Glyph of Spirit Redemption - Increases the duration of Spirit of Redemption by 6 seconds. (Old - All heals cast while Spirit of Redemption is active have a 20% chance to increase the remaining duration of Spirit of Redemption by 4sec.
Yeah I saw that the other day. SoR was cool and it did win me a couple games, but I think if you really want to be successful as a priest you must spec disc and go with comps that actually suit your needs. PMR is the first one that comes to mind.
Still the "hit it if its cloth" strategy is getting really old at this point.
Still the "hit it if its cloth" strategy is getting really old at this point.
I sometimes really wish that in order for anyone to be able to post about PvP balance they need to hit 1800+ with a priest or a warlock. Watching ret paladins or rogues or DKs spout stuff about healing being too strong in season4 makes me v. angry.
I sometimes really wish that in order for anyone to be able to post about PvP balance they need to hit 1800+ with a priest or a warlock. Watching ret paladins or rogues or DKs spout stuff about healing being too strong in season4 makes me v. angry.
One of the main reasons warlocks and priests were targeted every game in S3/S4 was that if you left them alone they would wreck you. Priests would run in and fear bomb at opportune times and just spam mana burn you, and warlocks would chain fear, mana drain and pretty much control your entire team.
Priests have (had?) such great offensive ability if left alone. That was always a big complaint as a shaman or paladin healer....if the other team left you alone you couldn't do anything to influence the outcome of the game because you didn't have CC or drain capabilities. I know that mana burn is no longer as effective as it once was, but if a priest is left alone they are such a headache that it's almost never worth it to do so.
That's one of the strengths of PMR, the last thing any team wants to do is leave a rogue and mage alone to tee off on their healers and so the priest often gets time to run around unmolested.
One of the main reasons warlocks and priests were targeted every game in S3/S4 was that if you left them alone they would wreck you. Priests would run in and fear bomb at opportune times and just spam mana burn you, and warlocks would chain fear, mana drain and pretty much control your entire team.
Priests have (had?) such great offensive ability if left alone. That was always a big complaint as a shaman or paladin healer....if the other team left you alone you couldn't do anything to influence the outcome of the game because you didn't have CC or drain capabilities. I know that mana burn is no longer as effective as it once was, but if a priest is left alone they are such a headache that it's almost never worth it to do so.
That's one of the strengths of PMR, the last thing any team wants to do is leave a rogue and mage alone to tee off on their healers and so the priest often gets time to run around unmolested.
You could ignore a priest (in terms of which target to attack) and still avoid fear and mana burn with fair consistency as almost any class. Not choosing to focus them doesn't mean you can't still be conscious of their positioning to ensure that you avoid fear/mana burn, especially since they neither remove snares nor move faster than normal run speed.
Originally Posted by Disposition
Yeah I saw that the other day. SoR was cool and it did win me a couple games, but I think if you really want to be successful as a priest you must spec disc and go with comps that actually suit your needs. PMR is the first one that comes to mind.
Still the "hit it if its cloth" strategy is getting really old at this point.
Perhaps it's just due to the teams that I've been finding myself facing the most often, but I've tried just about every spec I could come up with, but I feel like I prefer 50/21 with the SoR glyph over a traditional disc spec in every bracket but 2s.
SoR has pretty much carried my team to 1811 in 3v3, I might still go 37/34 with the new sor glyph and see how that works, lightwell works wonders for keeping me up, more so then pain suppression, I have found. And blessed resilience still seems very nice.
Does anyone know how 37/34 works with a rogue in 2v2? or am i better off with a full disc spec? I only did about 10 games to get some points this week with a pve spec rogue but we might try and become more serious and up our rating if we are decent.
It seems that the top priests in the world, at least according to SK gaming, are specced heavy disc. I was bored at work and just browsing around the top ranked priests in the world and I didn't come across any using SoR.
A quick glace at the top 100 5s teams and it is easy to see the dominance of paladins and death knights. Out of the top 50 fives team only 6 of them didn't run at least one pally, while several of them had two. There looked to be 60% top 50 with Death Knights. I would think it would be very hard for blizzard to overlook this and I'm hoping this is the reason the patch keeps getting delayed, then again other have been screaming this since beta.
Now I'm not saying the people are hacks or something, but they are clearly higher rated than other classes who are being played by more skilled players, and there in lies the problem. I clearly know my limitations but when you get killed by some keyboard turning Death Knight in blues cause he is tunneling you with some other scrub ret pally it get really frustrating. I have so much time invested in my priest that I am reluctant to give him up. If this keeps up I may have no choice but to quit or move to my mage.
Just looking at this comp makes me find the title of this thread more and more ironic: 궁동이 - Team - Arena Junkies
As some of you may remember, GC made some controversial statements at the start of the season about how evaluating class balance early on would be difficult because resilience would change things massively.
The exact quote was:
Resilience will make a difference - remember that not only is PvP gear itemized for resilience, but it uses up points that would normally be spent on +dps. The defenses are not only higher, but the offenses are lower. Furthermore, once players can survive for a few seconds, it tends to force everyone to worry about defenses once again. Will resilience make enough of a difference? That is something we are discussing right now.
I recently nearly finished my PvP gear, but my survivability was not increasing at all, so I decided to ask a few guildmates to help me out verifying how well did prest survivability scale with the added resilience. My guildmates were all too happy for a chance to kill me over and over again, so here is a fun WWS log:
This isn't funny because it is a quick kill, this one is funny because he intentionally let his energy tick up to full to see his max ferocious bite. This is without expose armor or any buffs whatsoever:
11:38'18.823 Gehha Ferocious Bite hits Mearis for 10404 Physical. (Critical)
This is on a target with 800 resilience and inner fire. Probably would have been around ~15000 or so on a mage.
Whenever GC says ' wait for resilience to fix shit ' remember that unbuffed ferocious bites for 10000 on targets with 800 resilience are balanced, and that rogues should kill priests alone in under 3 seconds, afterall, if a ret paladin cannot faceroll to 1800 playing dk/ret without doing anything as much as a target switch/interrupt/cc chain, what exactly would happen?
Well, to be honest, resilience does help, a lot. Unfortunately, it just isn't enough right now, but I don't think its a global issue, really (As resilience really tames Lock/Warrior and other "normal" class damage). My fiance plays a priest, unfortunately, I can't even do 2's with her because of how many rogues are swarming the 2's bracket, but there are a few things I noticed.
Almost all rogue skills are balanced around energy usage, I know, duh, right? But Vigor+Glyph+Set+Overkill+Dirty deeds means that energy usage is almost irrelevant during that opening. A rogue can cheap, mut, evis (Auto crit), mut and then kidney with at least 4 combo points. I mean, these moves were *never* meant to be chained together like this, ever, not in any reality. We are talking a chain that costs 250 energy being done in 5 seconds because of how deep the pool is and how ridiculous the efficiency is.
The worst part is, these talents are all burst, and have absolutely no large significance in PvE environments. It just really makes me scratch my head as to why all these bypasses to one of the only limiting mechanics was given to rogues...Its like warriors with full rage bars who have their cool downs taken away for 10 seconds after an intercept, its pretty crazy, those limiters are there for a reason.
What I'm scared of though is that blizzard will attempt lazy global fixes, rather then brushing some of these stupid talent synergies over with a precise review pass. It feels like the game is really close to be very cool, and very fun, but these outliers, ridiculous things like DK cool downs, or arcane potency affecting PoM, or command auto crit on stuns, or rogue overkill stupidity are ruining *a lot*..(Sudden death was one of these outliers, to, it makes me scratch my head though as to why *that* was fixed first, I guess it being one talent, rather than a combination, made it easier to discuss.)
Using cheapshot/kidney shot is almost a waste unless the target is another rogue. You are almost always better off now ambushing/eviscerating with how fast people die.
11:38'18.823 Gehha Ferocious Bite hits Mearis for 10404 Physical. (Critical)
This is all to familar. My priest friend got crit for over 10k in an arena just the other day also by a feral druid. He has around 900 resil atm. I really can't see how resil is going to fix anything when people can still crit for these kinds of numbers without cooldowns.
Using cheapshot/kidney shot is almost a waste unless the target is another rogue. You are almost always better off now ambushing/eviscerating with how fast people die.
True for the first one, but not for the second vanish/opener, that is usually a garrote now, then the prep vanish/opener is usually the cheap/kidney.
I guess that is part of the problem, even if you react in the 3-5 second window that your priest has, you only buy the priest maybe 2-3 seconds before he had another opener on him.
Our fights usually went like this.
Priest--Ambush/Evis/Mut-20% life.
Rogue-Intercepted/Hamstring by warrior
Priest-Pain supression/desperate prayer-50% life.
Rogue-Blind, warrior (Trinket to pierce, but CCd by partner)
Rogue-Vanish
Priest-Garrote (GCD's used to desperate/supress)+Evis+mut
Priest-fear (usually dead, by now, but we met some blue geared rogues even at 1700 =-/)
Rogue-Cloak, damage, vanish, cheap, mut
Priest dead
About 15 seconds, even if we do everything perfectly, we can't prevent her death. That is mainly because the rogue is attacking from stealth three times in such a small window. Because of overkill and dirty deeds his moves are tons tons more efficient because they are all happening within these 6 second stealth windows that are provided by his multiple vanishes...In short, his escapes have allowed him to chain an offensive talent together that was only meant to be used as an opener once (Even then its too strong)..So, like with every other overpowered class at the moment, his defense is both making him impossible to stop and greatly increasing his offensive potency.
Nice work on the wws. I have close to 750 resilience in my pvp gear and went 2-6 to a mage, feral, rogue team one night. I was rolled in 6-7 seconds every time. Even if I did wait to trinket the ks I would be counter spelled immediately and die.
Mearis what kind of gear did the rogue have? Straight pve 25 man stuff?
Mutilate rogues get stupid amounts of combo points due to cold blood + other talent synergy.
He was playing with PvP gear and a PvP spec since I didn't want to skew the numbers using a PvE mutilate rogue. He has just about everything from the 25 mans though I think.
What I find particularly telling is that it is not really the crits that kill you - if you look at my log, very few hits are crits. It is just the damage is absurdly high, and wound poison hits for ~450 now.
I would really like to see a spin off from this thread specifically for shadow survival. Skimming through the thread I start to get good information then someone says something that is incorrect for shadow or wouldn't apply to s.Priests.
Timing of Dispersion uses against certain OP classes; Use of Fade and when to and when not to use it. Dispelling for self healing (use r1 dispel?); I have been developing my own theories as I have been leveling as I plan on getting back into arena again (glutton for punishment :P )
I would do it myself but I can never find an opportunity to make a good post. So I'm still @ reply only
Specifically, comps that are good for 3v3+. 2v2 spriest comps haven't really changed all that much (except lock + spriest doesn't equate to insta-win now), but I've no idea what would work for 3v3 or 5v5. Any ideas?
SoR has pretty much carried my team to 1811 in 3v3, I might still go 37/34 with the new sor glyph and see how that works, lightwell works wonders for keeping me up, more so then pain suppression, I have found. And blessed resilience still seems very nice.
Does anyone know how 37/34 works with a rogue in 2v2? or am i better off with a full disc spec? I only did about 10 games to get some points this week with a pve spec rogue but we might try and become more serious and up our rating if we are decent.
I tried out a focused will + blessed resilience spec for a while, but respecced because I found that my ability to keep my partner alive was far too lacking. It felt like almost any team that attacked my teammate would automatically win when I was this spec.
Last edited by Gourd : 01/18/09 at 4:47 AM.
Reason: typo
I would really like to see a spin off from this thread specifically for shadow survival. Skimming through the thread I start to get good information then someone says something that is incorrect for shadow or wouldn't apply to s.Priests.
Timing of Dispersion uses against certain OP classes; Use of Fade and when to and when not to use it. Dispelling for self healing (use r1 dispel?); I have been developing my own theories as I have been leveling as I plan on getting back into arena again (glutton for punishment :P )
I would do it myself but I can never find an opportunity to make a good post. So I'm still @ reply only
Two main things I think you have to remember about playing Shadow, first thing is that the first five seconds of any fight will make or break you. Actually, they'll just break you because if you execute it badly you WILL lose, whereas if you execute it correctly, you MIGHT win. The second thing is that dealing with melee is mostly about forcing them to chase you.
Against death knights you can really go far with this--fade and dispel should allow you to run around, dispelling their diseases and hurting them with your dots. If they get impatient and death grip you, fear them as you land and hit the ground running (obviously, don't fear if they're AMSed). You may want to save fade to get a guaranteed clear of chains when you fear them, as you need to gain ground during the second or so before they find their trinket. If you survive to your second fear cooldown, you should win.
Against rogues, I usually use dispersion on the opening stunlock, generally once they make it clear they intend to blow their wad. They can restealth but they'll have much less energy to build a big opener. Unfortunately, I don't have any systematic way to know when to use the other abilities, other than to suggest that you try to "read" them and make your getaway when they're not ready to respond. I'm still working on this bit. If you have a partner to help you peel them, that would be when to use fade. If you don't, you're probably going to lose.
(Also, you should keep in mind that this is mostly based on BG experience, as the line to play arena with my shadow priest isn't very long. They did help a bit in very low-ranked arena, but you will probably get less mileage against OP people who aren't idiots.)
Against rogues, I usually use dispersion on the opening stunlock, generally once they make it clear they intend to blow their wad.
I've seen this in duels with rogues if you try to dispersion too early after they engage you they will vanish and reset the fight. I have been thinking of if you use your trinket on cheap shot and fear them, they will trinket themselves and come back at you with Kidney Shot. My hope is that the rogue will get cocky and think he can just Cloak of Shadows and burn me down through the KS, then I would disperse. They may still vanish but I feel that I've made him pop a few Cooldown's for having to use mine. My biggest concern is using my Cooldown's too early then feel like I'm defenseless for the next 2-3 minutes.
Originally Posted by Whatev
(Also, you should keep in mind that this is mostly based on BG experience, as the line to play arena with my shadow priest isn't very long. They did help a bit in very low-ranked arena, but you will probably get less mileage against OP people who aren't idiots.)
Haha, I understand where your coming from, most people once learning I wasn't disc acted like I had 50 resil or something when I was almost capped in TBC. On that topic though it seems like the only 2s partner we can be successful with is a rogue....I was pretty sad when I heard that locks were very lackluster. That basically eliminated my 2s setup I played s2-4 with which I loved. Would any other caster fit the s.priest / caster setup we enjoyed in TBC? Or is S.priest / melee be best setup in the current state of PvP?
I've seen this in duels with rogues if you try to dispersion too early after they engage you they will vanish and reset the fight. I have been thinking of if you use your trinket on cheap shot and fear them, they will trinket themselves and come back at you with Kidney Shot. My hope is that the rogue will get cocky and think he can just Cloak of Shadows and burn me down through the KS, then I would disperse. They may still vanish but I feel that I've made him pop a few Cooldown's for having to use mine. My biggest concern is using my Cooldown's too early then feel like I'm defenseless for the next 2-3 minutes.
Haha, I understand where your coming from, most people once learning I wasn't disc acted like I had 50 resil or something when I was almost capped in TBC. On that topic though it seems like the only 2s partner we can be successful with is a rogue....I was pretty sad when I heard that locks were very lackluster. That basically eliminated my 2s setup I played s2-4 with which I loved. Would any other caster fit the s.priest / caster setup we enjoyed in TBC? Or is S.priest / melee be best setup in the current state of PvP?
Obviously you don't want to use your dispersion if the rogue is waiting for you to use it, but the thing is that in 1v1 against a rogue with any sort of idea what he is doing, you are pretty much screwed no matter what you do. You have to act like they're stupid because you have no chance unless they're stupid--and fortunately, they often are because they're spoiled by their own power. I'd approach it somewhat differently if you have a partner who can peel effectively, because then you might be better off using the trinket. It's a judgement call that depends a lot on who the rogue's partner is, also. If they're running a one-and-done sort of DPS combo that relies on opening burst to gain an advantage, dispersion may still be the best option.
I play RMP and if I duel our rogue (as arcane) 9 out of 10 times I die in garrote > cloak.
Before the garrote fades I took about 10k damage already. I might get off 1 blink but with all poisons on me there is no chance every i'm getting away. Only working thing i've done so far is iceblock garrote, pop mirror image and invis. Mirror images are so bugged that they get him out of stealth the whole time anyway.
Regardless of rogues like that, our priest is having around 800 aswell now and he DOES live alot longer. Or can atleast keep up from 1 single dps most of the time. Whereas before me and rogue peeling didn't seem to have any effect.
A lot of the problem classes are pretty much impossible to peel though - a ret/DK/arcane mage triple DPS just runs in, zergs someone drown, drops anti-magic zone/bop to survive retaliation, then resets the fight and the ret paladins plays as healer in the final 2 vs 3.
A lot of the problem classes are pretty much impossible to peel though - a ret/DK/arcane mage triple DPS just runs in, zergs someone drown, drops anti-magic zone/bop to survive retaliation, then resets the fight and the ret paladins plays as healer in the final 2 vs 3.
Against ret/DK/arcane, at least as a shadow priest, I'd try to have my teammates screen me for a second while moving in, silence the mage right off the bat and try to force an early ice block, using trinket to do so if necessary. If you have a teammate that can peel or at least stun (and if you don't, your comp is probably unviable) they might even be able to prevent the DK or ret from starting DPS for 3-4 seconds. Against that comp your only hope is to get their DPS train out of sync... because as you mention, once they get on you it's almost impossible to peel them.
I've tried to read a lot of what has been said, but as a priest who specs heavy discipline for arenas (holy for raiding if anyone cares), I'm beginning to believe that only a couple classes are imbalanced. Rogues can kill me in less than 5-8 seconds (if they are smart and have the best weapons, which everyone does). Even if resilience saves me from dying in their initial burst, the fact that wound poison is now 50% on the first application essentially makes it impossible to heal through, especially while getting kicked or possibly being attacked by another player. I would pretty much give away anything I have to be a dwarf and have stoneform to remove wound poison, which is now my second least favorite aspect of pvp/arena (strangulate is #1). Also, since every rogue is mutilate, they have fleet footed and if they are worth anything they don't need to use crippling poison, opting for mind-numbing instead. So with every good rogue using mind numbing and wounding, couple with the really high burst damage they are capable of, I find it nearly impossible to live versus a rogue barring extreme luck (at least 1v1). Playing without a paladin for BOP is pretty much asking to get destroyed by a rogue in the first 20 seconds of every game. Other players can obviously give their best effort to peel or CC the rogue, but still, this one player class is capable of superior damage output and has very powerful debuffs placed on the focus target (95% of the time it is me).
Feral druids are the other class that seems slightly out of line compared to everyone else. They don't have the powerful debuffs that rogues have, but their damage seems to be the same or better (again, if they have the best gear). A lot of the time, they will open with pounce, I'll shield once it is over, fear, and POM myself and then get feral charged. Usually, that isn't even enough to save me from the incoming ferocious bite crit.
Obviously both of these situations are based on other classes opening on me, and most of the time I either have a BOP available or another healer present. The part that is kind of screwy is that most of this burst damage can happen in 1-2 global cooldowns. If the other healer gets sheeped, trinkets out, holy shock--> begins to cast the hasted holy light, against any decent team I'd already be dead.
Sure, we don't lose to rogues/feral druids every time we play a team with one because we can CC when needed, but the fact still remains that these two classes put out a lot more burst than most, at least from my point of view. I'm not afraid of warriors, death knights, arcane mages, hunters (although I'm not a big fan of how fast viper sting burns mana nowadays), etc. All of those classes can get lucky crit strings and kill me, but more often than not I can heal through it, kite, something to that effect. Maybe rogues/feral druids are the anti-priest and it is designed this way, but I have this gnawing feeling in the back of my mind that my 2s and 3s teams would be much better without me. I feel semi-useful in 5s, but I usually live through about 10 seconds of damage, a BOP, pain suppression when the BOP is over and pray that we have killed one of theirs before they kill me. To be honest, just thinking about it now I think my 5s team could probably do well with a non-priest healer instead of me.
I didn't mean to sound all "woe is me," but I've never been this frustrated in arena. I've never been frustrated with battlegrounds. I love PvP and I've always been successful, but there is something missing from the priest's survivability right now.
01/12/09, 8:43 AM
Similar Threads
