marloz

Lately I've been curious of which of Ice Armor or Molten Armor to use in Arenas, and I'm mainly playing in the 5v5 bracket. Let's just sum the spells up before we go to my doubts;

- Ice Armor (http://www.thottbot.com/s27124)
Increases Armor by 645 and frost resistance by 18. If an enemy strikes the caster, they may have their movement slowed by 30% and the time between their attacks increased by 25% for 5 sec.

- Molten Armor (http://www.thottbot.com/s30482)
Causes 75 Fire damage when hit, increases your chance to critically hit with spells by 3%, and reduces the chance you are critically hit by 5%.

Ice Armor gives you a 100% chance to proc Chilled on the target who attacks you which slows them for 30% (untalented, I believe Permafrost increases this to 40%, correct me if I'm wrong) and reduces their attack haste rating by 25%. This buff may also proc Frostbite, which freezes the target in place for 5 secs. This buff will give you 645 armor and 18 FrR as well.

While Molten Armor causes 75 damage to the attacker, which can crit and proc impact if talented (10% chance for a 2 sec. stun - on DR I believe) but also reduces the chance of being struck by a critical strike by 5%. Its also a passive +3% crit on your spells.

So my doubt lies herein; According to Thottbot Molten Armor reduces the critical chance of all attacks on you by 5%. And if Thottbot is correct, it's equal to 197 resilience (this does not go for the reduced crit in terms of damage done) which for me sounds like a very good choice of armor. But then again, both has their pro's and con's.

So, when it all comes down - what is your opinion on the optimal armor-buff to be used? And if I may ask, which buff do you use?

Discuss!

Edit: I'm unsure if this is the right category for my thread, but I think it's in a weird blindzone. Feel free to move it to the appropriate section if needed.

 

Viluliina

Basicly, when in doubt, use Ice Armor. Less damage taken from warriors when they're in your melee range, less melee time on warriors, less rage on warriors and you dont proc enrage on on them either. Molten Armor has it uses, but it's highly situational on arena. Mainly when you *know* that you're not going to be touched at all, you can swap it in for the 3% extra crit chance.

Also, you cant really compare Molten Armor and resilience directly, since the main reason you're getting resilience isnt the -crit% effect, it's the -crit damage part. Less crit chance is ofcourse nice, but no matter what crit chance, streaks of crits *will* happen, and without the damage reduction to crits from resilience, instagibs would happen due to *luck*. And the luck factor is the thing you should wants to minimize.

Oh, and our mage uses Ice Armor.

 

Grillkohle

Not to mention that Ice Armor procs Frostbite (which I probably would pick up for the points in Piercing Ice if I were you).

 

Ktulu

I don't think molten armor can proc enrage. I haven't tested it myself but there was a discussion about it on the mage forum.

 

dukes

According to the way people have said resillience works, any attack will have a chance to proc enrage if they have even 1 resillience point. Someone said that they have had enrage proc while standing on a fire, which normally cannot crit. Resillience gives you the % chance for enrage (or any other crit-related ability) to proc off any direct hit (I assume dot's won't count) regardless of if the ability itself can/can't normally proc enrage, related to your %reduction of crit% from resillience

At least, that's how I understand it.

 

• Chicken

That is correct yes. I've also seen a few screeenshots of Paladins proccing Eye for an Eye from mob spells while having Resilience gear equipped, while mob spells can not normally crit.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Avelle

I use Ice Armor, in 5v5 any smart team will immediately stick atleast a warrior on me to try to keep me from CCing their team, so this helps me kite them.

 

Maligne

There's no reason not to use both. Switch armors once you see what you're up against just like you remove dampen when you see you're fighting a melee team (you do remove dampen, right?). With that said, as a fire mage the only time I use Ice Armor is when I'm up against a warrior. With Impact rogues get destroyed by Molten but warriors just don't hit me enough to make it worth it. If I had Frostbite and Permafrost it would be a harder choice, but right now Molten is the clear winner.

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Bury

In my experience, Molten was annoying when trying to sheep melee because sometimes a tiny ignite would proc and break poly. I'm not sure if that was fixed because I've made it a habit to use Molten only in PvE now.

 

Xunwael

Well, the molten armor damage itself won't break poly, but the ignite damage caused by it critting will.

"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
- Clark's Law

 

◊ Vontre

If you want to spend the mana on swapping armors during combat it should be obvious, based on spec, which armor is appropriate for which class.

For general purpose, personally I'm 17/0/44 and I use molten armor 100% of the time. 5% reduced crit works on both magic and physical damage, and 3% crit on your own attacks is just good. Extra damage is always good. If there's one thing I've never really felt I needed, it's more ways to kite melee. Frostbite procs are great in duels, but it's never going to proc on what you want when you need it to in 5v5. If that warrior I'm kiting gets frozen by hitting me, I sure as hell am not gonna turn around and ice lance him for a free enrage proc.

P.S. Molten Armor does not proc enrage, we've tested this.

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retarde

Molten armor if it's not like a double warrior team you're facing. Also it's kinda important to not put talents into ignite. The -5% crit is just superior and the impact procs are nice. The thing with frostbite procs is that it can only proc every time you get a new debuff, so it's like once every 5sec while impact procs on every blow.

 

Yes

If you're doing 5s and are playing at (or trying to), gladiator level, on a non 4dps team you will screw yourself over by using molten armor unless you have impact and three rogues/druids on you. In which case you won anyway.

Remember, reapplying r1 frost armor costs nothing. -5% chance to be crit is worth a lot less mitigation in 5s with 300~+ resiliance over ice armor. Of course, exceptions are non melee teams (few).

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Lodi

You mention the low mana cost of rank 1 frost armor due to purge/dispel? Or is there some other reason to prefer it over the more expensive ice armor?

 

◊ Vontre

I think he's saying you could swap it in during combat if you have a melee team. Reduced mana cost is the only reason you would use it over ice armor - needlessly burning mana is bad. Though with rank 1 you lose the armor component.. you still get freeze procs.

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Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire. You have to not be in the fire.

"We agree with Communism." - Greg Street 2009

 

Lodi

Do frostbite procs from ice armor still cause DR for activated (frost nova) roots? I assume frostbite is still worth taking regardless.

 

Vermis

Correct me but bite, frost nova and elemental freeze are on separate dr?

 

Yes

Indeed, it is due to purge and dispel. Which happens almost every game, where most of my mana goes away simply putting up detect magic/polymorph/frostnova pet summoning/counterspelling. Because an ice mage without ice armor is a glorified paladin in terms of survival vs melee, priest teams that aren't locked down so much by our warrior have tried going for me (Because the chaos a mage deals is very brutal once mana starts running low).

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Lodi

Is there any reason *not* to use rank 1 frost nova?

Proc effects generally are on a separate DR from their controllable equivalents (e.g. mace stun, impact - probably on same DR?)

I had heard in the runup to the previous patch that on PTR frostbite was causing DR in frost nova, leading some to question whether they even wanted the talent. I was asking if that change made live.

I would be shocked of WE nova and frost nova weren't on the same DR.

 

Lodi

What's the recommended use of cold snap for a shallow frost (21) mage? After the first IB, immediately, just in case you need IB 30 sec later? Or save it after the first IB, where you'd want an immediate cone of cold or frost nova?

 

SolHeiM

Well really, I don't think Molten Armor is bad, but Ice Armor is just too good really.. As a Mage you HAVE TO have a lot of resilience if you want to go in Arenas, meaning you will have up to 3-400 resilience with the best gear available, but Molten Armor doesn't reduce damage taken from crits.

Ice Armor slows down your melee attackers, so if there is a melee heavy team, your opponents can only give one of them Freedom, whereas your teammates can give you freedom and you can kite your melee opponents easily. You cannot do that with Molten Armor.

god damnit.. When I write Molten Armor I always write Molten Core. -_-

 

◊ Vontre

I generally use it when I need to cast a frost spell that is on cooldown

For other specs, obviously never use cold snap before you summon a water elemental. A second elemental is important. At the current ratings however I frequently end up using snap before ice block, because in winning games I usually never need ice block. This early in the season people are generally loathe to focus me, and I don't block when healing and kiting will keep me up just fine. This may change at higher rankings as the season plays out. I most commonly use cold snap for frost nova.

Edit: This was totally different before hypothermia, where the correct answer was generally "immediately after ice block".

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Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire. You have to not be in the fire.

"We agree with Communism." - Greg Street 2009

 

Maligne

Have you ever tried Molten Armor with impact and blazing speed? It's really kind of silly how powerful the synergy is.

Also did you just say you cannot kite easily with molten armor when you have freedom? I beg to differ there.

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

 

Shadowed

There is nothing I hate more then Impact and Blazing Speed, even with a Warrior attacking you Impact still procs enough that it's an incredible pain to deal with, and last I checked freedom doesn't counter Impact where as it does counter Chilled.

Stuns are a lot harder to counter in general over snares and roots.

 

Lodi

Impacts (and nova/frostbite) trigger second wind. But ice armor and cone of cold don't. You're usually going to try and rage-starve a warrior with shields as well, right?