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Old 06/13/07, 3:13 PM   #1
tristantio
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Simple solution for resilience, paralelling it to Blessed Life. Overpowered though?

Many people complain about resilience not affecting DoTs and other non-crit damage. Some argue that resilience is just to stop spike damage in the form of crits, while others argue it's supposed to slow down PvP combat in general.

I think a very real solution to the "problem" is just to rework resilience to be equal to the paladin talent Blessed Life (which is a 10% chance to reduce damage taken by 50%).

Converted it could look like this:
Old: 1% reduced chance to be crit, 2% reduced damage from crits.
New: 1% chance to take 48% damage from an attack. (That covers both aspects, the increased mitigation when it occurs and the proc rate/occurence).

Old: 5% reduced chance to be crit, 10% reduced damage from crits.
New: 5% chance to take 40% damage from an attack.

Old: 10% reduced chance to be crit, 20% reduced damage from crits.
New: 10% chance to take 30% damage from an attack.

In regards to DoTs it could perform the check per tick of the DoT (I believe resistance works like this currently for partial resists). If the check was done at the start of the DoT and persisted through it, the DoT class could simply recast the DoT as soon as they saw it was a reduced damage DoT. Performing the check on each tick means that this wouldn't occur.

Also the effect could be calculated after all other modifiers, so if an attack would have crit, and this new resilience went into effect, it would effectively cancel out the previous crit plus a little extra.

What are other thoughts/opinions?

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Old 06/13/07, 3:17 PM   #2
Vitae
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Black Dragonflight
As one of the 'resilience is for spike damage' proponents, I'd completely disagree with that form of it. It'd reopen the possibilities of getting two shot by certain combos, since there is a potential for 0% reduction on heavy crits, rather than the current guarantee.

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Old 06/13/07, 3:19 PM   #3
Estiarti
 
 
Part of the major attraction of resilience is it's consistency. The % reduction to being crit isn't nearly as important as the passive reduction to crit damage. The current system dramatically reduces "lucky" spike damage. By not only reducing your chance to be crit, but if you are crit you will always take x% less damage from that crit.

The system you are suggesting would leave room for "luck" in the form of crits getting through completely unmitigated and thus 1 or 2 shotting someone even with 10k health.

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Old 06/13/07, 3:20 PM   #4
tristantio
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Initially I was going to post with it having the chance to take half damage (Similar to canceling out a crit, but would also work on non-crit attacks) and having the permanent crit reduction bonus, however I felt that this would still give the people who feel that it's imbalanced against DoT's another footing to stand on in their complaints about DoT inequality.

Although, it could be:
10% chance to take half damage, 20% damage reduced from all attacks.

Although that seems sorta over powered.

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Old 06/13/07, 3:26 PM   #5
Vontre
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Vontre
Gnome Mage
 
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Resilience imbalance is very real and the people who think this is an unintended consequence of the system are fooling themselves. It must be intended that resilience impact certain classes more than others, as it was obvious from day one what spells/classes this stat would affect most, that's why they aren't really scaling it up further in season 2. Ice mages and rogues, without the presence of resilience to significantly impact those classes, are brutally overpowered. Resilience has reached a point of balance, what's left is the potential for individual class re-balancing and tweaking. What sucks is that pve-ers without resilience gear are getting a less balanced version of the game than top-geared players are, but if given the option I'd prefer balancing for the high end rather than the low end, which we seem to have pretty close at the moment.

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Old 06/13/07, 3:28 PM   #6
Estiarti
 
 
Thinking about the difficulty of reducing DOT damage as well as spike damage with resilience I believe you can see why Blizzard opted to go for flattening spike damage instead of covering all damage with resilience.

If you were to change the stat to somehow mitigate non-crit damage you run the risk of unbalancing PVE encounters. Right now your guilds MT can become uncrittable, but raids are designed around that being the case, so the non-crit damage the boss deals is sufficiently high to still give a sense of urgency for healing etc. If you had another stat that significantly reduced the normal damage dealt to a player, tanks could now stack that stat instead of dodge / parry and end up with a much more manageable steady stream of damage which very likely would trivialize many end game encounters.

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Old 06/13/07, 3:32 PM   #7
 Bass
PROCRASTINATE
 
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Mordant
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I'd shape resilience in a more general fashion to counteract other classes' forms of damage.

Something along the lines of:
100 resilience - Any damage taken over 6000 (or other arbitrary value) in a period of 3 seconds after the first hit (or other arbitrary value) is ignored.

The numbers are interchangeable. But you see what I'm getting at, don't you?

Last edited by Bass : 06/13/07 at 3:33 PM. Reason: added in "after the first hit"

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Old 06/13/07, 3:57 PM   #8
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I'm fine with the current form of resilience minus the DoT issues, would rather see them make it either ineffective to stack to 350+, or make it so in order to reach the higher numbers, you have to actually lose something in the process.

Making it a percentage chance to reduce damage or making it only work after X damage within Y seconds would be a rather silly change, all you'd end up with is classes that purposely delay damage for the effect to wear off, or you get unlucky and it doesn't proc 5 times in a row.

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Old 06/13/07, 4:19 PM   #9
Kazanir
Mr. Sandman
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Vontre, let me clarify your argument in more general terms. You're saying that since burst-damage is more overpowered in PvP than elsewhere, that a stat, resilience, was introduced specifically to artificially reduce the power of classes that have high burst damage (e.g. rogues, mages, warriors.) You're arguing that resilience not mitigating DoTs and so on is 100% intended and a good design choice, since resilience is designed to balance out the inherent advantage that a burst-damage class has over a non-burst damage class in PvP. Right?

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Old 06/13/07, 4:30 PM   #10
tristantio
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Kazanir View Post
Vontre, let me clarify your argument in more general terms. You're saying that since burst-damage is more overpowered in PvP than elsewhere, that a stat, resilience, was introduced specifically to artificially reduce the power of classes that have high burst damage (e.g. rogues, mages, warriors.) You're arguing that resilience not mitigating DoTs and so on is 100% intended and a good design choice, since resilience is designed to balance out the inherent advantage that a burst-damage class has over a non-burst damage class in PvP. Right?
I'm pretty sure that's correct.

Anyways, the point of my post is to illustrate one possible solution, but also point out that it's a little bit ridiculous to state "I'm fine with resilience, except it's effects on DoTs". Resilience either needs to affect non-crit damage, or it doesn't need to, however it does not need to specifically affect DoTs, since DoTs are no different than other sustained non-crit damage.

Warlocks and shadow priests have always been powerful PvP contenders, well before resilience, in fact DoT scaling was already reduced once as a result.

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Old 06/13/07, 4:34 PM   #11
asur2
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Dragonmaw
There is no other sustained non-crit damage in the game though.

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Old 06/13/07, 4:42 PM   #12
Ignayshus
Piston Honda
 
Human Priest
 
Bleeding Hollow
Originally Posted by asur2 View Post
There is no other sustained non-crit damage in the game though.
Unless you count poisons and bleed effects.

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Old 06/13/07, 4:48 PM   #13
asur2
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Ignayshus View Post
Unless you count poisons and bleed effects.
Which are all dots, is there really anything you can compare this to as I really can't think of anything that can't crit that isn't some type of dot.

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Old 06/13/07, 4:48 PM   #14
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by tristantio View Post
I'm pretty sure that's correct.

Anyways, the point of my post is to illustrate one possible solution, but also point out that it's a little bit ridiculous to state "I'm fine with resilience, except it's effects on DoTs". Resilience either needs to affect non-crit damage, or it doesn't need to, however it does not need to specifically affect DoTs, since DoTs are no different than other sustained non-crit damage.

Warlocks and shadow priests have always been powerful PvP contenders, well before resilience, in fact DoT scaling was already reduced once as a result.
You can't compare sustained non-crit damage to DoTs, one can be prevented through CC/LoS the other cannot, curing isn't a very good solution since they can be reapplied and you have to worry about spells like UA along with actually healing the person so they don't die from nukes.

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Old 06/13/07, 4:48 PM   #15
Bibdy
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Orc Warlock
 
Bonechewer
Consistancy, good.

Getting !@#$ed over by bad luck, bad.

Last edited by Bibdy : 06/13/07 at 4:49 PM. Reason: i r typo

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