Any Disc Priests in 5s try out the new [Battlemaster's Perseverance]? I currently use Medallion + [Figurine - Talasite Owl], but still finding myself the first target in the majority my 5 games. Is the use-effect actually worthwhile for staying alive, or do you rarely get healed back to full for it to matter?
Funnily enough I was just thinking today that it's not really as useful as I'd thought it would be. The heal is very minor, and really I have so many cooldowns already that I'm not sure it's been overly helpful. It's a temporary boost and pain suppression and BoP and Desperate Prayer already provide that, and I've still got my instant heals there to help out. Most times when I die to burst I'm either hitting every GCD on defences already or I'm stunned and thus can't do anything anyway. I'm thinking of switching over to [Alembic of Infernal Power] to cap out resil and provide some extra mana when I'm getting focussed or a pet is keeping me in combat.
That trinket seems really nice tbh. Do you know if there's a hidden CD on it, wowhead comments say both yes and no. I'd test it myself but I don't have it currently.
That trinket seems really nice tbh. Do you know if there's a hidden CD on it, wowhead comments say both yes and no. I'd test it myself but I don't have it currently.
1 minute cooldown, it doesn't make much of a difference. I use it just for the resilience and I'd probably use a [Timelapse Shard] instead if I had the rep.
I just tested it then in stockades and it doesn't have a cooldown. A couple times SCT showed 3 procs on the screen at once because I was getting them so fast.
Any Disc Priests in 5s try out the new [Battlemaster's Perseverance]? I currently use Medallion + [Figurine - Talasite Owl], but still finding myself the first target in the majority my 5 games. Is the use-effect actually worthwhile for staying alive, or do you rarely get healed back to full for it to matter?
It's probably good for a 2 healer setup, but I haven't found it useful on our 3 healer team. Switched back to the skull.
The only real use for battlemaster trinkets is to avoid dipping into execute/dirty deeds range. If you try to use it when you're lower health than that (or higher obviously), it's not really going to do much to save you. I haven't done any real 5v5 with it since I picked it up (holiday break) but there doesn't seem to be anything too amazing about it. It's certainly a contender, but I may end up just sticking with skull and healing enchants instead of battlemaster and hit enchants. I'd be more inclined to use it if it were a 2 min cooldown or you kept the health that it heals (even if it was reduced to say 1250 if you keep the health).
Right.. I'm experiencign alot of fears getting resisted by locks, priests and other classes.
Trying to read up on it some say I need +hit and others say I need spell penetration.
Could anybody try and explain what the difference is between the two and which one I need for my fears to get resisted less?
Right.. I'm experiencign alot of fears getting resisted by locks, priests and other classes.
Trying to read up on it some say I need +hit and others say I need spell penetration.
Could anybody try and explain what the difference is between the two and which one I need for my fears to get resisted less?
There are three mechanics which are going to cause your spells to be resisted.
(1) Innate spell resist chance - every player has a 4% chance to resist your spells. This can be brought down to 1%, but never goes below 1%.
(2) Fear resist talents - stuff like Unbreakable Will. This just adds on to the innate spell resist chance, and can be completely negated with (a lot of) hit.
(3) Shadow resist - just about everyone will have a little bit of this from gear, buffs, or racials. This can only be negated by penetration.
The bottom line is, it's not worth getting more than 3% hit (38 rating), because after that point, you're really only giving yourself a benefit against classes with fear resist talents. The value of spell penetration varies widely, depending on whether the opposing team has a Priest and whether or not you can remove everyone's Shadow Protection, but luckily, there's not much good penetration augmentation to go around. I would recommend putting 20 penetration on your cloak and not worrying about anything else. As far as hit goes, you have a few more options - there's a head enchant, a glove enchant, a few gems, and a few different trinkets you can use. Different Priests have differing opinions on how important it is to have some hit rating. I think it depends a lot on your bracket, team composition, level of gear, and playstyle. If you decide to get some, remember that you have lots of ways to do so, and make sure to choose the most efficient trade-offs.
Alright: I went back and tested this again, on live. Myself and another Discipline Priest in the same party dueled. We mana burned each other once (both with and without Power Infusion), took note of the exact mana loss from each burn, and drank up to full. The result, which I am absolutely, one hundred percent certain of, is that Power Infusion has no effect whatsoever on the amount of mana burned by Mana Burn. I wasn't nuts; I was right, and I have no idea why I accepted the popular wisdom as gospel before I tested it again myself. Once again, using Power Infusion in conjunction with Mana Burn will make your burn do 600 damage instead of 500, but it will have absolutely no effect on the amount of mana burned.
That clears it up, thanks for testing this. I guess I put to much faith into Blizzard's tool tip which reads: "For each mana drained in this way, the target takes 0.5 Shadow damage."
@UnholY_Prince:
I recently got the battlemaster trinket and fooled around with it a bit in 5s.
I'm not too impressed with the Use, but what I mostly like about the trinket is that it gives a passive healing bonus with survivability on demand. This means that it's useful for me whatever setup we meet (one where I have to heal a lot, or one where I have to fight to stay alive). I usually pop the use whenever I feel a big burst is going to hit me (I have a sixth sense for that), or if my pala gets CS'ed..etc.
Against some setups however (for example hunter/lock/war/pal/pri) I think I still prefer my old Talasite Owl, because getting to do a few dispels (or whatever) after the viper sting got me dry (and a pet is on me) can make a big difference (whereas some more healing power for heals that I can't cast because I'm OOM or extra survivability against a setup that doesn't generally focus me wont do me much good).
I play a human holy priest on a 2v2 arena team with a night elf hemo rogue at the moment. Last season we got to about 1900 and plateaued whereas this season we're upto 1700 so far. For quite a long time I thought our worst match up was paladin warrior or paladin rogue. It took me long enough but I've finally found the right combination of mindcontroling/healing/offensive dispeling to pretty much stay alive forever against the dreaded pally warrior team. The trouble we are having this season rather consistantly is against a druid rogue combo. I'd love it if you guys had some feedback as to how to set up inparticularly against this matchup. I really feel like this match is what is holding us back from hitting 1850.
Their rogue is going to get on me 100% of the time. The general problem is that no matter how long I can stay alive against the rogue the druid is going to be able to survive longer.
Possiblities:
1) our Rogue on the druid: When we try this what most often happens is that our rogue will have a difficult time hitting through a bear's armor in addition to being kited in travel form and having the druid charge stun me to get out melee.
2) our Rogue on their rogue: This is alright but it leaves the druid free to cyclone spam our rogue. We are considering whether it is possible for me to mana burn the druid to attempt to punish him for trying to cyclone spam, but haven't worked out a good series of CC's yet.
3) Through a series of CC's we burn one of the two people down. Generally this ends up being sap into Fear into blind into Mindcontrol.
If anyone knows any very specfic strategies that could help me survive this fight please chime in. Generally I'm not that interested in changing spec, I really really like the one I have at the moment. Feel free to check Daerion on twisting nether in the armory if you like though.
Thanks,
-Madhattr
As a disc priest I roll with +20 healing on each ring. As dps pvp I'm rolling with +12 spell damage on each ring. However, recently I have been seriously contemplating changing to +4 stats to each ring. I used to think that I benefited only from Stam/Int, however recently I've been attempting to build some mana-regen in order to have 274 mana to cast a dispel even when I'm very much oom, and therefore i think even the spirit will be helpfull, making +4 stats the best option. Am i wrong here?
There are three mechanics which are going to cause your spells to be resisted.
(1) Innate spell resist chance - every player has a 4% chance to resist your spells. This can be brought down to 1%, but never goes below 1%.
(2) Fear resist talents - stuff like Unbreakable Will. This just adds on to the innate spell resist chance, and can be completely negated with (a lot of) hit.
(3) Shadow resist - just about everyone will have a little bit of this from gear, buffs, or racials. This can only be negated by penetration.
The bottom line is, it's not worth getting more than 3% hit (38 rating), because after that point, you're really only giving yourself a benefit against classes with fear resist talents. The value of spell penetration varies widely, depending on whether the opposing team has a Priest and whether or not you can remove everyone's Shadow Protection, but luckily, there's not much good penetration augmentation to go around. I would recommend putting 20 penetration on your cloak and not worrying about anything else. As far as hit goes, you have a few more options - there's a head enchant, a glove enchant, a few gems, and a few different trinkets you can use. Different Priests have differing opinions on how important it is to have some hit rating. I think it depends a lot on your bracket, team composition, level of gear, and playstyle. If you decide to get some, remember that you have lots of ways to do so, and make sure to choose the most efficient trade-offs.
Hi i'm currently only hitting the S3 1700 2v2 bracket with a warrior(mace), and I've got the suggested 39 spell hit rating (3.09%). I'd like to point out a few things. First, even with this 3% spell hit, I still will run head first into a few enemy players, fear, and see all 2-3 enemies resist my fear. Luck? more like bad luck. Anyways, it might be a placebo effect but I think the difference is noticable, and am also considering wielding the dps (spell penetration) ring as part of my heal set to increase my defense against resistances. My most pressing question is that I've been inspecting fellow priests in my server that are on better rated teams than mine and none of them seem to have any spell hit! They go for alot more +healing than I do in their gems and in their enchants. So who is the noob here? I'm considering moving away from the spell hit & spell penetration attributes and instead increase my bonus healing(through put). Any input on this topic is welcome.
Many classes have fear resist talents, and if there's a priest in the group, it's likely you see many resists due to talents, shadow buff and fear ward. Funny how priest's only defensive ability is being mitigated these days. Making it a horror effect would change things a bit. It's very unreliable in it's current form.
wow, this thread is amazing. i have poked around these forums for the better part of a year now, but this is the first thread that i sat down and read from beginning to end.
ok, i started off playing a priest back in the pre tbc days and dropped him to play a mage and warlock. recently though, i came back to playing him and have gotten into BG/Arena. from what i read, disc seemed the way to go and i am loving it so far. i know i have a long way to go with my gear (though ive been working on it a lot in the past week or so) and my play style, but i was looking for some feeback.
currently i am at 10371HP self buffed with 1123 healing and 248 resilience. i stick to healing in BGs, but that turns into me running around and using all my instants at times and i am just horrible at arena. i played 2v2 with my protection roommate (which was just sad lol), im playing a 3v3 with my other roommates, SL/SL lock and elemental/resto (constantly respecing) shammy, and 5v5 with those same guys and a rogue (with a mage stepping in for the warrior). mostly i just try to play the distraction in arena and kite with my instants since i get targeted immediately, but i would just love some feedback on what i can do in arenas to help my team more and what i can do in BGs to be a better player.
**edit**
the shammy just told me he was gonna start using his hunter instead of his shammy. not sure if that changes anything i should be doing aside from me needing to heal more.
As a disc priest I roll with +20 healing on each ring. As dps pvp I'm rolling with +12 spell damage on each ring. However, recently I have been seriously contemplating changing to +4 stats to each ring. I used to think that I benefited only from Stam/Int, however recently I've been attempting to build some mana-regen in order to have 274 mana to cast a dispel even when I'm very much oom, and therefore i think even the spirit will be helpfull, making +4 stats the best option. Am i wrong here?
2x +20 Healing is still going to be better than the small stat buff, IMO. +8 Spirit really isn't going to make a noticible difference in increasing your time until OOM vs. the +40 healing, since the +40 Healing is increasing your HPM as well as your HPS.
On a couple other topics touched on recently in the thread:
-Battlemaster Trinket: meh. While it's certainly not -bad-, I still prefer using Essence of the Martyr instead. The Last Stand effect can be nice, but only in one situation: When you're getting focused, and you have another healer. Since this isn't often the case (maybe 20-40% of games), I still prefer the Essence's on-use, since I'll be able to get some use out of it in every game. +300 Healing for any time your HPS is being weighed against enemy DPS can be pretty significant.
-Spell Hit: Would be nice, but isn't worth what you're going to lose to get it: a bunch of +heal. Even with a good chunk of hit, the talented fear-resist talents and resistance buffs are still going to mean you'll see plenty of resists, and rarely is one fear resist going to win or lose a match for your team.
2v2: it is simply an anti-anti-healing debuff measure when you're getting whaled on. It's another click that slows the fight down. It is valuable in that if you're going against a burst matchup, you can slow it down. Unfortunately it feels less useful than raw +healing or mana trinkets against the spectrum of matchups, and it does rely on you to be the focus of your enemy. I'd not bother with it for this at all.
3v3: PMR is the flavor of the month(s) in 3v3 and when you get up there in rating you find yourself, as a priest, being that focus fire candidate. Anything that lets you survive even a second longer through this is crucial, so I've found a lot of usage out of it. There are a ton of variables here, but it depends on if you're building for anti-PMR with blessed resilience or anti-general burst with deep disc. Either way, I run with a second healer (2 disc priests and a warrior) and we're straight up "outlast" and the trinket helps a ton.
5v5: Even more significant. As the burst on you increases after the opposition's ducks are in a row with CC in place you need that burst trigger more than anything else.
Your cumulative healing just doesn't matter when you're the assist target, which is most of the time in all brackets. I personally haven't seen that be the rarity: I'm assisted usually, I think it's a good investment.
Note: I'm not disagreeing with the assessment that anyone's made, just confirming that it is probably the best choice of trinket for assist trains on you. If that happens "usually" or "not usually" is anyone's personal experience... I focus on 3v3 and PMR always goes for me first.
I tried the Battlemaster trinket for a week and switched back to my good old [Hazza'rah's Charm of Healing] for pretty much the same reasons Benjamin explained: it's is only really good when you get bursted AND receive heals from a second healer, so the trinket can get both of you some extra time to save you. In my 2s and 3s I rarely used it and when I did, I died or was close to dying after the last stand effect wore off. I wish I had the skull, it would get me to the hitcap more easily while freeing up another enchant on gloves (either healing or the new +240 ac patch),
I tried the Battlemaster trinket for a week and switched back to my good old [Hazza'rah's Charm of Healing] for pretty much the same reasons Benjamin explained: it's is only really good when you get bursted AND receive heals from a second healer, so the trinket can get both of you some extra time to save you. In my 2s and 3s I rarely used it and when I did, I died or was close to dying after the last stand effect wore off. I wish I had the skull, it would get me to the hitcap more easily while freeing up another enchant on gloves (either healing or the new +240 ac patch),
Charm is an interesting choice. Its activation turns a 2.5s gheal into a 1.99s gheal . . . is that really worth it?
I believe the charm also works for mana burns. Speeding up gheals for real high bursts of output or even flashes to avoid interrupts are also pretty clutch I'd assume. Wish I had one lol . . . last I heard the ZG event was bugged however.
I've been lurking in this thread for a while and have really appreciated the discussion.
My priest finally hit 405 resilience this week and I've been having a hard time deciding what to do about my spec. I started with the cookie cutter 28/33 BR build since I was very undergeared, but now I've been looking more seriously at a disc focused build. I run mostly 2v2s with an SL/SL lock friend (and some 3v3s with lock and warrior). The problem we've been seeing is that he's still a bit undergeared and his DPS is just not always there to finish a kill. While I realize that PI doesn't exactly benefit the SL lock as much as other casters, it's still 15 seconds of increased DPS. Reflective Shield also looks potentially helpful and PS is definitely a great 41 point talent. Would those be worth the loss of Healing Prayers, Spiritual Healing and Bless Res?
I have a question about spellhit. Until recently I've always been under the impression that the base chance for players to resist your spells was 5% and the only 4% of those 5% could be "fixed" with spellhit. So the "cap" would be (12.62x4=) 50.48 spellhit rating.
But the last couple of weeks I've heard more and more people say that the base chance is in fact 4% and only 3% of those 4% can be fixed with spellhit, making the spellhit rating "cap" (12.62x3=) 37.86.
Now for me as an alliance priest that focuses on 5v5 this is a particularly important difference because of this aura: Inspiring Presence - Spells - World of Warcraft
Right now I have close to 3%hit in my pvp gear, but if it turns out that I'm effectively wasting 1% hit (if you include the aura) I'll replace one of those spellhit gems I have with something else.
So if anyone has any conclusive information about this, please share it!
Any other comments or questions about spellhit and pvp are always welcome.
Hey guys. This is my first season actively, and hopefully competatively partaking in the arena. Previous experience is little dribs and drabs of holy and shadow pvp on my main, but I rolled a draenei for racials and not to have to respec so much as disc/holy is a lot of fun for me.
Now, I've picked up a soul link/syphon life warlock partner who is very experienced, picking up a Gladiator title in season 2 and I play 42/19, pick things up fast, played minimally in seasons 1 and 2 and research videos and threads like this so we're not exactly noobs, climbing rating very quickly.
My general question is to do with strategy. Right now it's all very touch and go without a real strat in place, drain healers and CC the dps and take out a healer. I'm being focussed a lot of the time because, well as I believe, we are moving towards the opposing team together giving the dps a choice of what to hit. Would sending the lock over to them and avoiding (via pillars) any dps that comes over towards our side of the arena be a better strat? Moving in between pillars getting LoS on my buddy/pets and avoiding dps coming at me? What should (flexibly) be our first target, presuming healer/dps setups?
Anyone play high rated lock/priest could give me an insight into... well anything with strategy? Staying alive isn't generally a problem at the minute, but I feel we could be more efficient about winning.
Rieko, the basic strategy is to pressure their dps with dots, forcing the other healer to play actively. Then you punish the healer for doing so by hitting him with mana burns/drains. Against half-competent teams, rushing exclusively for the healers mana won't work, as they'll be able to avoid most of your draining through LoS (and if a druid, simply outranging you). You have to put some pressure on them by damaging the dps.
As for how aggressive you should be, you need to figure out "Who's the Beatdown", in basic terms who has to be offensive to avoid losing the long game. Against any team where they are the beatdown, stay defensive and exploit the heck out of LoS and DoT/HoTs as you'll win eventually. Basically, this is any 2 dps team or any team where the dps is not everlasting (ie, not a warrior, warlock or to a lesser extent rogue). Against other teams it's more difficult to determine who is the beatdown, and it might even change during the course of the game (killed the hunter's pet vs priest/hunter? They are now the beatdown, whereas before, you were).
12/22/07, 2:40 AM
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