Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Player vs. Player

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/19/08, 4:09 AM   #501
Jacktwok
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by wotanisi View Post
Hey, I am currently just doing 2s for fun with a ret pally. However, I am starting to like the comp and I am now thinking of perhaps playing with a serious intent to get to higher ratings. Most teams we don't have that much trouble on. However, I have noticed that we have a much harder time whenever there is a warlock in the opposing team. Other than our trinkets, we have to blow long cooldowns to get out of fears.

My question mainly pertains to warlock + healer as any other double dps combo we usually get onto the warlock. With SL and healing, we have a very hard time trying to burst a warlock down. However, whenever we get onto the healer the warlock fears us all over the place. I try to cc the warlock but fel hunter + dispells on healers usually make this only delay the inevitable fear (druid healers aren't so bad in this respect).

Another situation I saw was with healer+hunter (mostly druid) teams. I try to get a sheep on the hunter but the pet + silencing shot + scatter makes it a good 10 secs before it goes off and then trinkets makes it another few seconds before the second one is applied. Would it be a good idea to burst the pet down first?
In regards to lock teams, you're going to simply have to get lucky in order to win. Right now locks are a supreme counter to mages. Between pet pushback, spell lock, fear, drain life, siphon life and dots ticking on you there is just very little you can do to beat one.

There are things you can do such as make sure you have a CS ready for drain life or fear and to make sure you ice block dots off quickly but the odds are stacked against you

Offline
Old 03/19/08, 7:26 AM   #502
Dappa
Hardcore Orc
 
Dappa's Avatar
 
Orc Warlock
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Originally Posted by wotanisi View Post
Hey, I am currently just doing 2s for fun with a ret pally. However, I am starting to like the comp and I am now thinking of perhaps playing with a serious intent to get to higher ratings. Most teams we don't have that much trouble on. However, I have noticed that we have a much harder time whenever there is a warlock in the opposing team. Other than our trinkets, we have to blow long cooldowns to get out of fears.

My question mainly pertains to warlock + healer as any other double dps combo we usually get onto the warlock. With SL and healing, we have a very hard time trying to burst a warlock down. However, whenever we get onto the healer the warlock fears us all over the place. I try to cc the warlock but fel hunter + dispells on healers usually make this only delay the inevitable fear (druid healers aren't so bad in this respect).

Another situation I saw was with healer+hunter (mostly druid) teams. I try to get a sheep on the hunter but the pet + silencing shot + scatter makes it a good 10 secs before it goes off and then trinkets makes it another few seconds before the second one is applied. Would it be a good idea to burst the pet down first?
With warlock+healer, have you tried having the paladin attack the felhunter while you attack the warlock? Let the paladin cleanse dots between swings and get that felhunter down asap. When the felhunter is dead, the warlock is probably going to summon Voidwalker. Switch targets and start dpsing the voidwalker and let the paladin attack the warlock. Only use instant attacks when felhunter is alive so your frost tree doesnt get disabled, or use scortch to lure a CS. Voidwalker shouldn't be hard to bring down as he has zero resistance and resilience.

Offline
Old 03/19/08, 4:12 PM   #503
Juli
Don Flamenco
 
Juli's Avatar
 
Undead Priest
 
Executus
After the felhunter dies you can also CS or HOJ or repentance the fel dom summon and spellsteal the buff off during the school lockout. You can also just chain the CS/HOJ/repent/arcane torrent(if horde) back to back so that the buff expires - it's a 15 second duration. You can also even interrupt it then sheep the lock, especially if youre playing against druid/lock where they have no dispel with the felhunter dead to run down 10 sec off the buff. The cast is fast but with a little practice, some anticipation, and a good ping it can be done. I use an addon that displays an alert in the middle of my screen when someone has the feldom buff, with a timer for the duration, that makes it a lot easier to notice and execute.

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 7:03 AM   #504
Jacktwok
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Uldum
You're not going to get a fel hunter down at decent ratings without MS from only a ret pallys DPS. The druid while free will simply heal it and CC one of you. Meanwhile any smart lock is going to have you dotted up and he's going to pillar hump any of your spells other than instants.

If its not a druid and a priest splitting DPS is horrible as its going to bounce prayer of mending like crazy. Pally may have a harder time healing it since he can be CSed if he casts but he can also bubble and bop the pet. Shaman will probably be the easiest to pull this off against but even if you get the pet down your still going to be outhealed. If your pally has to use a lot of mana healing he can't DPS.

Your best course of action against druid teams is to try your best to burst down the druid ASAP then reset the fight and take down the lock without a healer. You won't accomplish it often but I've found its your best course of action. Against every other healer I'd dps the lock very hard while sheeping and CSing the healer. Its going to be tough to kill the warlock in that time frame but its also your best bet.

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 5:14 PM   #505
Dappa
Hardcore Orc
 
Dappa's Avatar
 
Orc Warlock
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Well technically, the mage will provide 20% of the damage through Soul Link. The warlock won't have any considerable damage to apply while pillarhumping as both the paladin and mage can decurse and cleanse whatever the warlock applies. The key is to keep the warlock "rooted" with frost novas long enough to apply enough damage to the warlock so the pet doesnt get enough healing. Use Ice Lance -- Frost Nova combos aggressively, with Scortch as casting damage to avoid spell-lock in frost tree. Paladin can contribute to avoid pillar humping with Hammer of Justice on the warlock.

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 6:40 PM   #506
Vermis
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Problem is sl/sl with some pve gear, like void star talisman. That makes the felpuppy allmost unkillable for a mage. Thus rendering mage even more useless against setups which contain sl/sl locks

Offline
Old 03/22/08, 1:19 PM   #507
Madraven
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Medivh
Overall Best PvP Mage build

Hi,

i started to read this thread looking for the best PvP build but since there are so many pages i was wondering if u guys could let me know which one u think would work best or at least tell me where to look.

Offline
Old 03/22/08, 1:54 PM   #508
hypetech
Don Flamenco
 
hypetech's Avatar
 
Draenei Mage
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Madraven View Post
Hi,

i started to read this thread looking for the best PvP build but since there are so many pages i was wondering if u guys could let me know which one u think would work best or at least tell me where to look.
Where to look? Check out this thread, lots of info about mage pvp [Mage] The PVP Thread


Offline
Old 03/24/08, 12:28 PM   #509
Jacktwok
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by Dappa View Post
Well technically, the mage will provide 20% of the damage through Soul Link. The warlock won't have any considerable damage to apply while pillarhumping as both the paladin and mage can decurse and cleanse whatever the warlock applies. The key is to keep the warlock "rooted" with frost novas long enough to apply enough damage to the warlock so the pet doesnt get enough healing. Use Ice Lance -- Frost Nova combos aggressively, with Scortch as casting damage to avoid spell-lock in frost tree. Paladin can contribute to avoid pillar humping with Hammer of Justice on the warlock.
20% of an already reduced damage output on the pet is pretty worthless. You can't get away with using your mana at 100% the usual rate only to get 20% of the usual damage on your target. Mages have severe mana issues in arena as it is. As far as removing whatever the lock applies, yes you can do that - but then how are you going to do dmg? Global cooldowns are a huge issue in arena, and if you're wasting mana on decursing then you're not casting. Also, if your ret pally is cleansing then he's not DPSing. Meanwhile you can only cleanse one thing at a time and SL/SL locks will have agony (or tounges), corruption, siphon life, and shadow embrace on you at one time. They may also get up imolate or may start draining your mana or life.

Keeping a warlock with a paladin rooted is pretty much impossible. Freedom will be applied. With other healers its more likely, but you will see a larger than usual number of resists due to their talents. Also, if they're stuck in line of sight you can bet good money that they're going to fear you.

There is a reason that mages are at 8.7% of expected representation in upper level arena and that is because of how easily they are handled by locks and to a (relatively) lesser extent by rogues. If we could play warriors all day we'd do wonderfully, but beating a competent (and by competent I mean breathing) sl/sl lock consistently in 2v2 will simply not happen the way the mechanics are currently.

Offline
Old 03/27/08, 3:48 PM   #510
frzphnx
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Shandris
Since 2.4 hit, I'm just wondering how

1) The loss of the blink CD reduction in favor of the poly cast bonus matters, if at all. (Personally I blink a lot more than I poly)
and
2) The changes to MSD, while making people cry "nerf " actually changes mages decision process in meta selection. I'm looking at CSD now*, but with haste affecting GCD, doesn't the MSD now allow you to fire more instants faster?

*Not sure if the CSD is the way to go though, if MSD is indeed untenable.

Offline
Old 03/27/08, 3:52 PM   #511
Cwealm
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Eitrigg
I think I am just going to go back to the powerful earthstorm.

Offline
Old 03/28/08, 1:22 AM   #512
cryek
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
Jaedenar
I went back to CSD. MSD, in my opinion, is now dead: the focus buff is so short-lived and such a minor benefit that I can't see it opening up any options or making a difference in a match. Used to be, when you got a focus proc it was a potentially game-changing event; you could land a poly on a rogue hammering you, could plant your feet for 1 second and change to get off a shatter combo, or could blink away from the fracas for a 4-second evocate.

CSD adds several hundred damage to your shatter combos, paticuarily if both the ice lance and frostbolt crit. It's a significant bonus, but I think many of us will still miss the MSD of last patch (or even better, several patches ago).

Offline
Old 03/28/08, 9:36 AM   #513
Jacktwok
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Uldum
I can't think of the name off the top of my head, but there is a meta you get from the Bashir's landing event in Blades Edge which has 14+ dmg and 5% stun resist. Its probably a good choice. I find myself eternally tanking in 3s now and while not so much in fives the stun resist can win a game.

The CSD will probably add 100-200 dmg on a shatter combo which isn't bad but its not really great either. Really the meta choices now are all underwhelming and you should probably just go with one based on your playstyle.

Offline
Old 03/29/08, 8:42 PM   #514
Fabulous Muscles
Glass Joe
 
Fabulous Muscles's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Jacktwok View Post
Really the meta choices now are all underwhelming and you should probably just go with one based on your playstyle.
I couldn't agree more. I really have no idea whether or not to replace my meta or try out something new. Nothing out there really catches my eye. Also, Jacktwok, what quest or event in Blade's Edge Mountains were you talking about that awards that gem?

Offline
Old 03/29/08, 10:12 PM   #515
doogless
Don Flamenco
 
doogless's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Fabulous Muscles View Post
I couldn't agree more. I really have no idea whether or not to replace my meta or try out something new. Nothing out there really catches my eye. Also, Jacktwok, what quest or event in Blade's Edge Mountains were you talking about that awards that gem?
There's some good information on the event in the comments here - Assault on Bash'ir Landing! - Quests - World of Warcraft

I have yet to do it myself, so I can't give personal feedback on the event. I plan to gather enough shards for 4 or 5 metas, as I don't want to have to do the event more than once.

Offline
Old 03/30/08, 3:26 PM   #516
Fabulous Muscles
Glass Joe
 
Fabulous Muscles's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Here's the new meta gem that came out in 2.4 Ember Skyfire Diamond. The pattern for this gem is available for purchase on the Isle of Quel'Danas from Eldara Dawnrunner, the Shattered Sun quartermaster, once you hit revered with the Shattered Sun faction.

So, since MSD is essentially dead it now comes down to
Chaotic Skyfire Diamond Vs. Ember Skyfire Diamond

Last edited by Fabulous Muscles : 03/30/08 at 6:59 PM.

Offline
Old 03/31/08, 6:16 AM   #517
tgbrown7
Banned
 
Human Mage
 
Kil'Jaeden
Does anyone have a good focus macro for sheeping in pvp? THe one i have now is OK but ideally I want one that sheeps my focus, or if I dont have one just sheeps the person I am targeting. Any have suggestions for what works best for them?

Offline
Old 03/31/08, 10:13 AM   #518
Maligne
Mash in B
 
Maligne's Avatar
 
Clarence
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by tgbrown7 View Post
Does anyone have a good focus macro for sheeping in pvp? THe one i have now is OK but ideally I want one that sheeps my focus, or if I dont have one just sheeps the person I am targeting. Any have suggestions for what works best for them?
#showtooltip Polymorph
/cast [target=focus, exists] Polymorph(Rank 1); Polymorph(Rank 1)

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

United States Online
Old 04/01/08, 8:14 AM   #519
Taja
Piston Honda
 
Taja's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Talnivarr (EU)
I'd go with 2 different buttons for sheeps. How often do you play arena without a focus target up anyway. I'm actually quite happy with the change from -2 sec blink to 0.15 to poly. Although still not the greatest bonus out there its very doable getting poly's off now while being focussed. IV and poly early game is quite powerfull. I still try to blink as little as possible since it remains a mana hog.

Offline
Old 04/04/08, 5:22 PM   #520
MicK412
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
Have any other mages found any success with a 33/28 build since 2.4? (see profile for talent placement)

I plan on giving it a shot in my arena games this week, but was curious to hear from any other mages playing 1850+ level in 3s or 5s their experiences so far. I have high hopes that it will provide better survivabilty against the 2 melee and cleave teams I face alot in 3s (as RMP) and 5s (as W/H/M/P/Pal), and was struggling against as 17/0/44 (by being trained almost nonstop). Offensively, with full S3 gear and 4crit/5dam gems I've got my scorch/fireblast sitting near a 40% crit rate. Knowing firsthand how difficult it always has been to cast frostbolts against competent teams, scorch with 70% pushback resistance seems like a more feasible damage option (ace in the whole of course being AP/POM/Pyro).

Drawbacks to this spec off the top of my head:
1) Molten armor is really expensive to recast (and will most likely chain dispelled against most teams). Big issue.
2) No W/E. I'm not sure how big this will be, as usually it is killed quickly against most good teams and usually can only be counted on for one nova each time.
3) Only one big burst option a game. Not that big of a deal I think, as before shatter combos were few and far between anyway. POM/Pyro is more consistent burst.
4) One iceblock. Big issue.
5) No ice barrier. Marginal problem at best, often dispelled however still very useful when up.

Thoughts?

Offline
Old 04/05/08, 2:29 AM   #521
Vermis
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Now that we've been playing on tr more I would say there isnt much outside having Water Elemental. Specially with the lack of spell penetration gear lock teams really need that burst and dragging them to situation where it can be executed is pain in the ass. But to the point, I just cant see how any fire spec would reign in 3s, saw some fire mage in 5s playing with 2345 but we countered that quite easily as well. The extra control and potential dmg mage loses if he hasnt got elemental is just too much. There allways will be those fire freaks who vouch in the name of burning soul, well that helps only against pets. Tanking warrior/rogue//insert any class that deals tons of dmg and interrupts) isnt viable to begin with.

Before abandoning the idea just try for a while. It has huge draw back and as I see it you cant make to top 10 with that kind of spec. All arent even trying to achieve top places and it is fun to play.

Offline
Old 04/05/08, 5:37 AM   #522
Friccs
Von Kaiser
 
Friccs's Avatar
 
Gnome Mage
 
Madmortem (EU)
Hey, have you thought about an Elemental Specc?
I think against Rogues and Warriors it would be an alternative for you.
- short cast time
- shatter
- icebarrier
- coldsnap
- blazing speed
- impact

and - yes - i know the big CS Issue =/

Give a man a fire and he is warm for the day, but set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life.

~Terry Pratchett~

Offline
Old 04/05/08, 2:26 PM   #523
Inoko
Piston Honda
 
Inoko's Avatar
 
Goblin Mage
 
Zul'Jin
To be honest, as 17/0/44 your job is either to burst really hard early game, or wait for a chance for that "one nova" from the pet to kill someone. The issue with attempting to stand and nuke, even with 70% pushback resistance is going to be the incoming damage, the spell pushback (it wont be so prevalent, but just take polymorph as an example. 50% from gloves and I always see red on my cast time.) and the lack of survivability talents. Further, because PoM Pyro is... by and large useless (Please, just admit it. The damage on Pyro isn't so high non-crit that it's really better than that fireball, and against heavy resilience that 40% crit rate is closer to 28%, or 3/10 times.

You also don't get any of the really good fire survivability talents (Blazing Speed helps to mitigate the kiting power you lose via frost armour/frostbite, and Dragon's Breath is a really awesome close quarters interrupt for finishing that healer off/running away) and you're left with somewhat... sub par... arcane talents.

Your primary nuke is scorch, a low DPS, low damage, low DPM spell, and you can fall back on... arcane missiles, a high mana spell that's by and large useless because it's channeled. (Hello locked out arcane tree!)

Honestly, I can't say it's going to be super successful, and that's despite being one of the biggest fire fans I know. (I hate frost. I hate the arena play style we have to adapt. But I hate losing more.)

Oh, and one last point. There's a conception out there that A) PoMPyro builds do a lot of damage and B) that they're super squishy. When you combine the two, you're just going to get the pain train harder.

Offline
Old 04/07/08, 5:44 AM   #524
Jacktwok
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Uldum
I've been playing some BGs as 33/28 tonight and I will say this: I'm dying to try it with my rogue partner in 2s. Some of the damage I'm seeing fly is frankly disgusting and I can't wait to give it a go. The improvments to some of the talents are amazing.

Improved Blink is extremely good. It has a strong synergy with magic absorbtion and leads to a decent amount of mana return from resists.

Molten shields is awesome when it works but in many games molten armor will be gone quickly. Its a fun spec if nothing else. I'd never use it for my serious brackets but i may bust it out in 2s to have some fun while still being somewhat viable.

Offline
Old 04/07/08, 4:01 PM   #525
Tantelus
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
<TDC>
Mal'Ganis
Has anyone noticed an impact proc from molten armor using the molten shields talent? It doesn't seen to proc stuns despite hitting the target back with fire damage.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Player vs. Player

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mage PvP Thread (or: Ice Block, discuss) Vontre Player vs. Player 60 05/24/07 9:01 PM