SolHeiM

So one thing that I’ve been thinking about during the past days was strategies or strategical moves being used in the different Arena maps, and not strategies used towards setups, basically I think that Blade’s Edge is the best Arena for strategy, but I think it’s the worst arena for small scale play because it’s hard to kite on it.

Lets go through Blade’s Edge quickly as it has a ramp leading up towards a bridge. In the middle of the bridge on each sides are two pillars giving line of sight down under the bridge and to the pillars appropriate side, giving you a lot of area to work on and to create strategical movement involving that specific place, however I have not seen this place being used much. Why? Watching a lot of Arena videos, I do not think I’ve seen a single game being fought “downstairs” in Blade’s Edge, and almost all games are fought on the bridge. I think that the pillar is really good to use as a healer if people are fighting downstairs because you can easily avoid CC and interrupts from people that are down fighting by simply moving a few yards backwards, yet I do not see this being used.

I do think that creating weird and unique strategies on Ruins of Lordaeron or Nagrand Arena will be a lot harder to do because they are in an open space and there isn’t as much obstacles as on Blade’s Edge Arena.

So to basically come to topic, does your Arena team use strategies for the Arenas? I am not talking about strategies that involve a setup of certain classes in an Arena, but strategies for the Arena itself, like movement strategies, positioning etc..

 

◊ Vontre

Absolutely. Abusing line of sight and positioning is extremely important, to say the least. However most of that strategy is currently "play it by ear" as the fight moves on. Early positioning strategy for blade's edge is to occupy the middle of the bridge immediately.

On Blade's Edge the bridge is generally the best strategic position as players below cannot intercept to you, they cannot counter your healers, and you can evade dps by taking a few steps backwards. Hiding spots are not nearly as plentiful below, and someone on the bridge can jump down and invade your space at any time, whereas moving up to the bridge for an attack is a lengthier process. That's why you don't see people using the bottom part of the arena as a strategic position.

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Aphyrax

We go downstairs against double warrior+shaman melee DPS zerg, as clumping up against multiple bloodlusted, windfuried warriors is basically an instaloss. The bottom gives you more room to maneuver.

 

◊ Vontre

Well there are exceptions, I think melee dps zergs would be a good one. =)

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SolHeiM

Oh yeah of course it can be a disadvantage to your team, but I was more thinking of like start fighting on the bridge, then force the battle downstairs by having your team jumping down, leaving them to follow, then like one of your healers run up and up to a pillar and you can start abusing LoS with it.

Might sound tricky but you get what I mean with it. -.-

 

Braque

In BEA, with my 3v3 (Paladin/Warrior/Hunter) team, the Warrior and I try to "catch" the other team out over near their start area / bottom of the ramp their side, this often gives us the upper hand, by throwing the opposition of guard, sometimes even catching a trailing player away from his team, and letting our hunter dps freely from the pillar. It's not perfect, and if we get the same team a few times they learn to anticipate it, but it improved our win/loss ratio a fair amount.

 

SolHeiM

So you use the rush tactic? It really isn't valid because any high rated team will always mount up on Blade's Edge and run up to their side of the bridge, and if they see you coming they will run over to "your side".

 

Braque

Saying it isn't valid because "any high rated team" do whatever is not a useful contribution. At the rating I currently play at - and presumably a lot of the people who have something to gain from reading this thread - it *is* effective, and it answers the OPs question about people using terrain tactically. There will always be a interplay of move & counter move. We rush, it gains my team an advantage in that arena some of the time. The times that we meet teams who are faster than us and just run across, does not give them an advantage, so total gain vs total loss is positive. We win more that way, and any idea you have about what high rated teams might do makes no difference to that.

 

Faerun

On Ruins of Lordaeron, we always rush 1 side of the pillar and have our healers stand beside it. This lets them stay out of LOS of the other team but still be able to heal our DPS. Works well. On Nagrand, good positioning is the key to victory - you have no idea how aggravating it is when you'r eplaying with a mainly caster team when a priest just runs around pillars all day. On BEM, I'd recommend having healers on the very backend of the bridge and your DPS in the middle so there's an extra line to get through.

 

SolHeiM

Ok then, fair enough. I use the same setup, Warrior, Hunter, Paladin in 3v3 and we actually tried the rush strategy and it never worked for us. Either the team ran over to the other side, or they just managed to see our classes quickly enough, choose target and start their own strategy towards us.

Any time we see some team trying to rush, we run over to the other side so we can easier choose the appropriate targets, and their advantage isn't that big anymore.

 

SolHeiM

Yeah, I've tried this but it isn't that easy to avoid a really good mage if he runs over to our side and their healers advance to the middle of the bridge, which happens a lot of times. I can of course use the ramp and go back and forth but I just haven't found a good way to avoid CC/Silences by abusing LoS efficiently on Blade's Edge yet, apart from using the Pillar strategy I presented in a short version in my first post.

 

Braids

In Ruins of Lordaeron, my Pally likes to use the start area to help with LOS, while we engage sort of right near the front of it. If melee wants to disrupt (or ranged for that matter), they have to go in after him and potentially cut themselves off from their own support.

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SolHeiM

Wait, what? You use your starting area and fight down there, or did you mean that you fight close to the starting area and you use that as LoS? How does that work out for you? If a team is camping most teams doesn't want to go down there because it puts them into a huge disadvantage.

 

Eks

I feel the need to dropkick people that sit in their spawn for 5 minutes and wait for us to go in... I understand its one of the few places you can LoS properly on the map, but there's no way we're gonna chase someone inside there.

 

Braids

Sorry for the misunderstandings, we fight right in front of the doors, our Pally is the only one who stays in the start area, he can go back and forth from hiding LOS with the entrance frame and popping out in view for heals. It's no different from using a pillar in Nagrand or the posts on the Blade's Edge Bridge.

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Shadowed

It's still a double edged sword, unless you're with a ranged class being able to fear them or CC them LoS of their partner is a rather nice advantage at times...and the fact that most Rogues sit inside and lets me sap them easly without playing the 1m30s game of who sees who first.

 

Eks

Well its a little different when they pop out, see a hunter, then quickly retreat and hide around the corner for a couple of minutes until they realize there's no way in hell we're gonna run in there and fight them.

 

Darlal

Due to the makeup of my team (me-rogue, and a resto shammy) we play extremely defensively. We will leave our start area in lorderon only because it lets us hide totems behind the walls and still be in range. On blade's edge we do not leave our start area. I stealth and move out of the area a bit to sap incoming enemies, but if it becomes clear they are using stealth as well then I retreat. Due to the speed mechanics of stealth and the use of totems, we have no real chance if we try to advance too far. Also, stealth is most effective when the opponent is walking into a trap. Sure, it leads to us waiting for up to 10 min for our opponent to walk into our trap, but patience is a big part of hunting.

 

Keline

Ruins of Lordaeron - the team that gets to the tomb first, places totems behind it while the other 4 guys of that team jump over it and engage the enemy is at a HUGE advantage.

 

Zagzil

It made me sad when they put in the the ropes on Blade's Edge, it really took away from the pillar-hopping strategy which was so important to certain group comps (who gets BoF or who can remove hamstring). Now the bridge remains important, but the pillars less so since jumping doesn't matter.

 

Mem

Sometimes with an unfavourable matchup (two soft clothies and a rogue vs two hunters and a resto shaman for example) camping the starting area is the only chance to avoid the instagib of one of your clothies, at least, if they aren't geared up like hell. Its sad but I have used this strat once or twice. Its not so different to camping columns in the other arenas (and after having been camped by ranged classes sitting on BEM pillars for some minutes I don't have any qualms waiting for 10 minutes and more till I can fight where I am comfortable).

 

SolHeiM

Cloth users aren't really squishy anymore, if they spec correctly. If you're a Firemage, you can be dropped quickly, and that's entirely your own fault, but spec frost and you can survive a lot more.

If you go with lets say Mage, Rogue, Priest, you have two cloth users and a Rogue, and I have not seen a single one of those setups actually sit and camp in Lordaeron. I really don't think that camping is such a good idea, and I think people at higher rating will stop doing it because my team do not want to jeopardize our rating just because a team is camping in their starting position. We'd rather wait.

Has anyone met campers at high rating? 21/2200+ last season?

 

Mem

Just believe me, my teammates are reaaally squishy (AP Pyro mage and a holy priest who often plays on his pve spec, both with virtually no resilience) and yes, we play at a lower rating. I know the difference between a decently geared pvp specced clothy and a player like my buddies perfectly well from the way I fight them on my warrior where this contrast is even stronger due to the rage gain mechanism.

 

DecimusGarona

In 2v2 there were still lordaeron starting area campers at the 2100 range in our battlegroup, fortunately my team is stealth based so it doesn't really affect us.