Akraat

4 things I have found to be most effective:

1) Practice at becoming lightning with your keybinds. If you can get a spell off 0.1 seconds before a druid runs LoS, it could make or break the match. Speed is everything.

2) Duel a lot. A lot of bored high rated arena players are usually outside in org, for me atleast. Find them, duel them, learn from the duel, devise strategies, and follow and adapt those strategies depending on the situation. It will eventually become routine, and will ultimately leading to an elitist sort of playstyle (the noobs are the ones who IB cheap shot).

3) Do plenty of battlegrounds. Situations vary hugely in arenas, and to experience as many as possible, battlegrounds are the best. I remember once on my warrior alt in AB, I had just entered GM to cap it at 30% health. A warrior with full deadly and 100% health charges me. I instantly switch to sword and shield, pop shield wall and shield block, and spam revenge. He died in about 4 GCDs, I had 30% health left. Learning to adapt to situations is the most important part of pvp. Because if you know what is coming and are prepared for it, your opponents strategy is screwed. Doesn't matter what it is, it won't be as effective.

4)Skirmish. Same idea as battlegrounds, but you get to apply them to the arena.

Follow all of these training tips, and I can guarantee you will see a large difference in how you used to play.

About lock mage. It really is all about skill. Normally mage goes double dps, however there are plenty of priest/mage or resto shaman/mage 2k+ rated teams about. Destro lock mage doesn't fall into that category, but it still requires a lot more skill to pull off than mage/rogue, and will consistently (I find) yield lesser results.

 

tgbrown7

These haste items are pretty good choices. The WG items are not all deadly gladiator iLvL though, just the belt and chest are, boots and helm are hateful glad iLvL (still very good starter pieces, or if you are low on haste)

However I would not stack too much haste as arcane, untill you are at 2100 sp or above I would be going mostly for dmg/resil. Getting faster casts off is nice, but since a lot of your dmg is from instant barrage or very fast missiles, having slighly faster casts is not that important (also 6% haste from talents if you choose it should be good enough with a few other pieces with haste).

For frost you definitely want haste until you are at 500-650 then spell dmg, and sitting at 600 or so resil is just fine for bgs. For arcane I would never gem for haste, you can pick up some of the haste offpieces, but gemming I would go sp/resil, arc is pretty squishy.

 

tgbrown7

Its good to see some discussion about mage pvp in here. I saw some things worth responding to:

1. You definitely should be playing with a mouse, even if its difficult at first. I cannot tell you how much it will make thnigs better for you in the long run. I can gaurantee you that nobody at the highest level plays with a touch pad, and while you may not aspire to get to that level, it will be so much easier if you can adapt to a mouse. The speed you can do things is going to be crucial sometimes.

2. Someone was talking about keybinds, and it can never be emphasized enough that you need to make sure you get used to binding everything you possibly can. Its very tough at first, but do 5-6 a week and it shouldnt be too bad if you are playing a decent amount. Dont discount certain bindings, at this point I have 50-55 bindings, including all buffs, creating mana gems, using water, pet attacks, pet's aggression (mainly just passive to prevent CC breaks). When you get used to using them all it will feel so much smoother playing, and eventually you despise having to click anything, which is how I ended up with everything bound (ritual of refresh, various gearsets, mounts, everything!)

3. I play mage lock I saw someone talking about that. I would say its a great comp to play if you want to learn to play mage well and you and your partner are willing to fail many times, because its a very hard comp to play. First you must be frost because your lock is going to need constant peels (deep freeze, novas or at the very least slows). But its a great learning tool because you need to keep track of doing lots of dmg while CCing people effectively and not letting your partner die. Its very fun but can be frustrating, so just keep with it (i am no gladiator by the way, just play it around 2k with a friend for fun)

4. people talking about arcane specs in BGs, its really a great bg spec, lots of damage and control, it would be a great arena spec but if people are well coordinated you are easy to lock down and kill (and if you dont have partners to worry about saving, arcane is great) as i said in my previous post i would not stack haste as arcane, though it can work, it requires you to be getting off lots of arcane blasts, which is difficult against good rogues, hunters locks etc

Sorry for the long post, bored at work

 

Akraat

I dunno, I would say to gem depending on setup. For quick match-ups like rogue/mage, I would go full SP/haste. I think that supporting arcane's ability for huge burst is a better contribution than backing up its weaker survivability aspect. I'd like to hear your view.

 

tgbrown7

Well in the case of playing mage rogue as arcane i would say focus on offensive stats almost exclusively, because its basically burst to force CDs, try to iceblock/reset to do it again, which should involve very little dmg (and if it goes much longer you are probably losing). I would say go for full on sp though in all likelihood (mage rogues typically run with ~500 resil so shouldnt require any gemming) because heopfully the only time you will be casting arcane blasts will be when the kill target is stunned. Since these matches are so short i would say icy veins should be enough in terms of haste + the haste talent in arcane tree if you choose it.

So i think pure spellpower is better because in short 30-60s matches most all of the arc blasts you use will be during icy veins which already makes them fast, or PoM blasts. I have considered the idea of going for full haste ilke 600ish with netherwind presence + icy veins to try to get stacked to 3 arc blasts really quickly for huge burst. The reason I think that wouldnt work very well is because a good team should see that coming and find a way to CC / interrupt you (it also makes getting a kill become extremely important because you will go oom very fast that way if you are wearing low intellect pvp gear).

That being said I think that would be a fantastic BG setup/spec because against less well organized opponents if yuo quickly get to 3x arc blast stack something should be dying (whether its to missile barrage or arc blast + arc barrage)

sorry for the novel, i am in the writing mood today

 

Xaithian

Akraat thanks so very much, I have spent hours. Yes, I did say hours combing through this thread and watching pvp videos on and I must say you give very valid and insightful advice. I do have one recommendation though it is time consuming to anyone who is serious about pvp.

Watch PvP videos! seriously, not just mage videos but videos for every class...You learn how mages play while in action, and can even see their set ups and addons, as well as other classes strats and play styles... Once you get inside the head of your opponents it makes a difference I found...

 

Akraat

Yup, very true. Just play and learn is all I have to add to that.

 

Akraat

Good summary. It's actually the way I gem and itemize my gear. Totally agree with it.

 

tgbrown7

Watching pvp videos and dueling I think are the two best things you can do to learn how to utilize all of your abilities. BGs are a great way of learning positioning and situational awareness (like when someone is vulnerable).

I would recommend watching some older mage pvp videos too, like the vurtne classics, and many others from 60 or 70, you wont learn how to play today but I gaurantee you that it will teach you the types of things you can do to improve (anticipation, kiting, controlling via novas + poly).

 

tgbrown7

I think a good thing to think about if you are pvping is trying fire. Fire in arenas is pretty awful, but in battlegrounds its very good. I would recommend something like:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Plenty of those points could be moved around depending on exaclty what you like, but its a really fun BG spec. Basic ideas are to use scorch, LB and frostfirebolt as main nukes, and if you can get someone novaed and cast a FFB you can shatter them with that + fire blast for big dmg + ignites.

Also it gives you some great instant aoe via DB, BW and instant flamestrikes. If you get bored of frost pvp fire can definitely be fun, you will die a lot, but you will also get huge numbers and blow stuff up, so its worth it

 

Akraat

Actually tried fire. Kite by sheeping, then launching a FFB to slow your target. Kite from there. With living bomb, dragon's breath, and blast wave, they will die sooner or later.

 

Xaithian

I'm testing the waters with my warlock partner and We managed to actually win a match today WOO...considering he is like 1 piece hateful and i've only got 3 and we have never done arenas before I'd say that's an achievement.

Though I must say...I don't think I'm utilizing my frost spec very well... Once more i must ask the noob question of what kind of rotations should I be using and what macro's would make my life easier.

 

Lileith

The best "burst" rotation (I would'nt call that a rotation but well...) in an attempt to kill a healer assuming you aren't under pressure/and or is not close from a pillar is probably :

frostbolt spam until fof proc,

Use Icy Veins,

frostbolt again for the first charge.

frostbolt + spam deepfreeze on the second+ghost charges.

Depending on your haste you can then

Frostbolt + 2 IL or Frostbolt*2 + IL.

Silence + Shatter with pet nova.

By then you will probably have one Brain Freeze proc, use it and then fireblast.

If you are very low on rating this may be helpful.

 

tgbrown7

This is difficult because to really improve you need to think of things not in terms of a rotation, but more of reacting to the situation. I can try to give you a few ideas that should help, as I play mage warlock also.

Mage/Lock

First your main objective at the start of the match is to prevent any dps from the other team from getting to your warlock, since against melee especially he has very few outs. So you shouldnt focus on damage right away, but more on novas/sheeps (usually only if the dps doesnt have a dispeller partner, but somtimes if they do, esp at lower ratings it wont get cleansed too fast) and maybe cone of cold to slow them.

Bursting with Pets

After preventing any initial burst on the lock he should have some distance and be able to cast on the dps, and its at this point that you want to start thinking about damage. if you find that your games are going really quickly, which as mage lock will often be the case, i would just blow icy veins, any trinkets ([Platinum Disks of Swiftness] is what i would recommend) your elemental and your mirror images.

Pouring out Damage

This is a fairly simple strategy and isnt always the exact correct thing to do, but its really not too far off either. Now you have a lot of pets doing damage for you (you should make sure to tell them to attack the target you are on, if you tell the elemental to do this while images are out, they will attack the same target also) and you have the ability to "shatter" whenever a good opportunity arises. so basically at this point you spam frostbolt into the target, use Brain freeze procs when you get them for the most part, and when you have FoF procs you can "shatter" also. When targets start to get below 50% sheep the healer or counterspell them.

Shatter Combos

Now if you are very new to mage/arenas on a mage you may be unfamiliar with the concept of shatter combos and this is absolutely the most important thing you can learn. (if you already know it, maybe someone else doesnt) Basically shatter refers to the shatter talent, which gives high crit % and increased dmg on ice lance on frozen targets. So what shatter combo means is that you are casting a frostbolt at a target who is frost novaed (or you have a fingers of frost proc which considers them frozen) with an instant cast immediately afterward (usually ice lance, can be brain freeze fireball though) because crit is calculated when the cast leaves your hands as they will both count as frozen even if one lands first and breaks the nova. This leads to a large amount of dmg that lands at almost exactly the same time (with decent gear if both crit can be 6k+3K easily)

Now you know what a shatter combo is I can tell you that the way to use one is almost never going to be walking to someone frost novaing them and then casting a frostbolt. There are 2 main ways you need to get good at utilizing shatter:

1. the MOST important element of frost mage burst dmg is from using the elemental to get a shatter off. This is done by casting a frostbolt and then before the cast is done using your pets freeze on your target then hitting an ice lance immediately as your frostbolt is done (the elementals freeze is a targeted aoe, so you need to actually place it on the target, much like blizzarding). I will give a little timeline below:

-------------0----------------------------------------------------2s--------------- 2.25s--------2.5s
Start casting FBolt..............................................Use Elemental Freeze..Ice Lance.............

The ice lance you are just hitting as your frostbolt cast ends to make sure the release at the same time.

2. The second way is when you have a fingers of frost proc to just hit ice lance immediately as your frostbolt is done to get 2 casts both with high chance to crit.

Macros

Macros - Arena Junkies is a great place to check for macros and other strategy stuff. The important macros you may want are the water elemental summon one, and a focus counterspell, for starters. (if you start for feel more comfortable mouseover sheep, quick ice block, there are tons of useful ones you would want, but its a bit much at the start)

Well thats sort of a novel, i expected to just talk a bit about mage lock, but i guess if you are newer to mage in general there are lots of things to know about, sorry for all that typing!

 

uranazo

I find this macro provides the most burst potential...

#showtooltip Arcane Missiles
/use 13 (or 14)
/cast Icy Veins
/cast Arcane Power
/cast Arcane Missiles

When a Missile Barrage procs, I ensure that slow is on my target and if there is room I will cast one Arcane blast followed by a POM Arc Blast to get atleast 2 stacks, frost nova if they are close and do then hit the macro described above. This macro provides burst potential that I've seen up to the ranges of 3k-4k per wave (critting) totaling 15k-20k damage, however it can be unlikely to get that much damage as that would require all 5 missiles to crit. With Shatter however, this is more obtainable but the ice WILL break before all 5 are done. Finishing up the Missile Barrage is always an Arcane barrage as a "6th" wave.

CS + this macro can be very deadly to a healer... If you manage to catch them when they are close to half health or less, this will garuntee they will die almost every time...

IV + MB can bring Arc Missiles sub 2.0s w/ haste so this is A LOT of damage very quickly...

 

tgbrown7

If you are arcane that is a decent way to burst, however I would really say you shouldnt be doing that unless they are full health. Usually all that setup time to get the burst diminshes the burst attempt because then its obvious its coming so someone pops CDs, interrupts you, or you get CCed.

So if they are full and you dont really have a chance to kill them for a bit its a decent idea. Usually its better to just use the missile barrage procs from a good distance and skip the frost nova stuff, though trying to get AB stacks, popping CDs and making sure slow is on for ToTW are all good points.

really as arcane you shouldnt have to worry about the burst, its built into the spec well, you need to worry about staying alive and being at max range should be priority #1 usually.

 

Xaithian

I have been looking through all the posted gear and what stats are most talked about, and I noticed hit isn't really brought up at all... I was told I needed more hit but since you are all talking about haste and spellpower my question is, is spell hit important and if so how much?

 

Marcel

You dont want your frostbolt to miss when trying to finish someone off. So you will need between 4 and 6% hit. I've just logged out in pvp gear so you might want to compare your gear to mine. Its pretty starter stuff and achiveable by everybody willing to grind some WG and honor.

 

Xaithian

So to achieve between 4-6% what kind of number would I need to shoot for 100? A couple gem's and a spellblade and an offhand should get me that.

 

Marcel

I have around 7% wich is 200. Like I said, check out my gear it should help alot.

 

Akraat

Two things you can do: One is to get elemental precision to allow more stats from gear to go elsewhere, so you only need 2% hit from gear (48ish, 5% is soft cap in pvp). But I like to get that and normal hit from gear (hate insect swarm). You also want about 100-120 ish spell penetration. These are base stats, like defence caps before tanking heroics for tanks. They are the most important, haste or anything else should be secondary.

 

Marcel

YouTube - xs1mpl3's Channel

These are videos from my partners perspective playing mage lock at low rating. We suck, we know we are improving. The vids are from around 700ish rating and we are at 900 now. They might help you.

(tips are welcome btw)

 

poof312

Marcel, this strategy guide will probably be very helpful, particularly the matchups part at the end: Frost Mage/Destruction Warlock Strategy - Arena Junkies

 

Marcel

Very nice of you to post this but if you would scroll back a page you would see I already posted this link here. The above link of me and my partner was just to profide some extra movies for the person above asking for lock mage help.

Adding to that: Frost Mage and Destruction Warlock 2vs2 2500+ By calorz is a new movie wich some very skilled players playing the same setup. Highly recomended if you play the setup yourself.

 

tgbrown7

Hit is still pretty important, though spell pen is actually more important usually. The World of Warcraft Armory I am currently in pvp gear and have 94 hit rating, which is a little bit under the cap (5% = 105 hit rating, aside from racials/talents)

So if you can get around 100 thats really good enough, also you want around 100-110 spell pen. You can grab precision but really you want to get the hit to put those talents elsewhere because there are lots of good frost talents, and you are going to have to miss some for it.

After you have the hit and spell pen above then I would recommend working on spell dmg/haste.