◊ Shaker

Hit range: 0 - 50, crit 51-75, rest is blah blah.

Add 10% crit reduction from resilience:
Hit range: 0 - 60, crit 61-75, rest is blah blah.

How do they "not know" if CRIT_FLOOR - ROLL < RESILIENCE_REDUCTION (above example: rolled 66 .. 61 - 56 = 5, which is < 10, therefore it would have been a crit).

This is making SOME assumptions about how the system is designed, but as we know that crits eat hits, then resilience obviously eats them back, so it's an edge case between these two - if it's honestly that difficult, it's due to bad design.

 

◊ Shadowed

I'm not really sure what you just said, but you should read http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table

The reason theres no such thing as a converted crit is because if you have 10% reduced chance to be crit, everyone who attacks you will have a crit rate of enemies crit - 10%, it doesn't roll to see if it's a crit then do another roll to see if it should be converted to a regular hit.

Overall it's a buff that it works this way, since it means if I have 20% crit, it's reduced by 5% then you have 15% chance to proc it off a crit, and a 5% chance off regular attacks.

 

-=N_tity=-

It seems logical that the 2 talents would proc at the same time, and it also seems like a very Blizzard thing to do to make a resilience based crit not proc like a true crit.
Both of them proccing at the same time makes a bit of a double edge sword, in that if you get a small crit on Blessed Recovery it can't be overwritten by a larger crit, but if you get a large crit (thus healing for more) then it can't be overwritten by a smaller crit.
Hopefully Blizzard will just make the Blessed Recovery crits have their own buff from each crit, although I'm unsure if that would be overpowering (and against a high critting rogue/hunter you may get a screen full of buffs hehe).

As for dealing with warriors, I find that using your cooldowns as soon as the warrior gains melee is almost always better. IE shield as soon as it's up, don't save it. Fear as soon as the warrior is not immune, don't save it. Heal up with at least a flash as soon as you pop either as the warrior will have less time to react. Also ALWAYS keep renew up. As one post said above you can put a warrior in combat with a rank 1 SWP so deny them the charge and trinket the intercept. If you're quick you can start running as soon as they intercept and you'll have a headstart on them enough to deny melee range. Make sure you keep them in combat with SWP while you run and when they intercept you're free to fear and keep running.

If you're shadow use the extra 4 seconds you have over berserker rage to bandage or crank the nukes. VE is your friend so never stop DPSing except to shield whenever it's up.

 

• Calantus

Another tip for dwarves only is to blow stoneform the second a warrior gets a good crit on you if you're not also up against a rogue (or a hunter when you have no poison dispell perhaps). I don't know about everyone else but I always forgot to do this but it's really significant. A lot of warriors are toting the +4% physical damage with bleeds talent and the deep wounds itself is often a 200+ damage/tick dot.

Can anyone with experience with TBC druids comment on whether they are likely to depend on bleed damage and if so at what point? If it wasn't for the lack of CloS and Berzerker Rage I'd say feral druids would be a huge threat to my survivability.

 

Xavias

Edit: Sorry my bad, I still had resilience on =(

 

Demosthenes

BR has a 60% chance to proc not a 100% chance therefore why you could see only 1-2 going up.

 

Corfius

Yea I noticed that also. It should be impossible to proc only one since BRec and Martyrdom are supposed to proc 100% of the time. The fact sometimes you get 3 to proc at once means it must be a bug.

 

◊ Shadowed

It's not really easy to get Blood Frenzy without losing some big talents, you're either going to go 31/30/0 in which case you can't even get Second Wind, or you'll go 33/24/3 and you can only get 1 point into it, Warriors never really rely on the Deep Wounds damage since it resets everytime you crit anyway.

 

• Calantus

35/23/3 is gaining some legs, at least in our battlegroup, and Deep Wounds will tick away on a priest who likely isn't going to be crit again in at least 6 seconds. Sure they don't rely on it, but if you can press a button to save yourself 400+ damage and 4% off their hits for 8 seconds it's worth it considering PoM wouldn't do much more with MS on you.

 

◊ Shadowed

Fair enough, you're also poison immune though so if they have a Hunter (or a Rogue) you may want to save it for that.

 

crimsonsentinel

He mentioned that. Plus, stoneform gets you about 200-300 armor, yay!

 

madpeon

What talents are you trading for Blood Fenzy?

Only ones I can think of are Imp Slam or Imp Execute, neither of which equate to a straight up 4% damage boost for all the physical classes on your team.

 

◊ Shadowed

33/24/3, gives you one free point http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMxdhbqMbzbZVVzV0xRZc
31/30/0, doesn't give you any points unless you want to drop 10% haste increase for Blood Frenzy

Second Wind gives a pretty big boost when dealing with things like Entrapment Hunters or Frost Mages along with the health boosts, even if you can do 50,000 damage in the entire match thats an extra 2,000 damage which is assuming you keep Blood Frenzy up on every target, I'm fairly sure you're going to see a bigger increase out of either a maxed Flurry or Second Wind procs then you would out of Blood Frenzy.

Maybe if you were playing a Warrior stacked team I could see it being somewhat useful, but it's not really not something amazing that you should always get.

 

• Calantus

Generally they grab the extra point for the arms tree from commanding presence.

 

Leleth

Stealth-Opener:
Pounce: 4 seonds stun and about 1500 bleed damage.
(A druid will always use pounce as his opener on a priest.)

Building-Combo-Points:
Only one very weak ability named "Rake".

Finishing-Moves:
Rip: It does about 2,8k bleed-damage for me in gladiator gear. It is the best damage/energy finisher a druid has.
Fericious Bite: Crits for up to 4k on cloth. I prefer rip on priests with "Blessed Resilience".
Maim: 6 second incapacitate that does about 700 damage.

A druid with the intention to simply kill you will use FB if he sniffs a chance to burst you down.
Otherwise he should use rip for the maximum amount of damage.
If the druid and the priest are left alone, the druid can use maim to restealth to get another pounce in.


I would suggest to save stoneform for rip.

 

Crowley155

I don't see Blessed Recovery in there... maybe an oversight in the notes itself or in Blizzard making that ability affected by the change. Maybe that is why Blessed Recovery doesn't seem to proc so much? I know mine sure doesn't... not nearly as much as it should be. Could it be only proccing now off actual crits, not % on normal hits? Cus... that would suck.

 

◊ Shadowed

Easy enough to test, get a friend (Rogue or someone that hits often to speed it up), do a duel keep having him attack you until Blessed Recovery procs you should be able to figure out if it's proccing due to resilience or because of a crit, if you wanted to be 100% accurate do a lot of attacks and get the overall proc rate.

That'd be rather odd though, you'd think they would have a flag for things that proc on crit and just go through that.

 

Crowley155

Well, I haven't tested it but I did run a combat log last night during EoTS just for shits and giggles and I parsed it last night and the proc rate on my blessed resilience was easily 18x higher than Blessed Recovery. Albeit I haven't tested it in any sort of controlled manner but I came to the forums today trying to find an answer to it and find an answer to whether or not the rumors are true about Blessed Recov, Martyrdom, and Blessed Resilience not being able to be procced at the same time. Or is there some sort of mechanic that says... Blessed Resilience is the most important.. so roll that first, if it procs then stop. If not, check proc chance on Blessed Recovery, and so on.

Also, if Blessed Resilience procs and prevents crits for the next 6 seconds that prevents martyrdom, and Brecovery from proccing as well right?

 

◊ Shadowed

My understanding is that it does a roll, to make it simple lets say it's a 1-100 roll if you have 10% crit reduction from resilience everytime your hit it does a roll if it's <=10 then the ablity procs, it does this for each one crit ability which is why you don't see two of them proccing at the same time.

Because of this, it's possible for another on-crit ability to proc even while 100% crit immune, it just means they wont proc at the same time like it would from a normal crit.

 

Crowley155

That doesn't make sense though. Following your simplicity, if it rolls 1-100 and anything <=10 then it procs... well if it does each ability seperately surely there are going to be some instances when 2 or 3 of the abilities are going to roll <=10 at the same time and therefore proc off the same crit.

 

◊ Shadowed

Yea thats why I mentioned my understanding, not sure if they do a 1-100 roll and anything <=10 is considered a "converted crit" and thus procs all on crit abilities or if it does seperate rolls for each ability.

Would be worth doing more tests, could be that it's bugged.

 

Crowley155

The Martyrdom proc rate (if I remember correctly) as being decently up to par with Resilience.. maybe it's just Brecovery that is bugged? I'll do testing tonight.

 

• caladein

Each ability rolls separately. I have seen "split" procs (say getting Martyrdom and BResil but not BRec) quite often while farming.

Originally I thought it was that one of the other talent was simply broken until I realized I was getting procs out the blue off non-crits and read up on it.

Also remember that Blessed Resilience is a 60% chance on a crit, so it has only a 3% proc rate on normal hits per 200 Resilience (versus 5%/200 Resil for Martyrdom/BRec).

 

Crowley155

I was under the impression if your resilience < crit strike chance of target then resilience = proc rate of those abilities ? Or am I just way off base there.

Also that doesn't make sense either... if BRec / Martyrdom have a 5% proc rate (assuming BRecov isn't broken) and BRes has a proc rate of 3% then why does my Blessed Res proc 18x more often (information via parsed log) than Blessed Recov does?

 

◊ Shadowed