yesss

well, most of people forgot one important thing about 33\28\0 (or even better specc like 41\11+\0) pom pyro with full s3 gear + active trinket ( +150 or + 210 dmg ) =around +1160 dmg at time when pyro hits, and thats ~ 4.6k+ HIT, instant, can be made from 41 yd, and usualy target already fully dispelled(if priest\shaman in your team know how to play) and have 2+ scorch debuff, that kind of damage ( +elem sham + rog +sp dmg) impossible to outheal.
atm only 1 prob-we don't have iceblock in that specc, but after patch...

 

Jacktwok

This burst is not impossible to outheal. I really wish people would stop pushing that notion.

 

Falcore

Do you consider how relatively useless you become after that PoM/Pyro is gone? Not to mention that for you, going into an iceblock throws up a huge red flag that screams "Kill me next please!".

 

jogjog

Actually, I'm really hesitating about meta-gems for pvp: MSD and his internal CD isn't very good for pvp imho, CSD is a little anti-resi. gem but huh is it really good?

 

DJNW

Speaking of immunity moves/whatever - a shatter combo will only have one of it's 'packets' of damage eaten by a spellreflect/grounding totem - it's crackin' that you can tip out an UberInstaPyro, but conversely, you're increasing the risk to yourself on a reflect, and the waste if it is harmlessly dissipated.

 

greyberger

A frost mage can appear to be fire before the match has started in earnest, simply by not putting up Ice Barrier. There's nothing a POM pyro mage can do to convince the opposing team he's anything other than pom pyro. even going invis these days won't help, unless the chance of surprising them is worth neglecting to buff your team.

Unless your team is rushing theirs out the gate, they have plenty of time to decide how to deal with the 4k burst.

 

Jacktwok

I used to do this before I got into a higher rated bracket. At 1900 or so I noticed I'd see a lot of teams over again and while they wouldn't know I was frost the first time they would every time after that. It became my experience that really it was better to throw on ice barrier when it cost no mana than try to surprise teams into "omg he's not fire".

 

Cwealm

Sorry if this is a known bug, but is frostbite broken?

Additionally, I have a long QQ about how much BS mana burning is for the relative cost if anyone is interested.

 

• frmorrison

MSD is the best gem for a dps caster in PvP, even with cooldown. CSD isn't good, because of the current (soon to removed) requirement of just 2 blue gems. Even when it is removed, MSD is better.

 

Calantus

Why is just 2 blue gems a bad requirement?

 

BrTarolg

I think its because if you have MSD, its a super fast evocation later into the match when you really need it, but at the beginning of the match its also a bit of extra burst (it's actually a frostbolt which you can cast whilst being under pressure)

 

Maligne

It's not in and of itself, but a lot of people already had far more than just 2 blues. So to use CSD (like I did) you have to rework a lot of your gems.

After the change to CSD I'd rate them about equal for frost mages. Again it somewhat depends on what kind of team you're on. The overwhelming majority of the time I never get focused which makes me the main damage dealer in my 3v3. So far I've only gotten to play around 10 games but I'm happy with CSD in this role. Crits are the bread and butter of frost mages and 3% over the course of a match is huge. Now, those times that I have a warrior harassing me yeah, I'd probably wish it was an MSD but like I said, that doesn't happen very often.

Edit: re: evocation - in 3v3 I evocate about once every 15 matches. Maybe it's the kind of team I'm on but that's not very often. Certainly not worth basing a meta gem selection on.

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

 

yesss

Yes.
After 1 player in other team dead, usualy its doesn't realy matter what you are doing..few more sheeps\cs's etc..and fight is over.
and...about No. MSD is best in many situations...exept few ones... like when you are getting heavily focused and can throw only ice lance's...this happens very often if you are playing in team restor sham\holy pala\warr\demo lock\frost mage...(you don't need msd here because if you stop running from warrior you can die, and no you can't sheep\cc him, because there is alot of teams running priest\ele sham\pala\lock\mage, and priest usualy only doing 1 thing-dispelling you, warrior and mana burning.)
atm i'm using msd(pve reasons + csd req 2 blue gems atm) and t6 head (reason: +hit), in s3 head i will insert CSD for sure.
p.s. sorry for my english

 

Vermis

Well you all should have seen what happened in ESL-final first game where Oh noes tried ap pom pyro to get 1 fast down even as ecilam was elemental he survived and that ap was very fastly beaten. With iceblock the burst just doesnt cut it with so many setups using loads of things that can prevent it. ie pain supression, bop to remove ms etc.
The dmg just isnt high enough to be next 3min useless. Not with/without ib. Resilience has made ap totally worthless in 3v3 and 5v5 it could work in 2v2 dunno I rarely play that bracket. At the end of the day crackling hands just call tons of cc towards you.

As said earlier in this topic there isnt anything that can prove not being specced as ap unlike frost. All the defensive cababilites that are in arc/fire wont cut it. I really doubt that any team will allow mage use ap twice in a game. Its still way too easily played out of the game since its one time buff every 3min and thats that. Compare it to shatter which can be used every 30s or so + elemental and novas.

Beating a dead horse but still...

 

yesss

so don't use ap\pyro until target have <30-40% hp ?

 

macbeet

Frostbolt + Icelance + Shatter Combo can be eaten by a single Totem, because the Totem in not consumed, when the Frostbolt is in the air - same reason Shatter is not consumed. Makes me a sad Panda when I am careless and forget check for the trap.
Don't know for spell reflect but I assume the same holds true. However a reflected Frostbolt+Icelance will not shatter on you, so it is much more forgiving than a reflected Pyro...

 

Maligne

I had a frostbolt and lance both reflected from a warrior yesterday, so yes, it behaves the same as a grounding totem.

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

 

radikal

I think WE is going to continue to be the "strongest" overall arena spec as it can compete at the highest level in any bracket. DB and 21/40 seem like they have solid potential, but are definitely more situational on the bracket and team composition. I right now lean towards 21/40 over 33/28 type of builds in anything but mage/rogue 2s probably.

It will be interesting to see 21/40 PMR mages Combust PI POM Pyroing people for a billion, but you really are extremely squishy in mirror match type fights like this with no "good" burn target. DB on the other hand is hard to appreciate -- the spec has pretty poor burst and mediocre chain casting damage, but gets some good CC and therefore survivability with DB, who knows right now. ^^

The other thing is that, as WE, you can stack dmg much more aggressively than as fire where you're going to likely need a bit more resil/stam, particularly in 3s and completely in 5s.

On the subject of "pretending" to be fire by using MA and no barrier: Does anyone else feel that the Detect Magic change has inevitably forced them to run Ice Armor instead of MA as WE way more often?

 

Maligne

Not really, but armor management is admittedly one of the weakest parts of my game right now. I usually fire-and-forget, only changing if I see a warrior. Also too many times yesterday I'd have a pet, warrior, or rogue beating the hell out of me and finally realize that IA had been dispelled a long time ago. Something I need to work on. On the other hand I'm really good at managing dampen/amplify. If I see two physical DPSers I throw amp on the team and (I think) it helps quite a bit.

One good thing about the public buffs change is you can instantly see a number of important things regarding druids and warlocks. This I think outweighs the MA/IA impact of it.

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

 

Samanoske

Does anyone know for sure whether or not Arcane Focus counters the priest talent Unbreakable Will? If it does, I definitely plan on picking it up in my 14/0/44 build. I've heard people say it does, and others say it doesn't. Is there any evidence to prove that it does / does not? If it doesn't, I'm probably going to try a 0/5/56 build, or something like that, because I really feel like imp CS isn't worth it anymore. :>

 

greyberger

I've been playing w/ a full frost, no imp. counterspell build lately, and i have to say improved counterspell is one of those things you don't know how much you miss it until it's gone. Against a team like priest/warlock/mage, there's a chance i'll CS any of those three targets, and they all have cross-spec schools of magic i'd rather not have them casting during the interrupt effect. Even if you never whiff a counterspell, or never fall for a healer faking a hardcast, the silence effect can be useful in and of itself. It stuffs NS heals preemptively and gives you time to line up a sheep on the silenced target, which in burst teams can often win you the game.

Of course the deep frost talents you pick up by abandoning the arcane tree are far superior to clearcasting, uninterrupted missiles, etc. Impact and the tier 2 upgrades to fire blast, however, i'm disappointed with. Ice armor is still the buff of choice for kiting/surviving a rogue or warrior, and so you're looking at some fairly minor buffs to a spell you can only cast when bursting due to its prohibitive mana cost.

Is imp. counterspell better than the 17 talent points you save for the frost tree? If it is, will it still be better when IV is patched in and frostbite becomes a more attractive and synergistic talent?

 

Maligne

Yes. And you'll have frostbite and IV even if you get improved counterspell, so yes to the second question.

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

 

Vailin

Hi all!

Registered here to hopefuly get away from the WoW forum madness and missinformation...

First I'd like to say that I'm that great at pvp (Hovering around 1650 in 2s as a frost mage) Hoping to pick up some tips here to improve my game though. I read this whole thread and have a few questions:

1. Armour management. Possibly a noob question, but what rank of armour should I use? I'm thinking of writing a macro to use max rank if out of combat but rank 1 if in combat under the impression that the on hit effect of the armour remains roughly the same all the way through the ranks. Is this a good idea?

2. WE burst. I group with a mace spec rogue and I have a lot of difficulty pinning the target down for a burst. Mainly because I always have some focus on me and dont have time to power up a bolt. Are there any reliable macros I could use to execute this more accurately? As the fight with my rogue goes the target is constantly moving and the rogue is constantly critting making nova stick extremly hard. Can I make WE nova on mouseover?

3. My role in 2v2. Should I be doing dammage if im left alone or CC? Should I focus the healer even if it will take forever for the rogue to take down the dps (some heals could slip through)?

4. Pets. Should pets be killed or ignored? Hunter pets take too long to kill and doesent seem worth it, but lock pets and the WEs look like good targets for a quick burst down. My partner thinks killing any pets is a waste of time, but with a fell puppy on me I cant do anything...

5. 1v1. There comes a time when my partner is down and we managed to take 1 down as well. My survival rate in the insuing 1v1 is about 20%. No matter what class it is they seem to be able to take me down as I usually run out of mana 70% of the time. I can take out other mages and thats about 50/50, but all other classes (even mana ones) seem to have the upper hand. Are there any tricks I could do? Should I be stopping to cast bolts at all? I seem to do ok in duels when you know whats coming, but in arena I really suck.

As for next patch and trainable ice block. Regarding frost's survivability, what about deep fire (not pom pyro) or elemental spec? I was hoping to try it out as scorch seems to be much nicer than frost bolt for dammage (and you can still pop FB rank1. I'm at work so cant spec out the build properly (game sites blocked - except this one heh), but was hoping to make something with ice barrier and blazing speed, although I have a feeling that may not be possible. What do you think? ele spec viable as deep frost contender? You wont have the elemental burst, but you have much more instants.

 

kelben

Quick question - should I be going for the silk pvp gear or the dreadweave pvp gear... I arena as a deep ice mage - and I'm honestly conflicted if they extra stamina and resil is worth the loss of crit? I have asked around and I get conflicting reports from different mage buddies.

 

• alcaras

You should go for Silk, unless you are undergeared and sorely need the survivability. (e.g. When I was gearing up my freshly 70 mage, I got S2 Dreadweave and am now working on S3 Silk)

The reason is you need crit to counteract resilience.