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Old 11/09/09, 12:53 PM   #676
Asmov
Always Learning
 
Asmov's Avatar
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by jiffer View Post
> Second is fearing. All I hear is cried for how OP it is, but after death coil even if I have instant howl of terror it seems the trinket or will of the forsaken or a totem nukes it. Advice on how to better use my fears would help alot surving and the ability to focus fire.
Other players will always try to break Fear as soon as possible and you will usually need all youre fears to just keep 1 player out of the fight and on the run.
The key is to keep moving away and out of his reach while you keep him feared as much as you can, youre Teleport Circle is a huge part of youre ability to stay out of their reach.

I don't claim to know alot about pvp but when I started pvp I had the exact same problem as you.

True wisdom is realising you're never done learning

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Old 12/02/09, 10:02 PM   #677
boris010666
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
The Forgotten Coast
Seekin Advice too: Resilience & Stamina

What are the caps for some of these stats?? I am 0/13/58 destro with 773 Res, 1319 Stam, 1909 BonusDmg & 20.01 Crit%, unbuffed and in full pvp(gladiator set). As a noob 80 who gruelingly leveled with a noob guild (but mostly alone since no one knew much about Wow, let alone locks), I've had to learn everything the hard way. I was told to stack as much res as possible for pvp, but there seems to be a limit as to how many Kharmaa's Grace(+20 Res) i can socket in any given set of gear. I know when i first started getting my gear, i was able to socket 2 gems in any given set, but now I can only socket one....what's up with that? Another related Q is do i really need all that res when i get more stamina? how important is it? are they related? I was also "told" that Hit and/or Haste won't make any difference in pvp....really? someone please educate a warlock at large =)

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Old 12/04/09, 12:26 AM   #678
DoomBunnie
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by boris010666 View Post
What are the caps for some of these stats?? I am 0/13/58 destro with 773 Res, 1319 Stam, 1909 BonusDmg & 20.01 Crit%, unbuffed and in full pvp(gladiator set). As a noob 80 who gruelingly leveled with a noob guild (but mostly alone since no one knew much about Wow, let alone locks), I've had to learn everything the hard way. I was told to stack as much res as possible for pvp, but there seems to be a limit as to how many Kharmaa's Grace(+20 Res) i can socket in any given set of gear. I know when i first started getting my gear, i was able to socket 2 gems in any given set, but now I can only socket one....what's up with that? Another related Q is do i really need all that res when i get more stamina? how important is it? are they related? I was also "told" that Hit and/or Haste won't make any difference in pvp....really? someone please educate a warlock at large =)


For the best chance of success in the arena, 700 resilience is the common place to start on my Battle group. Most successful warlocks I've seen on my BG are running around with 1100. Crit rate for destro you want to be in the upper 20's to mid 30's. If you opt to stack resilience there's a Kings Amber cut for resilience. you want 120 spell pen for pvp as it will cut through most racial that have the reductions you care about.

As a rule of thumb....
Hit (6%) > Resilience (700+) > Stamina > Spell Penetration (50-120) > Spellpower > Haste > Crit (25% - 35%)
The last two values are based on playstyle for myself. i much prefer haste to crit.

Last edited by DoomBunnie : 12/04/09 at 1:44 AM.

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Old 12/07/09, 3:37 PM   #679
Roldrethus
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Darkspear
I'll note that the hit cap is actually 4% in pvp, but many classes/races have a 2% bonus (This is combined with an additional 4% on ret paladins leading to 10% chance to miss blood elf ret paladins).

Beyond that, you should never be socketing for defensive stats, one kharmaa's gem in a socket to pick up a bonus is probably fine, but the best way to survive in any situation is to be able to do more damage to the opponent.

As for caps, there are of course no literal caps on any stat, except hit, but I generally find anything over 900 resilience sufficient, depending on the exact team you're playing with. Spell power is of course an amazing stat and worth stacking over basically any other stat you can get, mostly due to how the item budgets work out. The conventional wisdom is to avoid splitting stats between haste and crit, either get all crit items or all haste ones. Personally I prefer haste, but there are certainly high rated warlocks using 30% crit sets.

Spell pen is of course required to beat the opposing team's resistance, so the exact amount required varies wildly depending on who you're playing. Some common numbers are: 75 for mark of the wild, 80 for mages without mage armor, 130 for paladin auras or priest shadow protection and upwards of 220+ for a mage buffed by a priest. And while applying Curse of the Elements will negate most of this, having to apply it multiple times really sucks, as well as the clutch fears on uncursed targets.

In short, get 6% hit (including talents), 130 spell pen, then stack spell power and haste or crit, depending on preference. Never socket stamina, and try hard to avoid socketing resilience.

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Old 12/07/09, 7:03 PM   #680
Citherya
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Bleeding Hollow
Now the question is: Chaotic Skyflare or Trenchant Earthsiege? (Destro)

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Old 12/09/09, 1:05 AM   #681
DoomBunnie
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Citherya View Post
Now the question is: Chaotic Skyflare or Trenchant Earthsiege? (Destro)

Chaotic.

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Old 12/12/09, 3:47 AM   #682
Pyrilus
Glass Joe
 
Pyrilus's Avatar
 
Human Warlock
 
Galakrond
Originally Posted by DoomBunnie View Post
For the best chance of success in the arena, 700 resilience is the common place to start on my Battle group. Most successful warlocks I've seen on my BG are running around with 1100. Crit rate for destro you want to be in the upper 20's to mid 30's. If you opt to stack resilience there's a Kings Amber cut for resilience. you want 120 spell pen for pvp as it will cut through most racial that have the reductions you care about.

As a rule of thumb....
Hit (6%) > Resilience (700+) > Stamina > Spell Penetration (50-120) > Spellpower > Haste > Crit (25% - 35%)
The last two values are based on playstyle for myself. i much prefer haste to crit.
Let me revise that for you.

Hit (6%) > Resilience (700+) > Spell Penetration (120+) > Spellpower (2.7k+) > Haste > Crit (25% - 35%) > Stamina

Honestly, beyond getting hit cap and spell pen minimum requirement, you can rely on gear upgrades alone to carry your resil and stamina up to the correct levels. After that, you'll most likely want to gem either damage or haste.

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Old 12/20/09, 6:13 AM   #683
krelm
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Hyjal
need a little help

ok im not great at pvp. im running a half and half gear set, pvp mixed with pve. im rocking about 6% hit. and i was kind of thinking of a build thats primary demo but almost runs the rotation of destro. coa>corruption>immolate>spam sb with fel guard out and im using glyph of meta, fel guard and life tap.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZ0GchkAdicsxuAoE00V

please any help would be very useful.

Last edited by krelm : 12/20/09 at 6:34 AM.

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Old 12/21/09, 3:22 PM   #684
cosacar
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Demonology is generally not viable in arena now days. It is true it can take more beating and pet does OK dmg, but cast times are pretty long dmg it self is not high. You should stick with aff or destro for time being

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Old 01/13/10, 2:19 AM   #685
Scamand
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by krelm View Post
ok im not great at pvp. im running a half and half gear set, pvp mixed with pve. im rocking about 6% hit. and i was kind of thinking of a build thats primary demo but almost runs the rotation of destro. coa>corruption>immolate>spam sb with fel guard out and im using glyph of meta, fel guard and life tap.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZ0GchkAdicsxuAoE00V

please any help would be very useful.
1. Destro does not use CoA
2. Do not use Corruption unless it is going to be a long fight
3. Destro's ability to burst anything down (less now, but 4 shotting is not uncommon in the 1900-2100 bracker) cannot be matched by anything that Demo has sadly.

My suggestion to you would be to go Aff if you plan on doing anything but a wizard cleave comp for 3s and go destro if you manage to find a decent comp for 3s (Elem shaman and mage work well, a healer is typically used instead of a third dps, but this comp works well with the shaman healing in extreme situations)

As a caster with limited defensive mechanics (Teleport, HS and DC on a large cool down) Your way to minimize damage is to put the other team on defensive. Before they get to you, throw a curse of elements and an immolate up. by the time they hit you, your immolate will have registered and you should be able to use a Conflag to slow them and kite for a while, buying you some time. Now if you get a rogue or feral druid for example, be sure to set up your portal a decent distance away just in case you need to make a quick escape. Depending on how much damage you take through the initial stun, you may have to trinket the second one (in case of rogue) and throw a death coil to give you enough time to put up CoE/Immolate and conflag.

Warlocks have a HUGE disadvantage against rogues, and not too many can win against a decent player. Cloak of Shadows will screw you over, making them immune to everything you try to do for 5 seconds. Save your teleport for when he/she pops cloak because DC will almost guarunteedly miss.

Against another caster, it's about control as destro. As aff, throw a couple DoTs up and play the line of sight game. As Destro, you want to think about the outcome of every action. Do you wait for your CDs while giving them time to set up another burst cycle? do you chase after them with few cooldowns up? Once again, putting your opponent in defensive gives you the advantage, but players will not always react the way you want them to. Try to predict what your target will do, and compensate accordingly.

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Old 02/10/10, 5:11 AM   #686
Jiim
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Regarding rogue fights, you will have problems, one thing i can suggest is laying down a portal and getting max range as you can in order to teleport and create as much distance between you and the rogue as you can. Likelyhood is he'll pop cloak while trying to burst you down so don't use deathcoil before you teleport if he pops it. Save healthstone (with demon armor up) until wound poison wears off if possible. At this point you want to load him up as either destr of afflic then control him. Fears/shadowfury/shadowflame(for the slow) utilized everything you can to keep him away from you.

If he uses prep and recloaks, try fel domination voidwalker sacrifice, you can find macros for this with a little effort or write your own.

Thats all i can suggest with my limited experience, all common sense, but somethings simple often take hours of dying to realise

Good luck.

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Old 02/10/10, 10:40 AM   #687
DrRusty
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Frostwolf
I play my lock as destro, and it really isn't that hard for me to kill rogues (since I play one as my main).

What I do if I'm going toe to toe vs a rogue.

The easiest way to win is to have a voidwalker using consume shadows and using

/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast Corruption

works the same as a smashable sap macro. You'll almost always get a rogue out of stealth this way, or at least force him to blow his cloak -> vanish early. Make sure your voidwalker is on aggressive. That's the ideal situation. Then once he's used his cloak and vanish, all he has left is a trinket. As destro, you can use shadow fury, death coil, or fear to force the trink. Pick your poison =P

obviously that doesn't always work.

The rogue will usually open with cheap shot -> kidney. If he's envenom spec (which most rogues are), trinket that kidney if you have deadly poison ticking away, since you don't have to worry about being blinded. If he does blind you with deadly on you, then he's a terrible rogue and you should feel bad for losing to him. After you trinket the kidney, use your shadow fury and throw on corruption and fear him. 90% of rogues will trinket this fear. The reason you're using corruption rather than immolate, is because you have to try and put some distance between you and the rogue while he's stunned. He'll most likely cloak/vanish and reopen on you. This reopen you're going to have to eat, but if you have enough resil you should survive it. The rogue is down his cloak + vanish + trinket now. As soon as the kidney ends, throw up your death coil -> shadow fury (should be back up now). Immolate -> fear/howl of terror and finish him off. There's not much he can do now but roll over and die. If you're having trouble burstin him down, and he's closin in on you for another kidney, you still have your portal.

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Old 04/05/10, 5:59 PM   #688
JellyRollzz
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Kel'Thuzad
Pvp Trinket Questions

^^ Off topic from Demo question ^^

PvP Trinket Question:

I'm very comfortable with my gear, spec, and gem/enchants, but I feel my knowledge of trinkets for pvp isn't up to par.

I currently have the Platinum Disks - increase sp by 440 for 20 sec + 95 res
and the Battlemasters Trinket - 150 sp + 4600 health for 15 sec equipped.

I went to sk-gaming/arena today and checked out some of the top lock's trinkets. It was all over the place. Some have pvp, pve, some have haste, some crit.

My question is, what trinkets should I be going for purely for pvp purposes. Remember, I am human race, so I have any extra one to put on because of racial.

Also take note, that I probably will not run ICC 10 or 25 due to lack of time and PvE gear. The highest thing I could run is ToC 25.

Anyone have any good suggestions? Should I get the 60 Frost badge +750 sp and 150 hit? I have the Nevermelting Ice trinket, but wasn't for sure if it was better.

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Old 06/07/10, 2:01 PM   #689
Shijoku
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Kilrogg
I realize that's an old post, but I've been looking at the same stuff, as I'm currently working up a set of pvp gear. From as far as I can tell, it really depends on what type of pvp you're doing.

For BG pvp, it doesn't seem to be nearly as important. Exlcuding non-heroic loot, your best bet is probably DFO or Phlyactery in conjuntion with whichever Battlemaster's trinket you decide you want to use. If you're not human, that changes a little bit obviously. In lieu of those two, a Muradin's Spyglass is also excellent. For Arena pvp, your spec and your gear has to compliment who you're running with. That's most likely why you see all different kinds of trinkets on the serious pvpers. The two Wintergrasp Trinkets (Flow of Knowledge, Platinum Disks) seem to be very very helpful until you start getting into higher levels of resilience from your Wrathful gear, after which their usefulness falls to the wayside.

Lastly, since the hit cap is 6% and you can get 3% from talents (which means you need approximately ~80 hit), there's no reason to take the 60 frost badge hit trinket at all. In fact, there really aren't very many Frost trinkets that are worth using. I've seen arguments made for the Corroded Skeleton Key, but I think there are better trinkets out there.

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Old 09/13/10, 7:25 PM   #690
Kashunia
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Vashj
help with pvp

So after reading im thinking ill go with destro for pvp till i get better gear then maybe switch over to affliction. Anyhoo- ive read through and tried to find a good spec to follow but all the links i seem to click on are "not found" so... could someone link me with a good destro build for pvp?

Last edited by Kashunia : 09/13/10 at 10:17 PM. Reason: type-o ;/

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Old 09/29/10, 10:14 AM   #691
humpiethumb
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
destruction and affliction stats

Hey, I've had a long break from wow now, and I was wondering what the recommended haste and hit rating is in pvp atm.
for both aff. and destruction. I know it's a matter of choice too, but usually there are sort of an agreement on how much the minimum should be.

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Old 10/06/10, 7:05 AM   #692
Unihorn
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
A "soft" cap for hit is 4%, "hard" cap is about 6%. I think, any number between 4% and 6% is good.
600+ haste is needed to make sure you will not sleep when outside of bloodlust/heroism.

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Old 10/19/10, 1:38 AM   #693
phancythat
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Gundrak
I'm new to arena and really need some advice in the way of what addons would be the best starting point.

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Old 10/21/10, 1:49 PM   #694
Akhtal
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Mug'thol
Assuming current addons get ported to Cata, Gladius is a near must-have... even though Blizzard's frames are getting more complete.

Rest of them is pretty much up in the air, since arenas are down atm and will be until Dec 14th

Last edited by Akhtal : 10/21/10 at 1:49 PM. Reason: typo

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Old 11/12/10, 10:09 PM   #695
Unihorn
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
Originally Posted by phancythat View Post
I'm new to arena and really need some advice in the way of what addons would be the best starting point.
You will defenitely need Gladius or other addon with the same functionality to target enemies and track their health, trinket and cc durations.
It is also good to have a diminishing return addon like Gladiminish.
Also, as a lock, you need to track your debuffs and cooldowns. You can use any debuff tracking addon, but I like Power Auras for this and many other tasks.

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