Basically it's like the season 1 5v5 tournament, except it's a 2v2 tournament and runs until July 3rd, at which point the top 5 2v2 teams of each battlegroup get moved to a private server to hold another ladder for a chance to be drafted to a Championship Gaming Series professional WoW team and get paid a salary.
I, for one, welcome the new hordes of professional Warlock WoW players. In almost every battlegroup that I've seen the top of the 2v2 brackets are dominated by warlock/paladin and warlock/shadow priest. Is there a even a chance that the winners of this thing won't be heavily stacked? What are everyone else's thoughts on this?
Wow. Blizzard was serious when hyping up the whole e-sport thing. Of course, using the least balanced bracket is not exactly a good idea but they probably did not want to pay enough people to support 5v5s.
Wow. Blizzard was serious when hyping up the whole e-sport thing. Of course, using the least balanced bracket is not exactly a good idea but they probably did not want to pay enough people to support 5v5s.
I think its more likely that their doing it because they just did a 5v5 tournament and WSVG runs a 3v3 tournament as well.
It's early but this looks like the rise of the resto druid + war or lock. The metagame for 2v2 is actually really interesting seeing people trying to field a team that can beat all three "types" before something else comes up to beat them. That said, it's really not something to base a tournament off of.
And the 5 min queues on Ruin really aren't helping me much. Does this occur on other BGs and does anyone know why it does? Too many people queuing?
It's early but this looks like the rise of the resto druid + war or lock. The metagame for 2v2 is actually really interesting seeing people trying to field a team that can beat all three "types" before something else comes up to beat them. That said, it's really not something to base a tournament off of.
And the 5 min queues on Ruin really aren't helping me much. Does this occur on other BGs and does anyone know why it does? Too many people queuing?
I think the longer arena queues can be attributed to not enough people playing. I think most of the people are hanging around in BGs these couple of days, especially since after the patch initially hit there was something like 20+ of each BG instance up at all times of the day, something unheard of before Season 2 and the new honor gear was introduced.
I don't think so. We had 3 separate guild teams dueling outside Org and we all waited 4-5 min before entering games versus three separate teams. Plus, 3v3 and 5v5 queues are very short when less people play them overall.
Anyways, more on topic -- will this force blizzard to balance more for 2v2? Or will we just write off hunters and shamans as having a similar plight to rogues/druids in 5v5?
This is anecdotal but I think it's because of too many teams queueing. On the last night of season 1 the 2v2 queues were horrendous until about 3AM eastern and suddenly we could get instant queues vs similar rated teams again. Earlier in the evening I waited 7-8 minutes to play the same team consecutively and they hadn't played any games in between our previous one either.
It's probably because people want to play their higher payout 3v3 and 5v5 teams to zerg up the rankings now that they're reset. That would also explain why you got faster queues early morning, that's the time people would not have others around for the higher brackets. All speculation of course.
It's probably because people want to play their higher payout 3v3 and 5v5 teams to zerg up the rankings now that they're reset. That would also explain why you got faster queues early morning, that's the time people would not have others around for the higher brackets. All speculation of course.
This is just speculation on my part but when I do /who I can see at any given time 10-12 2v2 teams I recognize running yet queues are still 10 minutes. With everyones ratings being reset it should be instant, I think it's too many people queueing up for 2v2. It's without a doubt the most popular bracket for obvious reasons.
As many players are there are on a realm in a BG, I can't imagine ques being as long as they have been. Could be how the "dynamic matching" system works.
I think the long queues for 2v2 is probably related to one of the following theories:
1) The arena server can only handle a certain number of arena matches for a given bracket at any given time. Past that point you have to wait for someone else to finish before letting another pair of teams in.
2) The matchup system can only process so many requests per minute, and the more people you get queuing up the longer you will have to wait for the matchup server to find someone for you.
3) The matchup system gets pickier the more people you have queueing up, so it makes you wait for that special team with the exact same rating as you to queue up before sending you in.
I'd say 2 is the most likely, with 1 being possible, and 3 being not so likely given personal experience.
1 and 2 seem likely. Even before the patch, without fail the queue times were huge on Monday. We had people right next to us waiting for a game and nada. This only happened prime time Monday, but then without fail every week.
Originally Posted by DecimusGarona
I think the long queues for 2v2 is probably related to one of the following theories:
1) The arena server can only handle a certain number of arena matches for a given bracket at any given time. Past that point you have to wait for someone else to finish before letting another pair of teams in.
2) The matchup system can only process so many requests per minute, and the more people you get queuing up the longer you will have to wait for the matchup server to find someone for you.
3) The matchup system gets pickier the more people you have queueing up, so it makes you wait for that special team with the exact same rating as you to queue up before sending you in.
I'd say 2 is the most likely, with 1 being possible, and 3 being not so likely given personal experience.
I think the long queues for 2v2 is probably related to one of the following theories:
1) The arena server can only handle a certain number of arena matches for a given bracket at any given time. Past that point you have to wait for someone else to finish before letting another pair of teams in.
Yea, that theory would be consistent... since the only time I remember ruin having instant 2v2 queues consistently was early on in season 1, when I assume there weren't as many teams as there are now.
And the 5 min queues on Ruin really aren't helping me much. Does this occur on other BGs and does anyone know why it does? Too many people queuing?
My observations when Q'ing for 2v2 on Ruin:
1) Queues are worse during primetime (Sunday and Monday evenings in particular. I've seen up to 9 min.).
2) Queues get better at off hours.
This suggests to me that the system can only handle X number of 2v2 matches and we are waiting for games to finish.
Those theories make sense, as typically the only time I've gotten instant 2v2 queues are after 2 am Eastern, and they never happen during prime time, despite prime time having more people that would be in the queue system.
2v2 queues are about 5-7min for BG9 in prime time (the cross over of the aussie and american playing times), 3v3 and 5v5 remain sub 1min though. I'd definitely say there's a hard limit on the total number of arena instances up for a battleground.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
I put up a very long post on the inherent balance issues of WoW in the Rogue PvP thread. That was more or less about 5v5 and the rest of the game, since even Blizzard doesn't dispute that 2v2 and 3v3 are open to the same balance problems 1v1 is.
Summery: Blizzard's initial design decisions allowing for broad race/class combinations (let alone specs) and almost as broad inherent levels of strength before player skill is added cannot be reconciled into a legitimately competitive e-sport. There are too many myriad factors to balance all potential matchups - gnome warrior versus ice mage is a lot different than human warrior versus ice mage, undead rogue is legendary compared to the others for 95% of situations, etc - and trying to norm things down at this point just does more damage.
Seriously, it's kind of funny this is being announced after the trinket change. All the "knockout" CC classes, which also happen to be the ones who *need* that long CC to have a chance of winning in 2v2 must be beating Blizzard's door down with joy.
Or maybe that's the rogues stampeding away from the warlock/dwarf paladin team, the double dwarf warrior/paladin team or the warlock/dwarf shadowpriest team.
I don't think that this tournament will be too inventive really.. There will of course be some mixups regarding classes etc, but I think that most of the teams will be of similar setups. I have seen some unique setups with a top rating in 2v2, but I'm certain that there will be a lot more mirror matches in 2v2 than there would be in 3v3 or 5v5, which I think is kind of bad. :/
I don't know. I'm not really supportive on turning arenas into an "e-sport" just yet. I mean, through all its complexities and strategic combinations, etc., arenas still only have three total maps. What's more is that Blizzard is constantly nerfing/buffing classes, and therefore there are constantly imbalances due to the simple fact that there is no way to completely balance something so complex. A top team now may easily fall to the bottom because of a nerf. To further put things into perspective, the majority of "pro gamers" are in the FPS genre, in which most FPS games include a variety of maps, but more importantly balance; everyone starts out with the same amount of choices, health, etc., and therefore skill -- and perhaps a little luck -- is the determining factor in who wins.
More or less this is just Blizzard trying to promote their game.
the majority of "pro gamers" are in the FPS genre, in which most FPS games include a variety of maps, but more importantly balance; everyone starts out with the same amount of choices, health, etc., and therefore skill -- and perhaps a little luck -- is the determining factor in who wins.
Everyone starts out on equal footing in World of Warcraft too - a character selection screen with 9 choices. You just have to do a little work and invest some time before you can compete in the arena. Class/talent/gear choices could be equated to weapon selection in an FPS, except that in WoW you have a little bit more invested in those choices and changes are not so easy to make.
I can guarantee you that if you took the top arena team in your battlegroup, copied their class/talent/gear makeup, and spent a few days practicing so that you have sufficient knowledge of the classes to play an arena match, that top team would still beat the pants off of you.
06/23/07, 7:37 PM
