Arkani

Im curious... Is dispel spam against a druid's hots in 2s a better way of doing things, despite the lifebloom? I just find with druid teams its impossible to do much due to them just hotting up their teammate and LOS mana burns. With a rogue/druid or rogue/warrior team; their dps on me is much higher then the dps my teammate can output (being a priest and all), so when it comes to the mana race with druid that can run around and just HOT up his target, I find it very hard to win.

I Have 424 Resil with 10.5k Health Unbuffed, so I don't think its a gear issue.

 

rehtonAesoohC

Arkani, (for some context), I have a 2's team with myself and a rogue. I have 414 resilience, and 10,400 HP unbuffed. For the most part, if the druid has time to out-heal your partner's DPS through HoT's exclusively, then your partner isn't putting out enough DPS.

If the druid gets a regrowth off without you being able to fear or mana burn in that time, that's something you can work on. I find that generally, as soon as my rogue gets on their DPS, I have more than enough time to get off one or two mana burns before he goes LOS on me. Also, dispel spam is key. Lifeblooms are going to tick for their full duration anyway, and there's no execute, so it doesn't matter if you dispell lifeblooms early. At least you can keep regrowth/rejuv off their DPS, which prevents them from swiftmending. Keep the offensive pressure on their DPS to force the druid to heal defensively, then mana burn the crap out of them while they're stuck healing. Also, power infusion + mana burn is a good way of getting a few in before LOS pillar humping.

 

moowalk

If we're talking priest/rogue vs druid/warrior, it's much more important to keep abolish poison off than to worry about lifebloom blooms.

I've found the best use for PI+mana burning is the 'oh shit' factor for getting the druid to trinket fears.

 

Arkani

That brings up another question. How do you effectively fear druids? Usually their are paired with a Rogue or Warrior which will keep crip / hamstring on you the entire match. Unless the druid is a horrible player, you will never get close enough to them to fear.

 

Prevus

From my experience, getting a chance to fear a druid is not on of those things that you can ever count on happening every time you face one (as we all know) meaning their is not real way to effectively fear a druid. Sometimes though, the threat of you fearing a druid can do the trick. If (whether I have crip/hamsting on me or not) I can make the druid reposition by moving towards them at not too great a danger to myself, that can present a window of opportunity for them to get in a bad position or something else that may take some of the control out of that situation from them. Just like with warriors, esp UD since I am alliance, I know that 99% of the time (between WotF, trinket, deathwish and berserker rage) my fear won't actually last longer than 1 second even if it lands. But, when I get them to use up one of their tools against me or get them to waste time clicking on something other than MS that gives my team and I a window of opportunity to make something very positive happen.

****edit****
I put WotLK instead of WotF like an idiot =P

 

moowalk

Load up your team-mate with hots/shield, mount up and fear bomb. Once you get first fear in it;s much easier to get subsequent ones, since you're dictating positions

 

Prevus

I disagree with this since, even if you have imp Psychic Scream, S3 gloves and your fear were to last the full duration and not be resisted, you still have a 15 seconds in between fears (if you are not with another class that can fear). If, in those 15 free seconds, your initial Psychic Scream is still dictating positions then I would argue that you are not facing a very good druid.

Unless I am looking at this wrong, I still say that there is no real way to effectively fear a druid. You just have to capitalize on the chances you get.

 

Tainter

You can create chances if you make the Druid stand still or make him come to you. If you play with a Rogue and aggressively dispel the Druid's partner then he'll have to cast Healing Touch eventually, at which point you should be close enough to walk in and fear him.

The other option is to bai the Druid by casting a heal when he's in Feral Charge range. If he charges you can fear him. Granted, you can't Mana Burn him then, but if you then dispel his partner he'll be under pressure to heal when fear ends. Then you can either get some Mana Burns in or his team mate will die.

 

Mearis

Wrong. Playing disc priest/rogue versus druid/*. Have your rogue open up on whoever the druid's partner is while you stay mounted. If their partner is a hunter, this might be fairly difficult as you have to buy time for your rogue to open up.

90% of the time the druid will attempt to pop out from stealth and cyclone the rogue. If you are very lucky and fast, you can sometimes get on top of the druid and fear him before the cyclone goes off, the majority of the time though the rogue can see the cyclone coming and clos the first one.

Anyway - at this point, you arrive on top of the druid, fire the first fear off. Start helping the rogue and nuke the druid's partner hard to put him behind on healing. If the druid doesn't trinket the fear, depending on where he gets feared, the rogue can still vanish sap to make him blow his trinket, however, this is a lot harder.

At this point you want to take advantage of any momentum you built and spam dispell like a crazy man to keep everything except single stack of lifeblooms off the target the rogue is on. If your partner has decent PvE gear, he will be putting a lot of pressure. Try to use your cooldowns aggressively to avoid cyclones. When your fear has nearly cooled down, start chasing after the druid (you will usually be snared in some fashion at this point). While you are chasing the druid, keep dispelling the hots on the target your rogue is attacking - don't be afraid to trinket something like an intercept or a hamstring if it means you will land a fear. The key is to put the druid further behind on healing to the point where he cannot afford to not-trinket a fear, at which point you can get a proper full CC chain with blind/sap/mc.


This isn't foolproof, and most warrior/druid and warrior/hunter teams will beat you if they play properly. The one advantage you have is that most warriors who play with druids are absolutely awful at the game and don't do anything except auto-attack and get carried by their healer. If you come up against an intelligent warrior who knows how to use a shield and drops berserker stance occasionally, plus doesn't line of sight his own healer and actively intervenes, you are fucked and you won't win. Good news is, there are not a lot of those warriors. We farmed 2 different warrior/druid and warrior/shaman teams because when we'd get a long CC chain on their healers, those retards would sit there with a 2h out auto attacking while getting destroyed - and this is at 2.1k+ rating.

 

moowalk

Yep that's pretty much what I was saying but expanded 50 times I run with a 'assist-rogue-dispel' macro which is amazing for druid teams. On the topic of hunter/druid in particular, our opening is normally 'sap hunter, burst pet'. The idea isn't to kill the pet, it's to get the druid to pop out while I'm still mounted.

Oh and on the topic of bad warriors: once we came across a warrior who put on a shield as soon as they saw us, and didn't take it off the whole match. The mind boggles how they got over 2k

 

Prevus

The original question was posed against druids paired with either rogues or warriors (you say yourself here that its impossible to win against non-idiot warriors) so any advice you can give on how to counter crip/hamstring in the two minutes between cooldowns would be helpful to me at least.

Well, I still disagree since your scenario seems to assume a lot about the match up that, to me at least, doesn't play into being able to "effectively" fear druids. You say that my point was wrong based only on one team make up. You also don't seem to factor in travel form to get farther away from us or feral charge to our partner if we get separated farther than the 8 yards our fear covers (which is still in the range of our heals). Also, when my old 2v2 team was just over 1800 we ran into a lot of druid/whatever teams that did not use mark so we did not know if it was a druid or rogue that we could not see (I guess or a mage who employed the same tactic, although I do not recall ever seeing a mage without AI in arena). I probably don't have as much experience as most of you guys, so I would really like to hear some answers to help me get better. I would love to be able to fear druids with some measure of consistency, so please do help with any additional information you might have.

 

Mearis

I am discussing from the pov of 2.1 k arena rated druid/warriors and telling you it is doable with good reliability. Stay out of line of sight until your rogue opens on the warrior, when the druid pops out to CC the rogue, you are still mounted and mount over to him and get the first fear off.

The second fear is largely a matter of a well timed trinket after a kidney shot on the warrior. The 20 yard on cyclone helps get close as well, as it can be fairly hard for the druid to stay ahead using only hots if you are dispelling like a madman.

The issue is that a very well played druid/warrior team will beat you almost always, but at your rating you are not likely to meet a lot of those. You also completely underestimate how much momentum matters in those matches. When the druid pops out for the first cyclone on your rogue after your rogue has opened on the warlock, it is crucial that the rogue clos's the first cyclone, so after the druid is feared he is doubly behind.

 

malthrin

How do you handle it when the Druid just unstealths with heals from max range on the other side of his partner instead of unstealthing nearby to Cyclone?

 

Mearis

My partner kidney shots the warrior, and I gallop over to the druid and fear him.

 

Prevus

Hardly...I understand momentum because that is one of the biggest tools any competitor has in any competition. I have to understand momentum or I cannot compete (not just in WoW) with others and hope to have any measure of success. Somehow I seem to have given you the impression that I do not, but that doesn't really matter. I understand that PvP in WoW (arena or BGs) is all about being prepared going into each situation (ie match in arena), using this preparation to control the situation and managing your resources throughout to ensure success.

Two questions, one for Mearis and the other for anyone:

Do you respec for arenas or are you shadow?
What is a good way to deal with crip/hamstring when your trinket is on cooldown?

 

Mearis

Yes, I pvp as disc/holy. I do not use the tri-spec.

Hobble away during a kidney shot - crippling > hamstring. Make sure to break line of sight asap so you cannot get intercepted. Remember that if the warrior chases you, the rogue gets to rape his back.

 

Zure

This is definitely the worst situation for you. If you simply play defensively, healing yourself, you'll almost certainly lose the mana war versus a druid that can sit at 40 yards and heal without having to worry about form shifting.

Dragging the warrior behind a pillar will force the druid to move, and with sufficient pressure he'll have to take the quickest route to his warrior, which places him very close to scream range.

Where this isn't possible, you can help burn the warrior, purging hots/abolish and slipping in SWP, MB, SW, to force the druid to do more than simply HoT heal. If he chooses to CC, he'll be more vulnerable.

It stands to reason that combining these is the best of all possible worlds. Drag the warrior behind a pillar, purge him clean, and unload with damage.

A well played team can counter these by having their warrior play defensively while the druid re-positions properly, but that doesn't happen at lower ratings, and the lessened damage output/reset from an intervene gives you time to drink/heal up/ move for mana burns and generally take some control back.

 

Darlal

When I tried out Rogue/Priest I'd often SS -> Gouge the druid to let my priest get in fear range.

 

jokermn

Hi there,

with S4 weapons coming up in the near future and lots of spellhaste pvp rewards I was wondering if it would make sense to use all of the spellhastegear in pvp instead of the healing alternatives. most of the times I manaburn and dispell. My healingspells are mostly instant. I know that stacking spellhaste would extremly fast dump my mana but I wonder if lowering the GCDs gives me the advantage that makes me win.

Long story short: would you get spellhaste PVP Rewards for PVP (apart from the S4 mace)?

 

Mearis

It depends entirely on what bracket you play and with what partner. For PMR I'd mix both up, and keep my healing up. For a two healer warrior team I'd defently stack haste. For 5 vs 5 I'd defently stack haste. For 2's I'd stack healing.

 

Necrostar

I'm quite sure this has been brought up b4 , but please forgive me.

My question is can Blessed Recovery , Focused Will , and Martyrdom all proc at the same time ? I've seen some debate about it , but no definitive answer.

 

rehtonAesoohC

Yes, they can... I'm not sure who said they can't all proc together, but they do.

What you're probably confusing is the effect that resilience has on proccing effects from critical hits. For instance, if you have a 10% crit reduction from resilience, then Blessed Recovery has a 10% chance to proc on every normal hit. The same is true for all other abilities that proc on hits, but each check is an individual roll, so the likelihood that all of them will proc at once is extremely small.

For instance, if there's a 10% chance to proc 3 things, the chance to proc all 3 things on the same swing is something like 0.1%. On a critical hit, all 3 things will proc as normal.

 

Howard Roark

This season has been a long upward slope in terms of how silly the damage I take is. I died within a single cheap shot - kidney shot today. Nearly 500 resilience, 12800hp. 100% to 0%, only incoming damage from 1 player. I'm glad it's level 60 again.

 

Mearis