My current spec in 3.08 is [Warlock 3.08 17/11/43]. I have enjoyed it so far over the Haunt/SL build that i previously had, i had a lot of issues really killing anything and it wasn't that much fun for me in the bg, but when i switched to destro i felt i had an easier time keeping people off me due to having an extra stun, but i also felt i was able to help burst people down better than when i was affliction. overall this spec has been fun for me and i am looking to continue exploring and playing with it as i move into 3.1.
The first is essentially a modified version of my 3.08 spec, but it is obviously better due to the changes in 3.1. The 2nd is a version without soul link, intended for use only by people heavily pvp geared, as the tools you are trading will provide survivability as well but differently. You essentially get nightfall procs, Empowered Corruption, siphon life, CoEx, & Backdraft, at the loss of soul link, fel dom, and some pet buff stuff. Seemed like a solid build so i saved it in the case i feel i can afford to lose Soul link.
just some thoughts, since you asked if anyone else was thinking about pvp specs post 3.1 ;p
What really caught my attention is your second spec. I have been planning something EXTREMELY similar for quite some time now. I don't do PvP, but have been gathering gear in preparation for it, and I would like to ask a few questions about the reasons behind a couple of your choices.
Is Nightfall really worth it? I know that in PvE, the 2 points, though usually taken in current Affliction builds, is only taken to fill slots to get to the next tier. I question if the two points can't be spent elsewhere. One spot I can think of to swap those points into would be to complete 3/3 Backdraft.
Also, what Glyphs would you be using with this spec? From what it looks like, I'm guessing Conflag, Corruption, and Siphon Life?
I don't do PvP, but have been gathering gear in preparation for it,
I am not a warlock, but just as some general pvp advice - get out there and run some games. Nothing you can possibly spec will affect your potential as much as practice. The earlier you start, the further you can get when you finally have gear.
I am not a warlock, but just as some general pvp advice - get out there and run some games. Nothing you can possibly spec will affect your potential as much as practice. The earlier you start, the further you can get when you finally have gear.
I am a warlock, and I can add to that. Read the strats for the different comps on arenajunkies. Watch the pvp videos from the pros like Brayzee (that man is a pimp). I think the site I go to is warcraftmovies.com or something like that.
Over the past two weeks I had some epiphanies and I feel like I'm getting to the point where I'm competent. Of course, I say that but my rating is only 1600~. That's probably not considered competent by hard core pvpers.
Glyph of Howl of Terror. Seriously, it's game changing.
Make pet management a priority. PVE is mostly fire and forget. PVP you have to be on top of your game. Mapping pet attack to mousewheel up and pet retreat to mousewheel down increased my pet micromanagement skills 100 fold. Have macros to use their abilities. There are good sites with multi-pet macros out there. mapping the 'e' key to your macro for spell lock is amazing.
l2juke - you can't do this without practice. This is what it boils down to: start casting fear, do something like move to disrupt it. Watch their kick hit you harmlessly and then grin when the fear goes off a second later.
Configure your UI for pvp.
Get the mod Gladius. Ghost pulse is nice too.
Learn how to get into combat so you and your partner don't get sapped. Watch the most recent Brayzee video for a lesson on how to do this. Seeing is believing.
What about SL/SL/Conflag for 3.1? Conflag is going to pack quite a punch now. Even without Emberstorm. I felt like maxing Backlash and Nether prot. would be the better move. You could drop coex and a point in emp. corruption for 2/3 Soul Leech or 2/5 ES depending on your preference. It's still drain tank, just with far more burst potential than Haunt.
What about SL/SL/Conflag for 3.1? Conflag is going to pack quite a punch now. Even without Emberstorm. I felt like maxing Backlash and Nether prot. would be the better move. You could drop coex and a point in emp. corruption for 2/3 Soul Leech or 2/5 ES depending on your preference. It's still drain tank, just with far more burst potential than Haunt.
I don't see much point in Corruption/SL without UA. Even with UA a lot of teams will still spam cleanse, and without it, you can expect to lose your corruption constantly against teams with paladins.
He is a little scrub-like at the moment, but i am working to deck him out in pvp gear, and would like to ask a few questions if possible.
- How much Resilience/Stamina should i aim for before stacking Spell Power?
- I see some warlocks stacking a certain number of Spell pen, is this useful and how much should i aim to get?
- Through some of my research I've seen people say to spam Searing Pain instead of SB in between NF procs and re-applying DoT's, is this because of the faster cast time?
- At the moment, i have been using my void walker in bgs, purely cause i dont always have a healer, and it buys me a good 2-6 seconds of time to finish off my opponent or get some DoT's on him so he dies a few seconds after he kills me. Is there a time and place for using the void walker in arena over the felhunter, except double physical teams?
- I see some warlocks stacking a certain number of Spell pen, is this useful and how much should i aim to get?
You want enough to negate shadow protection / paladin's shadow aura. One spell pen gem, off hand, wand & cloak enchant should be perfect.
- Through some of my research I've seen people say to spam Searing Pain instead of SB in between NF procs and re-applying DoT's, is this because of the faster cast time?
Also, you don't risk having your shadow school locked out.
- At the moment, i have been using my void walker in bgs, purely cause i dont always have a healer, and it buys me a good 2-6 seconds of time to finish off my opponent or get some DoT's on him so he dies a few seconds after he kills me. Is there a time and place for using the void walker in arena over the felhunter, except double physical teams?
Any double dps team should be jumping you, so having the bubble ready if it comes down to it is extremely useful. Otherwise, if you've had your felhunter killed multiple times, switch to void, as it'll be a lot easier to keep up -- try to avoid needing this, though, as losing spell lock is a pretty big deal.
What really caught my attention is your second spec. I have been planning something EXTREMELY similar for quite some time now. I don't do PvP, but have been gathering gear in preparation for it, and I would like to ask a few questions about the reasons behind a couple of your choices.
Is Nightfall really worth it? I know that in PvE, the 2 points, though usually taken in current Affliction builds, is only taken to fill slots to get to the next tier. I question if the two points can't be spent elsewhere. One spot I can think of to swap those points into would be to complete 3/3 Backdraft.
Also, what Glyphs would you be using with this spec? From what it looks like, I'm guessing Conflag, Corruption, and Siphon Life?
My train of thought when choosing nightfall in that non-Soul Link spec was just that if i'm giving up Soul Link i want damage to show for it... you could put those points anywhere... i find it fun in pvp though when those RNG's throw you a bone and you get instacast dd's back to back and just melt someone
i have been switching my glyphs up a lot lately just seeing which i like the most. For that spec i would agree with your glyph choices, i would say that the only "required" of those would be conflag, the others could be swapped depending on personal preference.
Was wondering if I could get some feedback from the community?
I would glyph with soul link, shadowflame and conflagrate.
Pros:
Lots of mobility.
All of the damage reduction talents and most of the life returning talents.
Lots of range with both range talents.
Cons:
Misses out on shadow and flame.
No instant re summon on a demon.
No "nightfall" proc.
In my battle group at least, people know to kill your pet. Sometimes it gets double teamed for a 1-2 second kill. Using a glyph of soul link would be silly since after 2 seconds you'd no longer have a pet, nor would you have a reliable way to bring it back (no instant cast, no 4 seconds worth of cast time reduction). 5 seconds is sometimes too long to bring a pet back out. 9 seconds would be almost impossible. In my opinion, you might have some luck in a double dps burst team, but not in much else.
I recently hit 80 on my Lock and really would like to get into PvP more than I did on my Holy Pally. I've enjoyed Demonology and it looks, at least a little bit, to be a decent tree for PvP. I've been playing around with talent choices and this is what I've come up with:
For someone that is only going to focus on PVP/Arena, what would you guys consider the min/max professions? Currently I am thinking about going engineering + either tailoring or enchanting (not sure about JCing with the introduction of epic gems in later patches). Engineering is fairly amazing for the random things you can play around with (Nitro Boots/Trinkets/Glove item etc). Tailoring is getting buffed with 3.1 in regards to the cloak enchant. Enchanting itself has always been powerful because of the ring enchants.
* The damage threshold for Fear, Psychic Scream, Hex, Intimidating Shout, and Turn Evil to break early has been significantly reduced. source
If this means that the damage threshold is going to be reduced to 10% (as rampant internet rumor suggests), what does this mean for Fear as a tool available to Warlocks in PvP?
Doing some napkin math calculations suggests that Fear will last three seconds, at best (Assumptions: opponent has 20k hp, UA and Corruption on the target, each tick for more than 1k).
That feels very weak, to me. (Though, possibly balanced given how bursty PvP has become.)
So I'm curious: When would you use Fear in 3.1, and what would you use it for?
The way it was used before when you couldn't kill ppl in the span of 3 fears because damage is so out of control, the best CC probably in the game. If you've only been using to try to kill ppl and not CC other targets, then I feel really bad for you.
The way it was used before when you couldn't kill ppl in the span of 3 fears because damage is so out of control, the best CC probably in the game. If you've only been using to try to kill ppl and not CC other targets, then I feel really bad for you.
I haven't been using it on kill targets. That would be obviously dumb. 24% of a target's health isn't very much if you've got multiple people beating on them.
And I'll admit, it's still obviously a good CC on a target that's taking no damage.
But I was mostly concerned with how it seems worthless as a CC if you're using UA to protect against defensive dispels and Corruption to put pressure on multiple targets.
Love the thread. My main is a DK but I am trying to get my warlock into PVP. She's PVP Affliction right now: Nemesor.
My gear is lacking (when it comes to resilience and stam) and I'm sure the experience will change quite dramatically when I get more gear, but for now I can't seem to stay alive. I'm thinking of bandwagon-hopping and going the succubus/destro route in 3.1, but I don't know if I have the gear for it. I'm nervous about using SL (glyphed) with Succubus because she's already quite fragile.
My questions:
Are any warlock specs considered to be more entry-level friendly than others? In 3.1? What partners/teams are going to work well with the destro spec in 3.1? Anyone with burst? Will Lock/Healer still be alright in 2's with it? At what levels of gear (resilience/stam) will the experience of consistently dying in 1-3 GCDs significantly change?
Affliction warlocks rely on fear. Fear is getting nerfed in 3.1. While the exact number keeps getting bumped up and down depending on who you talk to to, it's going to go a little bit something like this.
We'll take more damage because the fear will break sooner, which means whatever the hell it is will get back on to us sooner, which costs us cast time. If we don't touch them and use fear as a CC we'll do less damage - I'll get back to that - which coupled with the damage nerfs means that it's highly questionable whether we'll remain competitive when compared to other forms of DPS, because; We have no burst nor mortal strike, if we cannot deal DoT damage to multiple targets - because it'll break fear early - we don't have the spells nor cast time to generate an outgoing DPS that's sufficient. Sufficient in this instance, is counted in healer pressure when compared to that generated by other DPS.
So the DoTs needed for multi-target DPS are getting nerfed, reducing DPS, and with fear the then de-facto reduction of fear duration (because if we "just use it as a CC" we'll be giving up what makes us competitive DPS, which makes the whole thing a Catch 22) the amount of healer pressure generated through pure damage is going to go down - using fear to for healer pressure with as many targets as possible DoTed is basically how you play at the moment. As I said, we have no mortal strike or burst to speak off to generate healer pressure without fear, which leaves affliction in a very bad place. We will be taking more damage, dealing less and will be largely unable to transfer that damage into effective healer pressure. I would, at this point, advice against a playing it with anything. Maybe when it hit lives it won't be as bad as it looks, but in all honesty, I doubt it. Optimism seems to be first PTR casaulty when testing the new affliction.
So no; Affliction is not likely to be a friendly beginner spec nor a good spec to play with a healer.
Demonology warlocks; Think affliction, but with a higher cast-time dependancy. I don't have hardly any experience of this spec in PvP so it's harder for me to compare, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You've got all the cons of not being affliction, but none of the pro's of actually being destruction.
Destruction warlocks are going with Conflag where affliction warlocks are with fear; Make or break tied to a single spell. A lot of people are speculating that Conflag will recieve at least one round of the nerfs before hitting live so it's hard to tell, but basically, this is looking like the go to spec. You are, on paper, more cast-time dependant than affliction - which is why affliction-variations have been the most popular spec since, what, pre-TBC? but as of 3.1 you will have more peeling power than both now, and when compared to affliction. That's pretty much a DPS increase right there, before you look at Conflag and the buffed Chaos Bolt. Now you do have the burst to generate healing pressure. You are however, more vulnerable to spam-dispelling, which might make shadowpriests a better option due to their new... eh... Vampiric Touch is it?
Possible partners depends a bit on bracket, but basically rogue/mage to pin and peel will work quite nice (there's a 2.5K+ rated Dest/Frost mage team right now in some US BG). While the burst they bring isn't to be forgotten, the pin and peel is really the point. Maybe a shadowpriest as well, but I have some doubts due to pillar hugging. As to healers, I'd say the same will apply; A shaman is likely to be awesome due to the peeling capabilities, with a non-DR sharing CC and decent burst. And let's not forget heroism.
Paladin's use as a partner is a bit more questionable. On one hand, he's got less peeling power available, which is probably going to drop your DPS - Demonic Circle should still buy you enough time for burst everynow and then. On the other hand, the healing output is probably still fairly insane, and aura mastery + destruction + haste trinkets is arguably going to be a seriously painful combination I'm not really at home as to how much burst a paladin can bring to bear (Any paladin care to fill us in?), but I'd probably rather have a shaman with me anyway. Depends largely on how succesful they are with the nerfs to paladins.
I'd forget priest right of the bat. You have one peel, and it's just been nerfed and it shares DR. You are both essential damage blackholes (it goes in, it doesn't come out). You can't get rid of enemy pressure effeciently, and while under enemy pressure you can no longer generate enough pressure to force the other side onto the defensive.
Druid somewhere around paladin - except they probably go OOM and do less healing of course - but properly handled, the entangling roots/cyclone to peel/CC probably makes them decent, despite a lack of their burst damage. I don't know much about druid healing in PvP in Wrath though, so maybe their mana effeciency makes them even worse than priests.
By the time you start getting 750+ resilience it'll probably feel different. It's worth noting that this sensation is still not quite the same thing as actually killing a member of a select few classes (speaking more of general PvP than arenas) with fear immunities and whatnot, but it'll at least feel like you left a sting rather than a stain.
As for pets... With the just-in-on-the-PTR nerf to instant-seduce, I'm honestly thinking about running dest with the felhunter. The devour magic to counter enemy CCs both on me and my partner is very, very handy as is the silence/interrupt. More tactically flexible. More durable and doesn't run out (Succubus has mana for what, 5-6 seductions?). I have a hard time motivating why I should take a physically weaker pet, that'll stop sooner, with a more limited arsenal that invokes my own DRs. Will probably test both and see what works best, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Felhunter turns into the PvP pet of choice again.
Excellent post Calix. I have definitely given up on Affliction, but am having trouble locking down the rest of my spec and glyphs.
I start with 0/3/45. This seems pretty cookie-cutter and necessary for any Destruction builds. The absence of Chaos Bolt is only because the options to get there are questionable.
One option is 23/3/45 Affliction, to regain the Curse of Exhaustion. This almost necessitates taking Corruption as one of your glyphs, but it seems worth it. Very little protection for your pet, however.
The other option of where to put the bulk of my points is 0/17/45, to regain the versatility of being able to summon a pet mid-fight, perhaps even multiple times. You probably would want to finish the Destruction tree to get Chaos Bolt, but...
To go deep into Destruction with 0/12/59 seems efficient, but Pyroclasm and Improved Soul Leech seem like PvE talents to me. Fire and Brimstone is also a strange beast. Useless against dispel spam, but then again, doesn't dispel spam kind of screw us anyways?
Anyway, I think it'll mostly depend on the strength of your comp and your synergy on lockdowns, so I may end up with 2/12/57 using Succubus, Glyphs of Soul Link, Shadowflame, and Howl of Terror. The last is a tough call over Corruption, but I think it'll still be helpful.
What do you guys think?
Last edited by Minister : 04/05/09 at 6:07 PM.
Reason: Screwed up links
"I'm sorry, honey, but since I stopped playing WoW it appears that there has been some sort of expansion to the game. Unfortunately, it appears to be quite good." -- Me to my Wife
I'm not sure there's much validity to the affliction build. Why take curse of exhaustion when you have the new shadowflame glyph? I'm at work and talent sites are all blocked from here, so I can't show you the build I'm looking forward to, but it should be pretty obvious if I just post the numbers (0/17/54).
I'm really looking forward to immolate, silence healer with felhunter as immo lands, conflag, fel dom -> new felhunter, silence healer again, and chaos bolt. I'm really looking forward to april 14th - our ability to burst looks awesome.
On a related note, I've tried a dozen times or so but I can't get into the PTR. Does anyone know if the damage mitigation from molten skin is applied before or after damage mitigation via soul link?
I really don't think ignoring Chaos Bolt is going to be the way to go, not when 3.1 is buffing Chaos Bolt damage. I'm not entirely sure on the exact numbers you can squeeze out with a chaosbolt + immolate + conflag combo, but with some haste (I'm a human engineer; on-use-haste stacking here I come...) that's going to be a lot of damage for very little cast time. This is not using Shadowfury, shadowburn or leftover backlash procs which is going to make the whole thing even more painful.
While I havn't tried recently, I'm fairly sure Fel-Dom summons no longer recent pet CDs as of some patch several months ago. I havn't tried it myself though, but I don't think I'd imagine something like that. Since it does get the succubus her mana back, I wouldn't recommend skipping it anyway.
As for glyphs, I'll color code the ones I think are the real contenders for Glyph slots according to choices for Affliction and Destruction or for all specs.
Glyph of Fear is percentage based and is therefor nerfed in this patch as well. Considering the damage added is currently on the order of 4% of your maximum hp, I don't really see it as an option considering the glyphs you'd be giving up for it.
Glyph of Howl of Terror if you feel like staying affliction (for some unfathomable reason =P ) this'll still run as a game-changing experienece. I don't know how 8 seconds can make the whole thing feel so different, but it does. For destruction however, I don't think it'll be anywhere near as useful. Not being instant means you'll mostly be doing fancy LoS tricks or Shadowfurying and I think there are better places to spend your Major Glyphs in that case.
Glyph of Shadowflame. The 70% slow is just too awesome, even if hitting a moving melee with it is a pain. It's an extra, spec independant, peeling option. Regardless of partner, bracket or spec this'll be very handy.
Glyph of Unstable Affliction. It's good, but I'm not sure it's worth the other glyphs you'd be giving up for it.
Glyph of Haunt. I'd rank it above UA at least but I don't see myself able to give up the utility of SFl/SL/HoT for it. Sure, affliction'll suffer offensively this patch, but our weakness - even in the offensive department - is and continous to be a result of our method of defense.
Glyph of Soul Link. With Fel Synergy to keep pets from being as vulnerable to healer attacks or incidental damage, we have a lot more leeway to dump damage into our pets. If you're playing Dest-double-burst you might opt to forgo this for one extra of the following, but otherwise, this makes you less vulnerable to zergs and that's a Good Thing.
Glyph of Conflag immolate does not get removed on Conflag. This means more overall DPS for less cast-time. Useful for obvious reasons.
Glyph of Immolate. Your immolates periodic damage is increased by 10%. Also more overall DPS for less cast-time and I think this one might actually make your Conflag hit harder, increasing your burst. The choice between these two is not obvious though I'm leaning towards immolate, because I'm looking to play double DPS in 2's.
As for more partner speculation, I think D.Warlock/F.Mage/R.Shaman (to some extent, it already does) is going to make a mean 3v3. You've got a burst that I'd call comparable to RMP. You'd have less mana drains for healer pressure, no mortal strike, but more interrupts and better peels (Earthbind kiting for one). The peeling should cover everyone's melee weakness fairly well, the F.Mage (I think anyway?) is able to offer some dispell protection for your UA and like the RMP, everyone's got CC's not sharing DRs. The lack of a mortal strike is a bit of a bummer though, and the lack of a melee means sticking one guy on a target and just leaving him there is considerably less viable.
Glyphs: Felguard, Searing Pain, Soul Link (other possibilities: Shadowflame or Corruption)
This gives you Felguard and all the talents below it while buffing Searing Pain's crit chance to 34.6% JUST from talents and all other Destruction spells a 24.6% crit chance - not including your unbuffed/buffed crit chance from gear.
I don't know... I really don't, that's why I'm asking for thoughts.
Survivability comes with a 25% Soul Link (w/ Glyph), Molten Skin another 6% mitigation, plus 5% mitigation from having the Felguard out (w/ Master Demonologist), and Nether Protection. Also gives you a strong pet, high critical chance, and a fast nuke (because we all know how hard it is to get off spell casts times), and lots of survivability. Basically, affliction is nerfed, fear is nerfed, seduce is nerfed, conflag will probably be nerfed, so I tried to find a build that didn't rely on seduce nuke, fear, or conflag.
Downside is... Searing Pain - is it enough to light someone up for the kill even with the glyph and a crit chance probably approaching 50%? Can Felguard make up for the lack of an Immolate/Incinerate or Chaos Bolt nuke build?
Also, burst potential is pretty much left to Demonic Empowerment on your Felguard, Shadowburn, Searing Pain crits, and Backlash procs (and maybe Shadow Trance if you pick the Corruption Glyph). =\
Glyph of Immolate. Your immolates periodic damage is increased by 10%. Also more overall DPS for less cast-time and I think this one might actually make your Conflag hit harder, increasing your burst.
The glyph of immolate does increase your Conflag damage. See the discussion starting at this post in the 3.1 Warlock thread: 3.1 Patch notes discussion
Hi everyone, my first post here. Very interested in the 3.1 changes to locks. I have given up on affliction. So now i'm thinking about demon and destro.
In regards to a heavy destro spec, i think the reliance on immolate for conflag and incenerate damage buff is too great. It will be dispelled by a lot of teams and have a huge negative effect on destro burst dps.
I am however very interested in a demon heavy spec with the new talent decimation and the change to Imp SB. SB would become the main dps source, also buffing +5% spell crit to your partner, I think a mage would work great for 2s here. I would only debate the usefulness of felguard over felhunter. This spec gives +18% crit from talents +firestone crit and +5% from imb SB. Almost all the pvp gear has +crit (I have 15% crit base in my pvp gear). So a base crit of 35% is achievable not counting imp SB.
In my opinion this spec gives a great +crit, a fast soul fire for finishing, and less weakness to dispelling of immolate. I would like to hear everyones thoughts on this.
03/16/09, 9:53 AM
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