authority11

With the coming patch introducing the 8 resilience gem, which gem do you believe will be preferable for most classes in Arena, 12 stam or 8 resilience? I want to get your guy's take on this so I know which one to stock up on before patch day.

 

Ghost

Really depends on what your weaknesses are and what your team makeup is. If your most dangerous oponents are warriors and rogues go with resilience. Nerfing their crit rate helps a lot. If Warlocks and Priests give you trouble go for 12 stamina instead.

Also, if your arena teams have a good amount of healing on them, Resilience is more useful because it effectively makes their healing more efficient on you. If you have little or no healers on your team then that would make me lean towards +12 sta gems.

 

authority11

Yeah, melee is easily the bane of warlock, so I think most of us warlocks will be going with a majority of Resilience.

 

Orinas

Hi there, I think I've seen you somewhere before :P.

Matchup nightmare for you last week.

 

Felheim

Twelve stamina, hands down.

"Just bind mangle to everything and roll your face across your keyboard."

 

Keline

The resilience that S2 gear and new honor gear provides should be more than sufficient really.

 

authority11

Haha omg!!! Yea, I was 4-0 with my usual priest partner, but he wanted to go to bed because the queue times were ridiculously long that night. Tried out the shaman to get my last 6 games in for the week and we hit 2350 after beating the #3 ranked Priest/Mage team for 20 pts. Then we played you guys like 5 times in a row LOL. I cried every time. You really dominated me. I couldn't even cast anything, haha. I got into PVP really late so I only have 1 piece of gladiator gear and 110 resil Good rogues like you are pretty much an auto-loss for me However, I look forward to playing you next season with some real gear!

 

Orinas

Waitaminute, you beat Fireace and Zahar? (I think that's who you meant). They're a very impressive duo, also from Gul'dan, good job if it's them. We hit 2301 this week, and I'm hoping for the netherdrake. We were ranked 49 last week with 2249 and the new rating should bring us up another 5-10 spots (depending how much people play this final week to get the ratings up, we might see a bunch of people rise).

So, how many teams do you think there are in Rampage? Hopefully 10k+.

Also, just so I'm not derailing the topic, I've always been in favor of resilience > stam, mainly because I started a very squishy 5v5 (pally druid rogue warlock shadow priest) two weeks ago and hit 2k pretty easily on the first week (and then hit a wall, our shadow priest has 150 resilience and gets eaten alive out there). What Ghost said pretty much covers it up really.

Buy Dawnstones imo, I'll definitely see you in season 2.

 

authority11

Yea, Fireace and Zahar. I've always dominated them with my Priest partner (although I've never gotten 20 points off them when I beat them with priest). We simply just OOM Fireace with Manaburn and Manadrain and they're kinda screwed. We've beaten them about four or five times with my usual Dwarf Priest partner. That night with the Shaman was much harder since I had to do all the mana draining myself, but we still won comfortably. Congrats on getting so high as Rogue/Pal. You guys and Priest/Rogue are my true nightmare matchups That is a serious accomplishment with all those War/Pal teams floating around at the 2200+ rating.

Anyways, I'm derailing my own thread! Back on topic I must go! As a warlock, I think I've been able to get such a high rating with such awful gear by avoiding the melee teams as much as possible. Whenever I play caster teams I really don't give a damn about my resil very much. The only teams I really lose to as Priest/Warlock are teams with extremely decked warriors or skillful rogues. (The rogues don't have to be as decked as long as they are good at timing stuns/interrupts). As such, I think the choice for me is clearly resilience to hopefully shore up those melee matchups a bit more. Stamina is certainly very good as demonology with the stam talent boosters, but I plan on going affliction once I pick up the full Season 2 set and won't have to rely on the crutch of soul link.

 

Orinas

The only reason we've so high is because the pally warriors in our BGG in 2s generally blow. We've beaten almost every stormherald + pally that came at us (and really, we shouldn't, it's a straight up hard counter). Ironically, the only pally warrior combo we faced that gave us serious problems only had a deep thunder. Larana (pally) and Skullsz (warrior) from Cho'Gall I believe, are very good. We played them for 22 minutes one game and lost barely (two OOM pallies, lawl chain mace stun > my paladin without cooldowns left, added with a resisted vanish CS on Skullsz when I tried to save Araxas (my paladin buddy).

Also, gg thread derailed.

 

Artaxz

Take it to your Battlegroup forums.

In reply to the actual question, there is no quick answer, as there are far too many variables involved including group makeup and battlegroup trends. Suffice it to say, if one member of your group is attacked first more than 50% of the time, your team may benefit more from that member utilizing mixed stam/resil as opposed to all stam gems.

For a more involved discussion, the search tab is your friend....

The True Impact of Resilience

http://plaguelands.com/?page_id=298

 

Ramalama

As much as I am a math guy by nature, I don't think numbers *alone* can answer resilience versus stam questions. There are a few things to think about when judging the worth of additional stamina.

First, the damage you can sustain before dying is not a linear function of your total health pool due to healing (and other factors). For example, with 8k total health you can very likely die before you can receive more than 1-2 heals. Your "damage intake until death" might be 10k. But with 12k total health, you are much less susceptible to burst damage and healer mana pool and HPS are the deciding factor. Though your max health is only 50% more, your "damage intake until death" may go up by a factor of 3+. However, boosting your max health from 12k to 14k may not increase your longevity at all if the deciding factor is now your healers' gear (or whether or not they are CC'd, etc.). From this simplified perspective, additional stamina beyond a certain point provides you very little benefit, while the percentage-based reduction from resilience may determine whether your healers can out pace the damage done to you over time.

In short, if you are already confident you cannot be bursted down additional stamina may not be useful. Whether this confidence comes with an attainable amount of stamina is another question and depends on your class, your team, and what teams you expect to face. For some teams and strategies, you can never have "enough" health.

Second, you should consider abilities that proc off dealing/receiving crits. I'm not an expert on melee classes, but most builds for damage classes invest talent points in effects that depend on crits. By preventing your opponent's crits you not only reduce their damage, but also deny them access to whatever buffs or benefits they would receive.

Being a priest, I know how important our reactive "upon being crit" talents are. We have one very important talent called Blessed Resilience which gives a 60% chance upon being crit to proc a buff that makes us immune to being crit for 6 seconds. With this proc and high resilience, we are capable of chaining "burst damage reduction" with multiple consecutive BR procs off of resilience-mitigated crits. This can give many extra seconds of no burst damage for us our or healing partner to stabilize against the incoming damage when we otherwise would have died. Of course this is a very minor effect, because the talent proc will occur whether or not the crit is mitigated by resilience. But in the case of BR, a proc off a mitigated crit actually makes the effect even stronger.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. If you take anything away from this it should only be that it is extremely difficult to equate the effects of stamina and resilience. Fortunately, except in the cases of enchants and gems, the decision is made for you by lack of diversity in available gear. Personally I will be choosing resilience over stamina when possible because I find it more difficult to find high resilience pieces than high stam pieces. I also feel resilience is more beneficial for priests than for other classes due to BR and because our counter classes (rogues and warriors) are very crit-dependent. So in S2 I will be switching my 12 stam gems for 8 resilience and gem bonuses.

 

Vazu

Resilience (as long as your Stamina is reasonable..) is almost always a better choice in yellow slots and +12 stam in blue slots. Remember, it really doesn't matter a TON how much health you have. A Priest in 100 Resilience with 12,000 health will get his shit pushed in much faster than a Priest with 300+ Resilience and 10,000 health.

 

ReverendSin

My question is for the shoulders, +12 stam and Halaa +10 resilience gem for +12/+13 with the set bonus or +24 stam from two +12 gems.

 

authority11

Set bonus, hands down in my opinion.

 

Tutanka

This is Bang on.

Stacking stimina makes you more dificult to burst down, it does not however make you any easier to heal. More often then not people are not bursted down fast, they get an MS type debuff and they are dps'ed down because healers arent able to keep up.

Therefore you want to reach a threshold on stamina and then stack all resiliance.

 

Aphyrax

I was amazed how easy it is to get 350 resilience now without the use of any gems. So we are approaching diminishing returns for resilience where the crit damage reduction becomes less useful because you will rarely get crit, especially if you have anti-crit talents.

Given that I will socket stamina into my new gear.

 

padrote

You have to remember that your on-getting-crit talents activate on normal hits at the rate of your resilience's crit reduction. This is especially important for priests as blessed recovery will proc more often on normal hits the more you stack resilience, preventing crits afterwards.

On the other hand stamina is useful against DoT teams whereas resilience takes a backseat.

 

Aphyrax

I do know that. I am more thinking of talents like "reduces chance to be crit" or "reduces crit damage taken" (ie talents that mimic resilience). The problem with resilience is, the more you get the less incremental benefit it offers, as the second part of the stat becomes less and less useful. If you are crit immune you waste half the stat. So the stat suffers from diminishing returns, unlike stamina which becomes more useful as you get more resilience/armor/resists.

Setting aside the gem debate, at what point do people think extra resilience is not worth the item budget anymore?

 

Shadowborne

I've been at 400 resilience for season 1. My goal for season 2 is 550 resilience. Because I have a healer partner, I value resilience more then stamina. I would rather slow the burst down while my Paladin is CC'd so he gets a chance to heal me. If I was with another DPS class, I would value stamina more. Also, the only group that is not effected by Resilience Shadow Priest/Warlock we have a shadow resist set for.

 

Yakman

Not true.

If you would have gotten crit, but resilience caused you not to be crit, the effect is still considered a critical strike, it just doesn't get the damage bonus of being a critical hit. This means 2 things:

1) The warrior white damage crits you (before resilience) resilience makes it not a crit. The damage shows up as a crit, but without as much damage as you would expect. The warrior gets flurry.

2) The attack on you was a crit, if you have 400 resilience that means it does 20% less damage.

That's right kids, crits that are lost due to resilience actually do LESS damage than a normal hit.

With 400 resilience: If a normal fireball does 2000 damage, a critical strike fireball does 2400 damage, and a fireball that was made not a crit by resilience only does 1600 damage.

Sexy no? Look for the low damage 'crits' in your combat log. They will be even smaller than you expect.

 

Orinas

Pretty sure 1. is false. Having played 41/20 season 1, not critting means no sealfate proc. It doesn't show up as crits on my end, and therefore no extra CP. I don't know where you got this information. There were patch notes pertaining enrage in a similar type of situation, but not what you're saying. I'd like to see screenshots of 1. before I can believe it. The rest is all true.

 

◊ Shadowed

The current theory is that theres no such thing as a converted crit.

If I have 25% crit, and I'm attacking a Warrior who has 5% crit chance reduction then the game will just assume I have 20% crit, however the Warrior will have a 5% increased chance for on-crit abilities to proc like Enrage regardless if the attack actually crits or not.

 

Aphyrax

Since what you say directly contradicts Yakman's statement I think we will need some testing. Unless someone has hard evidence one way or the other I will try to test this out tonight. It should be quite easy, since the statement that resilience makes attacks do less damage than a normal hit is quite observable.

 

◊ Shadowed

I'll have to dig around, there was a topic about it like a week into S1 starting.