Scandinavian

Are there any viable Arcane specs since Blizzard pretty much destroyed it back in January? I tried the 20/0/51 Frost spec and found it way too difficult to use as a laptop-touch pad player. I'm just getting into the Mage PvP scene after spending quite a bit of time raiding with my guild. (My PvE is just fine; it's my PvP that's lacking.)

I find Arcane to be a lot simpler than Frost; it's Arcane's ease of use that's drawn me to PvP. You can call me a bad Mage that needs to "L2P" all you want, but that won't make me think differently of Arcane. Right now I'm really curious if there is an Arcane spec out there that's still viable in Battlegrounds. I'm not quite ready to try Arena yet.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

 

Kermits-finger

I've never had any issues with Arcane in battlegrounds, as a matter of fact I won't use anything but arcane in battlegrounds... The standard 57/3/11 works just fine for me in the BG's, but I have been finding lately that arcane just doesn't have the survivability you need for arenas, unless you are an arcane god with an incredible team to back you up. Frost is definitely the way to go in the arenas... I have been trying to make arcane work on a 2v2 team with a ret paly and the highest we managed to get was in the 900's... It's mainly due to the fact that it's our first season in the arenas and my partner had never played ret, but has been speced prot for his entire time in WoW... Blah, I'm rambling...

First thing, if you are trying to do arenas using nothing but a laptop touchpad you are in for a world of disappointment, it’s just not possible to be mobile enough to be effective with a touchpad, I’m really surprised you can play at all with just a touchpad…

Arcane can work in the arenas, but you had better really know your stuff… You need to be incredibly mobile and have substantial burst potential, otherwise you are going to be really hard to keep alive.

You can look at my Arcane spec if you want, it's pretty generic but I have had a lot of success with it in the BG's..
The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Scandinavian

Thanks for the reply, Kermits-finger.

Currently I'm using the 57/3/11 PvE spec for raiding. I've done a bit of research and have come to the conclusion that the Slow spec for Arcane PvP is pretty much obsolete. Of course the people discussing this were also talking about Arena and not Battlegrounds. I'll have to try the 57/3/11 PvP spec before giving up on PvP entirely.

I'm not sure how I got this far with just a touch pad either. I guess it helps that I have long fingers? I've played WoW on a desktop with a keyboard and mouse, and it is much easier. Although my current housing situation only allows me to play on a laptop.

Again, thanks for the reply. I'll give your PvP spec a shot and come back with my results.

 

Kermits-finger

Something that is going to make arcane a lot easier is your macros, you can hit someone with an arcane barrage for a couple thousand damage, or you can burst them to near death in roughly the same amount of time with the prober macro sequence...

If I have made up my mind that I’m going to take someone out I have a very simple routine that I run through that about 90% of the time will kill them...

This is for a one on one encounter, or for a real burst in BG’s where you are most likely going to die in the next 10 seconds because everybody and their retarded cousin have you targeted because it’s easy to take out a squishy mage…

First thing I will do is hit them with an arcane barrage, good for a couple grand, or a 5 to 6 k crit if you get lucky.

Second thing is to open up with the F.U. Macro – the macro that I use is written as such, there may be more convenient ways to write the code but I have found that this way will always work without any glitches or hang-ups…

#showtooptip Arcane Blast
/use 13
/stopcasting
/use 14
/stopcasting
/cast Presence of Mind
/stopcasting
/cast Icy Veins
/stopcasting
/cast Arcane Blast

"I put in all the stopcastings because it seems to me that at times with heavy lags there have been instance where the full macro won't go off leaving me standing there buffed up like a god but doing nothing but staring at the guy coming at me like a mouth breathing knuckle-dragger waiting on a good pounding..."

What this is going to do, and you will have to modify it according to your current setup, will be to…

It is going to use both of your trinkets to get the spell power bonuses that they hopefully have, if you only have a spell power bonus on one of them then only use the “/use xx” command for whatever slot you have them equipped in. Another good trinket bonus to activate in one of those slots would be a haste bonus, because that is going to increase the amount of spells you can put out… After the trinkets pop you will cast presence of mind, which is going to make you next damaging spell an instant cast spell, which means you will be able to cast arcane blast while on the run… “big help here”… Next Icy Veins will become active, which reduces the cast time of your spells by 20%, and finally arcane blast will go off, with all the spell power bonuses and decreased casting times behind it…

After all that goes off I will either cast another arcane barrage or a missile barrage if it procs, followed as fast as I can by another arcane barrage and a fire blast… If by some miracle they are still standing use a frost nova to root them while you get a little distance and cast a regular arcane blast and another arcane barrage to finish them…

Arcane is all about burst damage, and I don’t believe there is another class that can come close to hitting arcanes burst potential “and don’t start arguing about shatter combos all you ice freaks, they are not going to hit for nearly as much nearly as fast…”

 

Tizzlewump

The amount of awful videos made by arcane mages is mind boggling but a notable exception is Steady - Rogue/Mage 2500+. No video is perfect but this one is very entertaining and has several helpful captions explaining strategy and game changers. I don't know if you'll find an arcane spec if you Armory the author but you might.

Kermit's macro looks like it is for human mages. Delete the /use 14 if you keep a pvp trinket in the bottom slot, or remove /use 13 if it's in the top slot. It also looks like it has a typo, I assume the pom is meant to be AP. If you've set up a good IV then you've set up a good AP and probably plan on slamming out a pve rotation. You can use pom for burst but you also want to be able to use it with poly now that all your other offensive cools get stacked with AP. Also remember that even if you pom/sheep you still have an arcane potency buff to spend on your next (possibly arcane powered) spell. So whether you do it with a [mod] conditional or two macros with two keybinds you'll want to be able to pom/sheep your target and your focus. There are lots of ways to do it, here's one:

#showtooltip Presence of Mind
/cast Presence of Mind
/cast Polymorph

#showtooltip Presence of Mind
/cast [target=focus,exists,nodead] Presence of Mind
/cast [target=focus,exists,nodead] Polymorph

If you can get away with hard casting your sheep and want to go for pom/AB, use the same rules as in pve. Hard cast as many ABs as you dare, then pom. AB-pom/AB-Abr hurts a lot for 2 seconds of casting.

 

Scandinavian

And all of this you dump into a single macro? I'm quite ignorant of how the whole macro thing works. I understand its importance in PvP, but I have no idea how it all works.

Nice name, too. :P

 

MatsT

Since over two years ago, the /stopcasting does nothing at all for this macro unless you want to interrupt the spells you are currently casting. The reason you sometimes gets all buffed up but the Arcane Blast doesn't go off is because you were moving while pressing the macro. There is no way to PoM AB with one click while running. You will either need to click it twice (spam it, bind it to mouse scroll, whatever) or stand still while pressing it.

 

Scandinavian

The 57/3/11 spec is turning out quite nice. I stand a better chance against melee classes than I did before.

Now, my next question is what kind of gems and enchants should I be putting on my PvP gear? I just bought the last piece to my Hateful set. I put some 9 spell power/8 resilience gems in most of the eligible sockets. But something tells me I'm doing it all wrong.

Advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Kermits-finger

No, it wasn't a typo, it was exactly what I meant it to be. I didn't mean to use it with poly because I was trying to pump out the max damage in the shortest amount of time possible. You can use Arcane Power instead of PoM but that means that you will be waiting on the Arcane Blast to cast instead of having it as an instant cast spell. I would rather have the Arcane blast go off as an instant, get the reduced cast time on the next two Arcane Blasts and then hopefully a missile barrage will proc and I can cut it with an arcane barrage... Having PoM set up with polymorph has nothing to do with max damage in the shortest amount of time, it's a control option, which isn't what I was talking about...


The Arcane Potency isn't a guaranteed crit, it increases your crit chance by 30%. For max damage output I have better luck with using the Icy Veins in the macro, after the 20 second cooldown that PoM shares with Arcane Power is up I have another macro that links Arcane Power with Arcane Barrage for another instant cast spell that is going to up the damage once again... I have never understood wasting PoM on poly, the cast time on poly is so short anyway that if you are paying attention to other casters you should be able to get it off before them anyway... Why waste the instant burst potential on a control option that is fast enough as it is?

 

Kermits-finger

I will admit that I didn't believe you and actuall went and checked that you couldn't cast AB while moving with PoM, I feel like such a tard, all the freakin problems I have been having were because of that... Guess you learn something new every day, thanks for the tip...

 

Akraat

I would say that PvP video posted, Steady, is the perfect example of how arcane mage must be played (must due to if you don't, you are kinda playing a bad frost spec). It is all about waiting for oppurtunities to burst, and creating the edge to take that kill.

For gear choices, you want to keep a good balance between haste and damage. You don't want to be hitting like a wet towel, but you dont want to be a grandparent by the time you finish casting. Try to scale haste and spellpower as your gear level increases. Resilience should be fine at around 500, less if your playstyle is heavy on burst or you are confident in your skills to avoid damage. This is because if you are being hit for a sustained amount of time, you are doing something wrong anyway. Enchants are preferably 29 spell power and 20 resilience on head, 23 spellpower and 15 resilience on shoulders, 35 spell penetration on cloak, 20 resi on chest, 30 SP on bracers, 28 SP on gloves, 50 SP/30 stamina on legs, Tuskarr's Vitality on boots, and Mighty Spellpower on weapon. Gem choices should correspond to itemization values (e.g. balancing out SP/stamina/haste). Aim for 60 or so penetration, hit shouldn't be a large problem due to talents, 1800 or so spell power, 300+ haste, and 17k-18k health (these numbers are based on what I think your gear is capable of).

As arcane I play with around 1950 spell power, 400-450 or so haste, and around 550-600 resilience, with 18k health or so unbuffed.

Now as for playstyle, you are really limited, with being fast and deadly in execution. Idling will have consequences, so you best be fast and aggresive. I find that the best class to play with as Arcane mage is a rogue. It's just so much CC and damage its ridiculous. This spec can be pulled off with a healer, preferably a shaman or priest (bloodlust is fun), but for outstanding results a rogue, or infact any viable dps, is the way to go (lock etc).

Since you are arcane, you will be doing significantly more damage than him (don't act surprised). Because of this, your priorities shift as from playing frost. You want to do as much damage as possible, and CC with CS or sheeps in the middle of a nuke or at the start of a nuke, to avoid defensive sheeping and losing your pressure. Your rogue would ideally equip more defensive gear than if playing a frost mage/rogue setup.

You must decide the most viable target to take depending on the situation, as demonstrated in the video. Counterspell if cast during a healing spell is devestating (8 seconds no healing, pretty much no chance against our burst) but if you know what the healer is capable of pulling off in a GCD or are just confident you can finish your target off, feel free to use the 4 second improved version. It is also a good idea to use counterspell to fend off incoming CC from locks or druids etc to continue bursting, even if your target is a healer. Your rogue always has kick, and even if he doesnt your damage outpaces any healing by miles, especially a slowed/wound poisoined target.

Now since Presence of Mind is not able to be used in conjunction with AP/IV, its best to use it at the start, either with a PoM frostfire bolt (love this on rogues), or for a fast sheep to get a window for a fast kill. I prefer to Arcane Barrage our nuke target for a missile barrage proc, then pop mana gem for 225 spell power with t7.5 2 piece bonus, PoM sheep on the healer/offending dps, AP/IV, cast arcane blast once for 15% damage, and let rip a missile barrage powered arcane missiles, followed by a arcane barrage, and (rarely needed), a fire blast. This alone can kill someone, let alone with a rogue helping you rape him. If you dont kill them, just continue to cc the other person, and if you keep pressuring they should go down with ease.

Arcane is all about experience. I played alot with it in TBC when 40/0/21 was amazing for raids, and continuously ever since it became viable for pvp. Shame they don't have many good available rogues on my server.


Now as for battlegrounds, the exact same applies. Keep away from melee, lockout and play aggresive. A good way to handle melee is to slow, arcane barrage, kite, and if you get a missile barrage proc, sheep and open offensively to kill them. I can't detail what to do for each specific class, but you will learn from experience. It's not really wax on wax off when playing arcane. It's not like frost where you must rely on snares and shields to help kite. The idea is that you aren't on the defensive, you are constantly on the offensive, forcing them to play defensive, and getting the opening for a kill.

Don't be downhearted though when facing a rogue with full cooldowns, and you dont have half. Sure its possible to beat them, but if they are half skilled, you have 0-no chance as a rookie. Veterans can eat rogues tho, but an exceptional rogue with full cooldowns is extremely hard to beat even for the best mages. If you are wondering why I am emphasising rogues, its because they are by far the hardest class to beat, with so many ways to eat mages.

P.S.

That 2v2 video was on my battlegroup, few teams I know on my server

 

Scandinavian

Akraat, thank you for your reply!

I should mention that my preferred style of PvP is BG and WG. I don't dare step foot into Arena since I play WoW via touch pad. It doesn't give me enough mobility for something as skillful as Arena; however in BG and WG my margin for error is much bigger.

I've read through the information you posted and have come to understand that Arcane is extremely haste-friendly. Currently I'm using the Hateful set but it's drowning me in an insane amount of crit. Where do you suggest I stack up on haste aside from gems? If you can give my gear a once-over and give some suggestions I'd be most grateful.

Thanks in advance!

 

Akraat

Well if you stack pure haste from gems, you should be able to reach 300 haste I think with full hateful. Now if you are after more haste, here are some gear choices you can take.

[Deadly Gladiator's Pendant of Subjugation] - Since the last patch all Deadly non set epics do not require rating. This neck is the second best for pvp at the moment.

[Deadly Gladiator's Cloak of Subjugation] - Same as above, second best cloak if you are looking for haste.

[Titan-Forged Raiment of Salvation] - The Wintergrasp chest, belt, boots and head are all of deadly gladiator standard. This chest is an upgrade to the hateful gladiator in itself, and is also a good alternative to the deadly gladiator chestpiece since it has haste. Currently viewed as Best in Slot for haste stacking mages.

[Titan-Forged Cord of Salvation] - Same as above, an alternative to the deadly belt which provides crit, this provides haste.

[Titan-Forged Slippers of Salvation] - Same as above, and best in slot for haste stacking mages.

[Titan-Forged Rune of Alacrity] - I dont use this, I use the 111 spell power alternative. Although as gear progresses this one takes over. It replaces your pvp trinket and provides 95 haste.

[Battlemaster's Avidity] - Again I dont use this, but it provides 95 haste. It is all about item balancing. If you are approaching 500 haste with only 1700 spell power, try to replace this or the on above with the spell power alternatives.

These are the only haste exclusive pvp items. For more haste, some pve is required. Most mages walk around with Valorous Frostfire Leggings, and Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads, gemmed with full haste. Since you don't do any arena, its not a big deal if you get them or not, the set pieces will do fine. But if you are really serious, or are planning to take up arena in the future, you must make an effort to get them, as they are extremely good and again viewed as best in slot, for the massive amount of hit, haste, damage and crit they provide, along with 225 spell power when you use a mana gem.

 

Scandinavian

Thanks again for the reply, Akraat. I'd been thinking that I would have to use non-set pieces to stack haste. Last night I found the two Deadly Gladiator pieces in Org, but I never knew about the WG pieces. I'll have to give it a shot.

 

Nemantopia

Great summary. In PvP, haste is definitely a desired stat. The trouble Mages have is that straight 'Season-Adjective's Thingy of whatever' only give the choice between Spirit and Critical strike rating. This means that stacking haste will set you a season behind in terms of BiS PvP gear. That said, gear balancing is the name of the game. Currently, the BiS pre-rating is a mix of Hateful and Deadly gear, with whatever weapon and wand you can get. I've generated a basic and easily modified stat spreadsheet showing the benefits of itemization, including adding in gems, enchantments, and slot bonuses. Feel free to use it as a platform for your own gearing questions, the formulas are solid and I designed it to be easy modification: change the name, change the values, spreadsheet does the rest. Assuming ilvl 213 Weapon/Offhand/Wand or Staff/Wand, I've modeled the pre-talent values for an undead mage...other racial values would change health, mana, and to a much smaller extent crit somewhat.

An attempt to balance around haste and avoid spirit leads to ~19k health, ~14.3k mana, ~1900 base spellpower, ~300 crit (before intellect, and spirit, assuming Molten Armor), around 400 to 450 haste rating, ~80 or ~175 hit [it's hard to avoid hit on staves O-o], 564 Resilience, and 55 base spell penetration (enough to overcome MotW). Benefits assume CC break trinket, +8% run speed, 440 spellpower for 20s [2 min. CD], +40% mana gem and spellpower bonus from using it, and meta-gem benefit of choice. I personally prefer +crit damage, but the defensive benefits aren't exactly bad. In terms of hit, a staff wielder probably wants to trade any hit possible on other gear for anything, even crit or spirit. Someone using Sword/Frill likely needs a bit of +hit from gear to overcome base miss chance assuming you skip hit talents...between the Deadly ring and assuming frostfire pants, you can't avoid ~2% hit anyway.

As matters of personal preference, I PvP itemize spellpower > haste >> resilience > crit >> hit. I've also found the Frostfire 2pc bonus to be nearly invaluable, and I can't see sacking it for even 226 level gear at this point. Of course, I'm not really at the rating curretnly to talk much about using ilvl 226 gear...

Attached Files

MagePvP.xls (27.5 KB, 145 views)

This is not the signature you're looking for. You are free to move along.

-Curse you, Raglu!
Generation 28:
The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

 

Kermits-finger

Tizzwump
Thanks for the link to the movie, I watched it about 10 times and picked up a lot of things I was doing wrong. I am teamed up with a Prot Paly, "I know, what a weird freakin combo. Arcane Mage and Prot Paly" but that's how it is now, long story... Anyway, it helped out a lot and I appreciate it...

Akraat
Great post, it's always nice when someone who has spent a lot of time in the arena takes the time to share what they have learned.

 

Awshlia

I play on a laptop with just a touchpad and prefer it over a mouse. I tried using a mouse one time and it confused me. Of course I'm still working my way up the arena ladder, but I don't think my use of a touchpad has had an effect: I think it's the fact that I'm new to playing with my 2's and 3's partners, and I just got my druid to 80 in April.

 

therealord

It has been a while now since I have attempted to PvP and hold my own in the arena. Since I last PvPed a lot has changed - so much that I am at a complete loss as to what to do anymore. I just have a few questions from which I feel Ill be able to jump back into the game from

1. The major thing that I am baffled by now, is what gear to go for. I remember before when I played (Season 3 was the newest stuff) I went for full Season 1, then my weapon and filled in the non-set items (bracers, belt etc) and slowly bettered by set gear. What should I try to get now?

After havign typed this I realized that that was my one major concern. I can learn the specs and stuff on my own (though any suggestions would be nice :P) and I appreciate any response that I receive.

 

wingot

I'm primarily a raiding mage at the moment, and am still getting geared up in PvE (as my wow armory link would show). I use FFB for the dps + mana conservation aspects. I also have dual spec, and never use my FB spec since changing to FFB. As such, I am currently thinking that I will swap the spare spec for Frost, which has me considering PvP. I will likely also use the same spec for the trash sides of raids (since FB/FFB is so long-fight weighted with LB, Ignite, DoT's, HS, etc).

Put simply, I am wanting to be able to hold my own in BGs and WG, with some minor Arena involvement with a well geared PvE shaman (Bishin, same realm), and trying to determine what the best distribution of points would be for frost, and would the stated PvP frost spec be feasable for trash clearing in raids? Or is there a thread I should be reading for frost raiding (for example, in the Mage specific forum there is a thread for each PvE spec)? I have not been able to find one.

Also, any advice on PvP with a shammy? He is currently resto specced, and his elem spec is very low on the dps charts (and I presume burst), but should he work on this to be competitive, or would sticking with heals work? I know in a 3v3 heals is required, but my understanding is that in 2v2, heals are not particularly valuable?

 

Akraat

Frost mage/resto shaman can work, but not with your gear or experience. It takes gear, skill and experience to pull it off, just like any other mage/healer team. But if you are going ahead with it, look at my frost spec, and take one point from magic attunement and put it in focus magic.

Don't think it's a big deal for BGs tho. You get randoms with greens coming in all the time. But the same spec works best in there too.

 

Akraat

Look at my spec and the gear listings up on this page, should tell you all you need to know.

 

Xaithian

Quick question about a 2v2 team... I don't really see very many Mage/Warlock teams, and I was wondering if that was because there just shouldn't be or if they actually could work well together. A friend of mine has a warlock and he wants to do arenas together but we both don't know how well it would work.

Does it depend on spec or experience?

 

Marcel

The link below should be alot of help to you. It is a comp that can work pretty well but it does depend on gear and experience alot. Games will be fast and short. The mage controles something and the warlock blows something up with help from the mage. Their very fast and intense games because your working against the clock, every second the game lasts longer the more chance you have to lose.

Its very fun though.

Frost Mage/Destruction Warlock Strategy - Arena Junkies

 

Xaithian

I really really appreciate the help. It proved very useful.

Though I must confess, I have decided to devote much of my playing to pvp but I have found that beyond battlegrounds I am much less skilled than I thought. Anyone have any tips for getting into shape for duels and arena's? I know this is kind of a noob question but I'm a bit desperate for tips.

 

Marcel

Just Do It! (tm)

There is basicly just 1 way. Duel and do arena's! Skirmisches if you must.. But battlegrounds are alot different from arena. If you already have a friend with wich you do (or going to do) arena with Turn on teamspeak and play together, attack bases with 2 people in AB and eots to learn coordination. But the rest is just arena and duels.