[Paladin] the concept of going spell damage

Yulaforever · 06/20/07, 4:32 PM

Disclaimer: please don't flame.

I've heard this rumor going around...even seeing a video here and there about the idea of buying the lamellar gear, stacking +spell dmg, and becoming a completely different kind of monster for pvp.

I've been coming across more and more teams (in season 1 I only played in the lower 2K brackets) that focus on double DPS and CC (2v2 and 3v3). If you can CC me, the paladin, just for a few seconds, you can dish out enough burst to blast straight through my heals. This has become a common problem and, frankly, I'm growing tired of losing to this rock-paper-scissor matchup.

As a healer, there are only so many things I can do (my partner is a warrior). The success of the higher rated double DPS teams are because of extreme utility. When you see a rogue and a warlock; a shadowpriest and a warlock; a warlock and a mage; etc.etc., the team's synergy and ability to keep a healer out of the game is astounding. What I bring to the table is purely defensive utility between freedom, bop, sac, cleanse, bubble...is there anything else I can do? When your opponent is at a thread of life but you can't quite finish them off? If you just had another few hundred points of damage? Why not speed up the process entirely and throw your opponents off guard?

Considering the benefits of going spell damage, I believe the paladin does offer powerful on-demand burst while still maintaining decent enough healing. With the increase in the 2v2 team's damage, you'll be able to finish off double caster groups much easier because now there are two DPSers instead of one. By putting pressure on the opposing team, you weaken their offense and force them to play more defensively. Is this a viable solution?

Even so, I already bought two pieces of the +dmg gear. I plan on practicing dueling and such (seems to be a popular sport on my server). Was just wondering if this was a strategy that other paladins had thought about.

Oh yea, what spec would you go? 40/0/21 seems like the ideal one, but you seem to have to pick up a lot of junk on the way just to get sanctity aura.

Amera · 06/20/07, 5:40 PM

I've never been a fan of spell damage personally; I've always found it incredibly overrated for a class with no chain-cast nukes. It does give you the ability to judge SoR and Crit holy shock for some mediocre burst damage once every 15 seconds, though, which has its uses. I think the big appeal for the lamellar gear is that you don't lose much healing and get at least some offensive power. It's obviously an effective dueling spec, and I'm sure it has some viability in lower arena brackets, but anyone who claims it is a "monster" is exaggerating or has never seen what an actual caster can do with spell damage.

Max rank SoR judge is ~218 damage. I believe it gets a 50% spell coefficient on judging, so with 700 spell power you're looking at 568 damage every 10 seconds. Holy shock is ~552 damage, so in that same setup it will hit for 902 damage. Obviously you can increase these with crusader or trinkets or whatever.

It's just not really comparable to, say, a shaman whose chain-castable 2sec lightning bolts that hit for 1203 and crit for double with the same amount of spell power.

You don't need to change spec at all for this. The normal 41/20 is still the best because the other 14 seconds I imagine you are still healing, and an extra 10% holy damage for 21 talent points is not worth the loss in other trees.

Keline · 06/20/07, 7:27 PM

Our extremly long cooldowns on anything that deals damage make this simply not work. Blizzard simply wants us to be the only class incapable of dealing damage.
As Kalgan has said, they're too afraid of invulnerable Paladins dominating the BGs.

DecimusGarona · 06/20/07, 7:39 PM

This works for priests but not for paladins. Healing priests who bought their spell damage set can be quite brutal... especially with the mana burns.

Amera · 06/20/07, 7:45 PM

Our extremly long cooldowns on anything that deals damage make this simply not work. Blizzard simply wants us to be the only class incapable of dealing damage.
As Kalgan has said, they're too afraid of invulnerable Paladins dominating the BGs.

You can do damage just fine, you just have to gear and spec in a way antithetical to healing to get any serious results.

This works for priests but not for paladins. Healing priests who bought their spell damage set can be quite brutal... especially with the mana burns.

Shaman also, I imagine.

Ragnor · 06/21/07, 12:17 AM

Only worthwhile if you have a six demon bag and they haven't fixed it stacking with spell damage yet like you see in all the spelldamageadin movies.

Crossbones · 06/21/07, 12:24 AM

40/0/21 with a ton of spell damage is probably one of the best class/specs for dueling period, but I don't see it working well at all in arenas. Are you really that close to beating double caster teams that the extra bit of burst is going to score a win?

Also you're going to be in trouble when fighting straight dps + healer teams when the other healer has such an advantage on heals.

Mearis · 06/21/07, 3:31 AM

Originally Posted by DecimusGarona

This works for priests but not for paladins. Healing priests who bought their spell damage set can be quite brutal... especially with the mana burns.

What? Expecially given that manaburn doesn't scale at all with + damage, this is pretty wrong. Smite priests arebasically a compromise for someone who wants to raid heal but still retain some solo ability.

Rheyah · 06/21/07, 4:25 AM

I had considered going spell damage but it simply isn't that effective. You can get comparable damage against plate simply by being Retribution and having half the gear. The main strength of it is that you're probably Holy, and you can do damage while wearing a shield so you have high mitigation and can heal well. In group PvP though you just don't have the throughput even at high gear levels.

It's good for 1v1 PvP though and for showy 2v1 and 3v1 displays. Makes them fairly easy. But you won't do anything like the damage of a Ret paladin.

mop · 06/21/07, 6:07 AM

I've always collected spell damage gear over "typical" retribution gear since my first paladin.

I wouldn't take it for serious PVP but it is probably the best "herbalism" spec there is (Being able to pop AW to instantly kill somebody virtually every encounter). If you were looking seriously at doing damage in arena, spell damage would definitely be your best bet. For 1v1's, I believe it's superior to retribution due to the ability to heal yourself without being as taxing on mana.

You lose around 500-600~ healing compared to the ornamented pieces, but you'd more likely have more spell crit/resilience. I'm floating around 1k~ damage at the moment, though my survivability isn't top notch due to me taking the ornamented set of this seasons' honor rewards and such but in my 'dream' gear, 350~ Resilience, 1k~ Spell damage and 11k~ HP is achievable. The burst you can provide is also pretty impressive, without BG Buff I average at 3k Holy Shocks, 2.7k JoR's and 2k 6DB.

The ashtounge trinket supposedly gives a large coefficient on the spell damage part, meaning that would definitely be one of the best trinkets, pairing it with a 6DB for larger burst, or a MOTH for more serious PVP.

Braids · 06/21/07, 11:04 AM

My Paladin alt is almost ready for Season 2. I've already picked her up a few BG pieces, Lamellar and I made the choice over Ornamental because she is an alt---meaning I dedicate less time for her and would like as close to 1-2 set gear configuration for PVP and PVE respectively. Spell damage is good for both, I'll just end up socketing and enchanting everything to be pure +heal.

If I had more time than of course I'd pick the pure heal set as I would also have the resources to pick up better "farming/solo" pieces.

I find that "burst" Paladins, whether through pure Holy or full Retribution only work in 2v2 where very few players expect both Repentance and the Paladin rushing forward instead of playing LOS/kite games.