Tainter

It's sad, but in 2v2 I never mass dispel. Literally never. In a drain tream, with a Hunter, it's often not a good way to use my mana. Paladins and Mages are no problem for us and there isn't anything else to Mass Dispel. In some setups it's not worth it in 2v2. Since I'm not hit-capped the 4% bonus to my main nukes is nice. I might drop it for the next expansion if there are too many other Disc things I want.

In 3v3 we often go for the Mage or Paladin and it's very useful.

In Battlegrounds it's awesome.

In Duels it can be nice.

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Jeddius

I'm teamed with a maces spec'd rogue right now for 2v2's. We're simply stuck in the 1400's and being shadow just isn't any fun for me. So I'm wondering how hard it would be for me to switch to disc? I have 408 resil right now so will I need all new PVP gear? What gear set do the disc priests use? I think I might have more success going to disc but just want to see what this will entail before I do it. thanks.

 

Tainter

Disc Priests use PvP Mooncloth gear. They need ~11k HP, 493 resilience and as much healing as they can get. Essentially Disc and Shadow use entirely different gear sets. However, at lower ratings it's entirely conceivable to play an aggressive combo with damage gear, bursting people down during CC combos. Your Rogue just needs to play defensively under pressure and peel enemies off you.

Without wanting to offend you, if you're at 1400 then you will probably find it difficult to pull the aggressive play off. Therefore you would probably need to re-gear. So late during the expansion I don't think it's worth it personally.

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ConditionKJ

If you have that much resil already i would say stick with it. The only issue I see is your partner. I don't know if mace spec is what your looking for, for the burst damage of Rogue/Spriest. I would say either Shadowstep or Mutilate. But don't quote me I don't know everything about rogues. Just throwin that out there.

 

Jeddius

Ok, I think I will stick with shadow for now then. I'm just frustrated b/c our team can't get above 1500! Would you guys mind taking a look at my armory and giving some advice on my PVP gear? I was thinking about getting the Alembic of Infernal Power from UB to add more resil in one of my trinket spots. Here's my armory link:


The World of Warcraft Armory

Thanks again for the help! I still am not sure how I'm going to move up in ranking, it sounds like the rogue has to be shadowstep pretty much? Is there another good class for me besides shs rogue?

 

UnholY_Prince

Not sure if your armory is broken, but none of your gear has enchants on it? Why? Your spell damage is pathetic, you probably don't have the DPS output to properly pressure a team above 1500.

Pickup the ~100 spell damage from your Head/Leg/Hands/Wrist Enchants, grab 15 Resi to Chest, Boar's Speed to Boots, Armor Pen to Cloak, and see how you do.

 

Tainter

You really want some enchants. I also don't understand why you don't pick up the gem-bonuses. Spell damage and resilience are good to have.

Tell us how you lose games. Do you die or the Rogue? Or do you run out of mana?

Combat is the worst spec for a Rogue in Arena at the moment. Does your Rogue respec for arena? His talents are for Fists. That and 1 point in Imp Kick is pretty silly. Either you PvE and you don't need it or you put 2 points in it. Simple.

The problem is that other Rogues will get the jump on yours and that his mobility isn't great once he's snared. That said, a skilled combat Rogue can stay on a target for quite some time if he gets dispelled.

Rogues are not the only option for Shadow Priests. An Affliction Warlock, Elemental Shaman or a Hunter probably work too.

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Jeddius

You guys bring up a good point about the enchants. I guess to be honest I've never been an expert on them, so I just ignore them sometimes because of my lack of unfamiliarity. I'm going to get this stuff enchant though now because of the comments.

Mainly we lose games because I will die. Usually because the rogue is stealthed I will get focused on. IE, a rogue mage combo will wipe me out in no time, even though I have almost 11k health. I've been trying to do a better job at los and such, but survivability is definetely an issue.

Other times it will get down to one opponent and my rogue as only ones being alive. It seems due to lack of shadowstep my rogue will get beat easier. I also think coordinating our CC is another reason we may lose sometimes. My rogue doesn't respec, should I be lobbying him to go sub and get shs?

Your comments about other rogues is spot on too. They can see him before he sees them and that causes a problem.
I think I'll get some enchants done and then repost my arena, if anyone else any suggestions/resources in the mean time it's greatly appreciated.

 

Tainter

If you die against certain teams then you have to play more defensively. Some abilities can be used defensively and offensively. Silence for example. If you die quickly use it against dps, if you don't kill quickly enough use it against a healer. If you are under attack by ranged you need to LoS. If you have time to heal yourself, do so. If you are under attack by melee, then your Rogue needs to help you get that enemy off. His snare is the most powerful in the game. So he snares someone, then stuns them while you can move out of LOS of that enemy. A Warrior snared by a Rogue should never get to you unless you want him to for example.

The game should pretty much always start off with your Rogue sapping someone. Then he opens up on the other enemy. All the while you stay mounted. After his opening move you move into range, near a LOS obstacle, you never want to be far from one of them, and open up on your opponent too. Between his stuns, snares and interrupts your enemy shouldn't be in a position to hurt you. When the sap breaks it's time for you to fear, ideally both enemies. After that you follow up with a Blind, Vanish, Sap combo and one of your enemies shoud die soon hopefully.

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Simmias

I used to have a tough time dealing with melee ( rogues/warrs are fairly easy hks now, but shamans still give me a tough time.) Until I specc'd into my current PvP spec's

41/3/17 for dealing with melee

Good advantages of this spec are:

5/5 Black Out: this can be a game breaker, that rogue/warr/pet stuns you? boom, if you have touch of weakness (forsaken priest) it procs off of it, so that same rogue sits there stunned for 3 secs. I guess if you rolled a human priest it wouldn't really help since you have to cast shadow spells for it to proc.

Imp SW:P,Imp Fear and Mindflay: Swp just because longer dots are always good, fear is obvious, and Mindflay because it helps kite warrs/rogues if you get a fear off and they trinket out of it.

Now i usually have 3/5 Silent resolve for those wondering WTF is with those points in Imp MB, i was just trying something out which turned out bad.

or 33/8/20 for silence vs castors: (Spell warding and Silence)

Silence is awsome combined with your own healing spells, and spell warding really does help vs high burst damage i.e mages and water ele's

Also, if you get the Furies deck card [Darkmoon Card: Vengeance]
Its very usefull for 2's or 3s since you always will be targeted and along with the reflective damage from reflective shield/dots and mindflay, it helps you kite extremely well, or makes them think its better attacking off another person.

Its proc's also dont give rage to warriors and can happen one after the other if your lucky (no cooldown and no rage is a always a good thing)

Also, remember to use Shadow Wordeath on mages for when they Poly you, they usually forget about you as soon as they have you poly'd.

This along with most of the other really awsome hints in this topic SHOULD easily get you to 1800+.

 

xFrancis147

I am a warlock and my 2v2 partner is a disc priest. We ended season 3 at roughly 1750 rating. Since season 4 began we have simply played casually in the 1500's waiting for all the gladiator teams to move up to what should be their respective rating. So, we have been playing games in our raid specs just to obtain some points. However, the time has come to get serious again.
There is an issue me and my partner always had back in season 3, his surviability. Now it doesn't help that his gear is subpar, but it's still decent to the point where, I think, more gear wont make a major difference. The big problems we are having are warriors, rogues, and enhance shamans. Warriors have been getting much easier as I have learned alot on how to properly help him. The old "dot everything" mindset the common warlock has, I've realized, is situational. When fighting a warrior he always makes sure to have his shield up on the warrior's focus target while I have CoW and no dots on the warrior. This is reducing his rage generation a lot. Enhance shamans are a problems due to purges, windfury (w.o the need for a totem), and tremor totem. LOS just isn't enough sometimes. Rogues are just insane. CloS renders my dots and fear obselete, stunlock renders my priest obselete, and the druid feral charging and hot'n or the priest mana burning and dispelling dots doesn't help us much either.
I would love to hear what other priest have to say about this so i can relay the info to him and then get back up to the 1700's when we begin playing seriously again.
Thank you.

 

Canoness

Last season me and my rogue partner were in the 1800's and now really cant get out of the 1700's and i have been browsing threw alot of highend priests and have notices that alot of them dont really seem to stack res gems any more its alwasy 3 15 stam gems in the chest and the epic stam res gem in the bracers everything els is a healing mp5 or int gem now is this a smart thing? im just wondering on whats a good amount of plus healing for me in arenas cause i have 430 res but still working on 3 pieces of gear which will give me another 42 res, so i was wonder what are the best gems i can stack in my gear

 

Marius

I hit 70 recently and plan on making a 2vs2 team with a rogue. I've been reading myself up on the discussion about talents here. Either it's not there, or I've missed it, have Holy Specialization vs Imp Renew been discussed?

As I see it, Imp Renew gives a reliable bonus to renew, about 63 extra per tick at 1000 +heal, and about 93 extra per tick at 2000 +heal (without Spiritual Healing which few arena priests have anyway and no Force of Will proccing), It's highly likely that you'll have Renew up and ticking anyway, and it's not depening on any RNG (apart from the lucky dispel resist with Silent Resolve and a shaman purging you). But that's 3 talent points for only one spell. Of course, it's a spell with no cast time and no cooldown.

On the other hand, Holy Specialization gives more. True, it's more RNG-based. Over time, though, it ought to give more benefit than Imp Renew. At least I believe so. There's one assumption, though; that it works with Prayer of Mending, when you're not the target yourself. I read somewhere that Earth Shield doesn't benefit from their +10% heal talent (Purification) unless they've shielded themselves.

If it does work on Prayer of Mending when you're not the target yourself, a crit gives ~1000 extra healing on PoM with 1000 +heal, ~1230 with 2000 +heal. Of course, just 5% more crit on PoM wouldn't be worth 5 talent points by far, but since it also gives additional crit chance on Flash Heal, Binding Heal (twice!) and Greater Heal, it's getting there. 5% extra crit on Smite, Holy Fire and Reflective Shields is icing the cake (it's not like you're going to crit a lot against high-resilience targets in the first place, but nice when you do). Ignoring the 5% extra crit chance on Holy Nova (it's uses doesn't included healing and damaging) and Prayer of Healing (Hardly ever used in arenas, as far as I know).

And that's the theorycraft for today... No, seriously, though, is it the RNG element that doesn't appeal, or am I missing something else entirely?

At lvl 80 in WotlK I suppose it'll be a lot more common because of the Divine Aegis talent.

 

moowalk

Firstly, heal crits are 150%.

Well, compare:

Renew which I have up much of the time against teams without an offensive dispeller. If the talent is worth 80 per tick with my +heal, with a 25% uptime on renew that's 4000 extra healing. With 10% uptime it's 1666 healing.

Holy spec gives me crit on stuff which I don't cast that often. The offensive utility is minimal since I have 8% crit without the talent, so the first couple of points will not increase crit against most targets. And when you do crit, it's a 150% crit before resilience.

To make up 1000 healing from +100% crit, I'd have to do 2,000 direct healing. For only +5% I'd have to do 40,000 direct healing. In ten minutes.

 

Tainter

Imp Renew is my choice.

How does Force of Will impact Renew? Force of Will is so unpopular because it doesn't improve healing. You are right though, Spiritial Healing is uncommon in the arena. Extinct at higher ratings.

Imp Renew is three talent points for a spell you will be permanently using, probably on multiple targets and except for dispelling it can't be countered. Holy Spec on the other hand does very little. 1 point increases the healing of your Greater Heal, Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Prayer of Healing and Circle of Healing by 0.5%, for a maximum of 2.5%. Half a percent output increase for a talent point is pretty atrocious. Prayer of Mending, Renew and Shield don't crit, nobody has Circle of Healing and nobody uses Prayer of Healing. Therefore half of your "heals" don't benefit from Holy Spec. So your total output is going to increase by something less than 0.25% per point I'd say. For me that's laughably little.

Oh yeah, Prayer of Mending doesn't crit. At least it never has for me. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. Binding Heal doesn't benefit double from Holy Spec, unless you use Surge of Light. You get two crit chances, but every one of the two crits only improves output by 25%. Granted, Greater Heal crits are nice. But they can lead to overhealing because people are better off topped-up than half dead.

The offensive crit would be a selling point if we had more crit. As it stands I have about 7% crit from Intellect and 0% from gear. With Holy Spec I therefore get to 12% total offensive holy crit. Sadly most people at higher ratings will have just about 12% less chance to be critically hit by spells. Therefore it does nothing unless your target is wearing PvE gear, which is now unusual.

I'm not quite sure wether Holy Spec actually affects Reflective Shield. I have done no testing, but I would be surprised if it did. But even if it did, people would be "immune" to your crit chance. Maybe come Wrath we all end up with ~25% crit and Holy Spec might just be worthwhile, until then it's garbage for PvP healing. And from what I hear it's garbage for PvE too. The only place I see for it is in a holy damage levelling build. I enjoyed Holy Spec from 58 to 70, then I dropped it.

On a final note, Holy Nova does get used for its damage against Snakes. But since Rank 3 takes care of them the crit of course isn't necessary.

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Jeddius

Ok, I'm working on my chants after the last couple posts. I recently teamed up with a lock, can someone give me some general tips on how to play with a lock?

How in the hell do we beat a rogue/dpriest or rogue/spriest combo? Of course their rogue is coming right to me, my lock has had some success in fearing the rogue but not enough and the rogue still kills me. I can't get any spells off because the rogue just slices and dices me. Any suggestions on how to beat this combo? I see that a couple posts earlier someone else was having this same problem but didn't see any responses to it yet.

Also, what enchant should I be using for my boots? Vitality or boar's speed? I"m getting mixed opinions.

To sum it up: i'm decent with my resto druid in arena but am tired of getting pwnd with my priest! i need help...somebody please tutor me on how to play this bastard! I'll do whatever it takes to get better!

 

moowalk

Be glad that the rogue is attacking you. You shouldn't beat good disc priest/rogues (and they will attack your lock).

 

Tainter

You picked a rather more tricky combo there, I'd say. It's workable but harder than Priest/Rogue. As a general sort of overview:

You should beat most 2 dps teams, even though Rogue/Mage combos can be tricky.
You should have a decent chance against Warrior/Healer teams.
Rogue/Healer teams will beat you more often than you will beat them. At even skill, they will win.

That last line is a problem because 2v2 is positively infested with Rogues. If half the teams you play are Rogue based teams then you'll probably not rise much in rating.

So what you really need to learn is how to beat Warrior/Healer and Rogue/Healer.

Against Warriors the Priest must be aggressively doing damage to the Warrior and dispelling his various buffs. The Warlock must CC the enemy healer with Deathcoil, Spell Lock, Fear, Curse of Tongues and so on to interrupt the healing. Often it's possible to kill a Warrior in the opening moments of a game like that. If this first gib fails then you have to survive until the enemy Healer is not affected by diminishing returns on Fear anymore and then try again. Outlasting often doesn't work unless the Priest can drink a lot, which isn't easy to do.

Against Rogue healer combos you need to fear the Rogue whenever possible. If the Rogue has a Paladin or Priest then you have to fear them both at the same time. The Lock fears the Healer then the Priest the Rogue. That way the Priest gets ~10 seconds every 27 seconds to recover before the Rogue is back. Enough time to heal up and have a few sips of Drink. Keep the other healer in combat with the Warlock pet and keep the pet alive. Against Paladin or Priest both of you should focus on burning or draining mana because you won't be able to do much damage. Throw a few dots when the Dispeller is feared. Curse of Weakness on the Rogue helps if Rogues kill you too quickly. Sadly you can't gib a Rogue like a Warrior because he will just cloak and get healed, or Cheat Death will proc and he will get healed. So you have to run the others out of mana, which is hard. Drink whenever you can. If the Rogue is on the Priest then the Lock has to pressure the other team by counter spelling heals, casting shadow bolts, mana draining and fearing. At higher ratings the Priest will usually be free to chase the enemy healer and drink while keeping the Warlock topped up.

Rogue/Shadow is easy to beat I think. Tongues on Priest, Weakness on Rogue, Fear Priest, Scream Rogue, use all cooldowns to survive, los Priest, Spell Lock Priest, Drain/Burn Priest, win. The Priest damage rarely is a problem for us and the Rogue will soon need heals. Then you're up against an inefficient Healer.

Good luck. Please ask more specific questions next time.

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• Calantus

If your PVP enchant/meta combo does not contain the words "minor speed increase", you need to rethink it (unless you have a talent that covers it). For priests this means you enchant boar's speed on boots. If anybody says different you can safely ignore them.

 

Seife

Always go with runspeed, it is essential. If you cannot get it through talents, you have to use boar's speed or a meta gem.

 

Tainter

Or if you're a cheapskate like me you could save some gold and just get minor speed increase. 90 HP don't mean an aweful lot to me anyway.

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pindle

You had 400+ resilience? In that case you should be able to keep yourself alive easily vs 1 rogue; just don't get your HP below 4-5k so he (and/or his mate) can burst you down. Renew shield pom binding heal should do the trick in keeping both you and your partner alive while the rogue is pounding you, unless maybe the opposing team severely outgears you.

 

Tainter

It's not that simple I'd say. If that's 400+ resilience from Season 1 gear and you face a Season 3 weaponed Rogue with the odd PvE item then that's gonna hurt. Their Priest is going to dispel his defences and then he's left with casting spells against a Rogue. And will subsequently die.

There's more to beating a Rogue with dispel/purge backup than 400+ resilience and spamming instants.

Staying out of line of sight of the Priest is absolutely vital.
Get your Rogue to snare their Priest then Gouge/Stun/Blind/Whatever the enemy Rogue. That gives you time to heal. Try to fear both at the same time. Fearing the Rogue alone means the Priest will throw him a dispel.

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surprrise

Hi everyone , im dwarf priest reasonably geared 11K5 pv 446 resi 1700 bonus heal , still i ve got some problem to get rid of rogues/warriors . does anyone has a few hints to help me increase my survivability .