 0.5%
2 Duelist 0.5% - 3.0%
3 Rival 3% - 10%
4 Challenger 10% - 35%

Now, I was under the impression that you get that title if you are in the top x% of the top 5,000 teams, but I haven't found this documented anywhere. Is this how it works and, more importantly, is there any way one can figure out in advance what rank/points they need to get a title?

Lysander1 · 06/09/07, 3:33 AM

I believe Blizzard stated at some point that it was top x% of all teams rather than just those seen in the armory. The only way to estimate how many teams are truly in your battlegroup is to find as low rated an arena team as you can and see what rank they have. I think due to this more people are going to recieve Netherdrakes than previously thought.

Dinadass · 06/09/07, 9:38 AM

Yes, it's based on the total number of teams that exist in your bracket, not just the ones listed on the armory. Many battlegroups have 10k+ 2v2 teams, meaning there will be over 50 teams with drakes and the Gladiator title.

Hawzy · 06/09/07, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dinadass

Yes, it's based on the total number of teams that exist in your bracket, not just the ones listed on the armory. Many battlegroups have 10k+ 2v2 teams, meaning there will be over 50 teams with drakes and the Gladiator title.

One of the good tricks mentioned on the wow pvp forums was to find the lowest ranked team in 5v5 that you can (there are usually less than 5000) and see what 2v2 or 3v3 teams those members are on, usually there is a strong correlation of bad ratings between brackets.

gia · 06/09/07, 12:18 PM

I've managed to get a very rough estimate of battlegroup size by comparing the ratings in groups that have less than 5000 teams. Basically I compared 10 battlegroups for 3v3 and noted the percentage of teams above 1499 1600 and 1700 rating. Those turned out to be pretty standard across the board in all of the observed ladders (roughly 44-46% for >1499, 22-25% for >1600 and 12-14% for >1700).

Keep in mind I only checked about 10 3v3 ladders so there's a chance this won't translate well to 2v2 and 5v5.

I'd do some more research but I can't browse the armory for more than a minute without firefox crashing

Also, maybe someone that is actually good at math can do a better job.

Anyway how this can be used... look for the ranking of teams rated 1700 1600 and 1499 in your battlegroup, divide by the percentages given and you should have a VERY rough estimate of total size.

Edit: Using these numbers on the OP battlegroup (Bloodlust-US) I'd guess there are roughly 7500 teams in 3v3 and 15000 teams in 2v2.

Maynard · 06/09/07, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by gia

I've managed to get a very rough estimate of battlegroup size by comparing the ratings in groups that have less than 5000 teams. Basically I compared 10 battlegroups for 3v3 and noted the percentage of teams above 1499 1600 and 1700 rating. Those turned out to be pretty standard across the board in all of the observed ladders (roughly 44-46% for >1499, 22-25% for >1600 and 12-14% for >1700).

Keep in mind I only checked about 10 3v3 ladders so there's a chance this won't translate well to 2v2 and 5v5.

I'd do some more research but I can't browse the armory for more than a minute without firefox crashing

Also, maybe someone that is actually good at math can do a better job.

Anyway how this can be used... look for the ranking of teams rated 1700 1600 and 1499 in your battlegroup, divide by the percentages given and you should have a VERY rough estimate of total size.

Edit: Using these numbers on the OP battlegroup (Bloodlust-US) I'd guess there are roughly 7500 teams in 3v3 and 15000 teams in 2v2.

I decided to go one step ahead and did a lot of math (easy math, admittedly) and research on my own. Here's a copy/paste from my post on the Bloodlust Forums:

Hey guys, skip to the bold bits if you want the numbers without the background. The background can be used if you just want to check the rigour of my method, or if you want to apply it to another battlegroup. These numbers only apply to Bloodlust, and only apply to this season. This math is also purely speculative on current and largely unconfirmed information, so don't take it as gospel.

Earlier today I set out to work out if my two characters had any shot at getting the top 35% and top 10% titles for their 2v2 (Druid - Sytadel) and 3v3 (Hunter - Maynard) teams. Just to clarify briefly for all those who are unaware, on the 19th at the end of the arena season, all arenas have a chance to recieve a title based on where they stand relative to other teams. Titles are what preceeds a character name, similar to Justicar or Knight-Captain. For Arena, they are:

Top 0.5% teams - Gladiator (+ mount)
Top 3% teams - Duelist
Top 10% teams - Rival
Top 35% teams - Challenger

This is the top % of all teams, not just those listed on Armory. Armory only lists the top 5,000 or so for each bracket. The difficulty in determing the top x% is basically that there's no easy way to tell how many teams there are in any bracket, with the exception of 5v5, for which there is less than 5,000 teams and hence they all show on armory. The only way I know of to find out how many 2v2 and 3v3 teams there are is to find the lowest rated team you can, and check what they are ranked.

The method for doing this was to find the lowest 5 or so 5v5 teams in Bloodlust, and see what 2v2 and 3v3 teams their members are on - players in poor 5v5 teams are likely to be on low 2v2 and 3v3 teams. I don't take credit for this method, but I don't know who thought it up, so props to whoever it was. This method isn't foolproof, but I found that all of the people in the bottom 5v5 teams tended to be in similarly and lowly ranked 2v2 and 3v3s, so I think it's fair to say this is a good approximation. Also: Apologies in advanced for any teams ranked here, your rankings are only mentioned here for purposes of information; not ridicule.

The last part is simple. Once you have an estimate of the lowest for each bracket, you can find out the cutoff ranks simply by multiplying the lowest ranking by the % of the title. E.g. (lowest3v3)*0.1 = rank needed to get a "Rival" title from your 2v2 team. You then find the team sitting at that rank and look at their rating to get that estimate.

A reminder that these figures are speculative and estimated. If anyone finds a flaw in my math or method, call it up and I'll do as best I can to correct it (or discredit myself if I cannot).

That's about it. Without further delay:

--------- 5v5 Bracket Information ---------
Lowest ranked team: "Beware of Dog". Rating: 1000. Rank: 3409.

Title / Math / Rank Needed (% x 3409) / Rating Needed
Gladiator: / 17 / 2322
Duelist: / 102 / 1968
Rival: / 341 / 1734
Challenger: / 1193 / 1511

--------- 3v3 Bracket Information ---------
Lowest ranked team found: "Burning Light". Rating: 1003. Rank: 7467.

Title / Math / Rank Needed (% x 7467) / Rating Needed
Gladiator: / 37 / 2217
Duelist: / 102 / 2062
Rival: / 747 / 1733
Challenger: / 2613 / 1535

--------- 2v2 Bracket Information ---------
Lowest ranked team found: "Draught". Rating: 1024. Rank: 13846.

Title / Math / Rank Needed (% x 13846) / Rating Needed
Gladiator: / 69 / 2115
Duelist: / 416 / 1828
Rival: / 1387 / 1634
Challenger: / 4846 / 1437

That's about the jist of it guys. IF anyone is feeling not lazy and would like to check my math and method, feel free - I'm not 100% I'm on the money here.

Hope this helps anyone with similar questions for me, and as I said, feel free to have a go at my method if anything is wrong.

gia · 06/09/07, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by Maynard

Hope this helps anyone with similar questions for me, and as I said, feel free to have a go at my method if anything is wrong.

There's something fishy with your 2v2 numbers, given the battlegroup size you stated (13846), 10% should be rating 1757 and 35% should be rating 1548.

Hawzy · 06/09/07, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by gia

There's something fishy with your 2v2 numbers, given the battlegroup size you stated (13846), 10% should be rating 1757 and 35% should be rating 1548.

You can't determine the rating from their rank in the battlegroup... There are all sorts of factors you are leaving out, such as teams being recreated; not to mention that ratings aren't linear.

Maynard · 06/10/07, 4:37 AM

Originally Posted by Hawzy

You can't determine the rating from their rank in the battlegroup... There are all sorts of factors you are leaving out, such as teams being recreated; not to mention that ratings aren't linear.

I agree that ratings aren't linear, but they weren't derived in a linear fashion so I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Teams being recreated (or disbanding, or perfectly new ones) being created is an issue, hence why I'm bothering with this so late in the season - changes over the next week or two are likely to be minimised. If I could control for this variable I would =(

Edit: Additionally, double-checking Gia's numbers, over the past 24 hours the rating req by my system has only fluctuated by 1/0 points respectively. Assuming these fluctuations are random I can't see the rating required changing by any more than 10-15 maximum over the next week and a half.

There's something fishy with your 2v2 numbers, given the battlegroup size you stated (13846), 10% should be rating 1757 and 35% should be rating 1548.

I just double checked my numbers, and you're correct on this. Thanks for checking those.