Hello all,

My warlock friend and I just reached 70 two weeks ago, and have been unable to play much due to our conflicting schedules. We have however managed to play a bit of arenas and reach a rating of 1700 yesterday, despite our dismal gear. Once our finals are over, we plan to finally gear up and give arenas a good go.

This all brings me to my two very important questions:
1) How worth it is for me to rely so much on stamina gems after I get geared up in BG and gladiator gear? I already have 70,000 honor saved up until the next patch, so I'll be buying some good gear that I intend to socket. However, I'm conflicted in regards to if I should follow the norm and get +12 stamina gems, or if maybe I could go a little more offensive? I'm all for survivability and I do plan to get every epic BG and Arena item; however, as a rogue, will I really always be the one to get attacked after my warlock ally (he is affliction spec, btw.) It would logic that as a mutilate rogue, perhaps crit gems might suit me better if the trend continues that I'm always attacked last. I'm still very conflicted on this point and really don't know how to proceed.

2) My second question is actually more daunting. I'm currently 41/20/0, however, I'm strongly considering either 41/13/7 or 41/0/20. Dirtry tricks can be really helpful, since the name of our game is control; we can't heal, but we can sap/fear/blind/coil them. I've been using sap a lot more lately, and both the increased range and reduced energy cost would have been very useful. However, I worry about the damage lost of DWS when compared to opportunity. How big of a hit in damage do you guys think that is? Also, how much DPS does serrated blades add when compared to +5% hit?

Thanks in advance for any replies! ^_^

Thanks for the reply, Sagerix.

Considering that you're concerned with PvE, I'm not surprised that you're staying 41/20/0, however, all I really care about is having the best spec for PvP. I still feel that I'll need to take up dirty tricks; it's just too useful to pass up. However, I'm not sure if serrated blades > 5% hit.

As far as him speccing demonology, that's actually something we talked about; however, we've ultimately decided against it, for now. If he were to spec demonologist, he would lose improved Howl of Terror, which we both feel makes up for his lack of durability. We're still not sure if eventually we'll feel that 20% mitigation would be more useful, but for now, if we do things right, we feel comfortable with how much we can control our enemy.

I really agree with you on the issue of gems. It has also been my experience that every team will go after him first; it is rare for me to notice otherwise. Taking that into account, considering how much hp and resilience BG/Arena gear will give me, along with the healthstone I use, one would imagine that I have enough durability as a rogue to use more offensive gems. However, all the rogue/warlock teams I've seen that made it into the top 20 of the 2v2 arena ladder have used stamina gem; that makes me think that they might know something I don't. They could also be simply following the trend, but I don't know; considering their rank, one would image that there is some thought behind that choice.

All the top 2v2 team players have geared up in 5v5 anyway -- that's what allowed them to have the gear to win the 2v2 season (when 'pure' 2v2ers will be getting a lot less points than a decently rated 5s team). Which might explain their gemming. I wear almost full PvE in 2v2 a lot of the time, especially against double cloth teams. But in 5v5 it's Elunes all the way, so my PvP gear is gemmed like that.

Interesting point, Tikki. I never thought about it that way. I still do feel there is value to BG/Arena gear for a rogue, even when paired with a warlock. However, adding stamina gems to the arena/bg gear makes me feel as if I'm putting all my eggs in one basket.

I 2v2 with a warlock friend of mine and was interested in learning some techniques used to counter certain matchups, especially the commonplace warrior/pally team. Right now it's extremely difficult for either of us to survive 12 seconds worth of bubble heals since we both have fairly lousy gear. Will better gear do the trick, is there some strategy we're missing, or is this just an ugly matchup anyway you cut it? Any advice regarding how to play rogue/warlock 2v2 to its fullest is appreciated.

The only way to do warrior/paladin as warlock/rogue is to get the pally down. You don't have enough burst to blow the doors off the warrior.

If the warrior is bad, you can sap him and proceed to try to get the pally to bubble. Once the pally bubbles, then switch to the warrior to try to hurt him while the paladin is busy trying to heal himself. Once the paladin bubble is about to wear off, find some way to CC the warrior and crush the paladin, then try to finish off the warrior.

This fight's pretty much a gear check. Running with my rogue, I've occasionally managed to wipe the paladin before he can bubble, which is deeply satisfying. More often than not, the warrior has deep thunder and just wades in there shredding us up before we can really grab the paladin.

My experience as a Demo Lock/Rogue is the opposite. Everytime we try to go for the pala the warrior simply beats us to death: you can't blind him, you can't fear him, seduce is a no go (all of these assuming his pala partner is competent). We just max dps the warrior while i fear/cot the pala. To put some decent healing the paladin HAS to bubble because with Cot and 5 stacks of wounding poisons he simply can't outheal our dps (mine, rogue's + felguard's)

I've found also that istant summoning the felhunter to remove that pesky BOF or BOP can be the key to win too

If the warrior goes for my rogue buddy leaving me free to chaincast and disrupt paladin's healing it's usually a 100% win.
If the rogue is in trouble i just blow DC to give him some relief.

Maybe I'm WAY off here, but from my experience, here's what I would do as a rogue/warlock vs a warrior/pally.

Make damn sure you keep CoT on the pally, fear him liberally, and attempt to burn the warrior down. Chances are he will bubble early during a fear, as he doesnt want his warrior friend to die. When he bubbles, have the warlock switch the fear to the warrior. Chances are the warrior wont be feared (due to their anti-fear talents), but what it does is it resets the immunity on the paladin. When the paladin is out of his bubble, keep CoT on him, refear him, burn the warrior. Have a Felhunter on the ready to Lock the paladin as soon as he comes out of his fear if he's gonna get a heal off.

If you guys wanna try to burn the paladin down first, then you have got to use the fact that a paladin cannot bubble while interrupted to your advantage. Wait until the paladin gets to about 20%. Have the rogue keep 5 combo points at the ready, make sure the lock has Shadowburn at the ready. When the paladin hits 20%, Spell Lock him during a heal if you can. This gives you a very small window to burn him down quickly, as he wont be able to bubble thru Spell Lock. Keep in mind, any warrior worth a shit will just burn your Felhunter down first so you cannot do this.

This is completely untrue, and makes me question whether you're playing the same game as me. Paladins can bubble out of any silence effect (spell lock silence, improved counterspell, priest talented silence...) but they can't cast their bubble when their holy tree is interrupted, meaning you hit the spell lock/counterspell as they were casting a holy spell. Same deal with iceblock.

While the tone might have been off but the difference between an interupt and a silence is a fairly fundamental pvp concept, . Considering holy paladins and frost mages are some of the most common classes for arena.

Unless I am terribly misinformed diminishing returns is 15 seconds. So a paladin who bubbles and is unfearable for 12 seconds is going to come very close to get of diminishing returns anyway. Additionally if casting fear on a second target reset diminishing returns on the first target my 2v2 with a resto druid is going to be mighty interesting. With cycloning one player for 6 seconds then cycloning the other for 6 seconds and rinse repeat.