So, how many people are now looking at Body and Soul for PvP. There has been a lot of discussion around Spirit Based 33/38 Disc / Holy as a fantastic 2s, and 3s partner.
It's quite good when you're trying to get away from melee, especially if you have someone who can snare whoever is whacking at you. But I think you'd really need a partner(s) who can reliably get you out of the kind of trouble you'd usually save PS for.
It's quite good when you're trying to get away from melee, especially if you have someone who can snare whoever is whacking at you. But I think you'd really need a partner(s) who can reliably get you out of the kind of trouble you'd usually save PS for.
Yes but every partner should be able to do that. Every single class in the game has some kind of snare, root, or mobility reducing effect, and the result when combined with a 60% movement buff and a shield means you had better be gone, around the pillar, see yah later.
I just messed with a body and soul spec, and found it to be awful. Having to stand and cast Flash heals for any kind of healing throughput is basically a 100% loss because it leaves you so, so wide open to lockouts and other interupt chains. I missed penance immensely. The Innerfire glyph is also amazing so far.
Last edited by Zaq : 04/18/09 at 4:06 PM.
Reason: indefinite articles are too hard.
"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali
Yes but every partner should be able to do that. Every single class in the game has some kind of snare, root, or mobility reducing effect, and the result when combined with a 60% movement buff and a shield means you had better be gone, around the pillar, see yah later.
Priests are the least mobile class in the game (I'm not trying to make a point as to whether this is right or wrong), and can do nothing about the snares/immobilization/etc abilities of half the classes. As far as the body and soul spec goes, unless you're paired with a class that can aid you against some snares (and who can survive well on their own, since your throughput is bad) of the aforementioned classes, there's no question in my mind that you're better off with penance. The only classes I would even try it with I think would be ret paladin and maybe death knight.
Priests are the least mobile class in the game (I'm not trying to make a point as to whether this is right or wrong), and can do nothing about the snares/immobilization/etc abilities of half the classes. As far as the body and soul spec goes, unless you're paired with a class that can aid you against some snares (and who can survive well on their own, since your throughput is bad) of the aforementioned classes, there's no question in my mind that you're better off with penance. The only classes I would even try it with I think would be ret paladin and maybe death knight.
Yah, reading elsewhere has convinced me that it is largely a red herring. An incredible talent, but you lose too much to get access to it.
What are people doing about the new arms warriors? My primary strategy currently seems to be get hamstrung, have a cast overpowered, and then keel over dead. (Some Hyperbole). I'm just not sure what we can really do with all the bleeds bypassing armor, and bladestorm on a shorter cooldown than PS.
"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali
What are people doing about the new arms warriors? My primary strategy currently seems to be get hamstrung, have a cast overpowered, and then keel over dead. (Some Hyperbole). I'm just not sure what we can really do with all the bleeds bypassing armor, and bladestorm on a shorter cooldown than PS.
Kill them, and do so quickly. You're not going to be able to tank them effectively; I too get wrecked by arms warriors if they're able to stick on me for 15-20s without being forced to go defensive. Engage with great momentum, being extremely offensive in the initial encounter to force the warrior to either go defensive or die before you start getting too far behind.
As simple as it sounds, running away really cuts down the damage. It seems like Bladestorm removes the +speed enchant temporarily.
Why would a warrior bladestorm on a priest kill target without having them imp hamstrung or at least hamstrung? Unless the priest is paired with a paladin, getting away really isn't an option if the warrior has any idea what he's doing.
Why would a warrior bladestorm on a priest kill target without having them imp hamstrung or at least hamstrung? Unless the priest is paired with a paladin, getting away really isn't an option if the warrior has any idea what he's doing.
Essentially it's impossible for a priest to escape a warrior on his own for any significant length of time, if the warrior knows what he's doing. You'll have to rely on teammates to CC the warrior, or aid them in killing the warrior or his healer quickly. Start off with an MC to draw out the pummel, then either wait for the CC from your teammate and trinket+run, or focus on healing and helping burn the target.
I have to admit to a lack of arena experience, but looking at the top rated comps I don't think this is an issue that's going to go away, basically an expansion of the above question. What do people do against resto druid/arms warrior comps in 2v2?
Personally I run with a rogue, and I don't even know where to begin against this. As stated above, tanking an arms warrior for any length of time will either result in you being burst down or running out of mana/cd's. Tunnelling the warrior is pointless with all hots running on them, while switching to the druid seems almost as pointless, as the warrior peels you while the tree form makes druids unkillable for a rogue (as far as I can see). Mana burns are useless, if you manage to get many off, as superior druid regen will usually keep them safe, and if not, barkskin & innervate means they don't even have to LoS you. Compare this to our channeled hymn or CC'able & killable shadowfiend. So I can't win a mana-war. Add to this that even cc'ing seems useless against 2 classes effectively immune to fear. On one occasion a half-decent cc train managed to split one team and we both went all out on the warrior, at which point he swapped in a shield went defensive. He didn't even look troubled before the druid got back in range.
Sorry if this sounds like asking for hand-holding, but I am literally at a loss with this comp. Is there a viable strategy that I'm overlooking?
Try to force the warrior out of line of sight of his druid, and stun him there. Depending on the situation/positioning/the warriors health, either go for a fear on the druid as he's coming into los or just nuke the warrior. It won't work against competent teams, but we haven't fought many of those yet, and there's still value in knowing how to win against the bad teams.
Try to force the warrior out of line of sight of his druid, and stun him there. Depending on the situation/positioning/the warriors health, either go for a fear on the druid as he's coming into los or just nuke the warrior. It won't work against competent teams, but we haven't fought many of those yet, and there's still value in knowing how to win against the bad teams.
To add to that: dispel hots on the warrior BEFORE you start to burst him. Once the warrior is without HoTs on him, stun and burst (help your rogue with damage!) and try to blind or fear the druid when he tries to get in line of sight of the warrior. If the druid is foolish enough to open with a Rejuvenation (to try to Swiftmend it) try to dispel it off. If the druid opens with Lifebloom->Rejuvenation, it's still worth trying to dispel. Anything else (for example, Lifebloom->Lifebloom->Rejuvenation->Swiftmend) is probably not worth trying to dispel.
Has anyone been able to find any strategies for a warlock priest team? It seems I have searched everywhere with no joy. I am currently unable to play for the next couple months due to my job and looking for a strategy of any build combos that would make this team effective. I am split between disc/affliction and shadow/affliction, and I have seen both these teams on arena junkies are doing pretty well if anybody could tell me where to find a list of strategies that would be appreciated.
I've actually been running that on my alt and we're really having issues. We capped at like 1780 or so and tanked a bunch today. As destro you can basically shock the hell out of people sometimes and just gib a healer off a fear (druids especially), but if the melee just sits on your warlock the whole game it is really difficult. Today we played a game where the DK, doing nothing but sitting on one target, did 350k damage and the lock did 150k.
I think most of the high-rated teams play affliction, though. I just don't know how to reliably beat rogue teams with a warlock, and any competent double melee DPS team seems really hard too.
I've actually been running that on my alt and we're really having issues. We capped at like 1780 or so and tanked a bunch today. As destro you can basically shock the hell out of people sometimes and just gib a healer off a fear (druids especially), but if the melee just sits on your warlock the whole game it is really difficult. Today we played a game where the DK, doing nothing but sitting on one target, did 350k damage and the lock did 150k.
I think most of the high-rated teams play affliction, though. I just don't know how to reliably beat rogue teams with a warlock, and any competent double melee DPS team seems really hard too.
Hasn’t the destro/demo spec become a lot more feasible to pvp with due to the fact that you can get soul link as well now for some sort of survivability, as well as having shadow fury instant cast so it can be used on the move. I remember pre-wrath playing on my lock with decent gear in S1 and S2 and I stood no chance with my druid healer if there was a rogue or warrior on me. That is another combo though I have been hearing nothing but good about until you reach the higher ratings, destro lock/ disc priest. Although, once you reach around the 1800 rating with it I hear it is harder to be successful because you start seeing seriously good team after good team it is not as quite effective due to the fact that teams will make less mistakes to capitalize off of and this team relies on mistakes to take advantage of unless, of course, RNG.
Has anyone been able to find any strategies for a warlock priest team? It seems I have searched everywhere with no joy. I am currently unable to play for the next couple months due to my job and looking for a strategy of any build combos that would make this team effective. I am split between disc/affliction and shadow/affliction, and I have seen both these teams on arena junkies are doing pretty well if anybody could tell me where to find a list of strategies that would be appreciated.
Arena Junkies ... Been up there for a while. I hear running afflict at higher ratings gives you more mobilty. Kite and Dot.
What do other people think? As a disc priest Its very hard to outlast a good prot specced pally or resto druid. Is it better to just get crit gear for more crit heals? Or is stacking spirit still worth it? I want to hear what other people think.
What do other people think? As a disc priest Its very hard to outlast a good prot specced pally or resto druid. Is it better to just get crit gear for more crit heals? Or is stacking spirit still worth it? I want to hear what other people think.
Spirit.
Almost every loss I have in 2v2 is due to getting wtfraped by a chain of stun/silences or (far more likely) going out of mana. Most losses in threes is due to getting chain CC'd or going out of mana. Throughput is rarely the true issue, and "sometimes 50% better" throughput is not dependable enough to be worth it.
Furthermore, Crit-healing builds require a lot of talent point investment (Holy Spec, Divine Aegis, etc)
This seems to pick up all the neccesary talents, leaving 7 left, which can be used to pick up PI, searing light, or can be used to fill out blessed recovery, rapture, divine aegis, etc.
This seems to pick up all the neccesary talents, leaving 7 left, which can be used to pick up PI, searing light, or can be used to fill out blessed recovery, rapture, divine aegis, etc.
Any thoughts?
Oh, and is PI viable in any setup?
I consider Divine Fury to be vastly superior to Spell Warding. I play very offensively, and cannot imagine playing without Divine Fury.
Here is a spec showing only the necessary talents, that I think almost everyone will agree on: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (I would've taken points out of enlightenment, as it is not necessary, but it is obviously required to have 50 points in the tree in order to pick up penance :p).
Allow me to explain.
Tier 1: Unbreakable Will is an obvious choice, and is one of our stronger talents. Tier 2: Imp Inner Fire is great because it increases both the armor and spellpower granted in addition to increasing the number of charges. Silent Resolve is situational (since you're not always going to be facing a dispeller), but almost everyone still considers it to be worth it because of how crippling dispels are to us. Both Imp Fort and Martyrdom are viable choices also, with the latter generally taking precedence over the former. I've gone back and forth on speccing martyrdom, and don't notice a huge difference either way. When I do spec it, the things I have in mind are Mass Dispel, Mana Burn, and cleave in 3s since I can't afford to juke. Tier 3: These are all fairly obvious. If you were wearing the full crit (satin) as opposed to the spirit set (mooncloth), an argument could easily be made that this isn't worth picking up, however I don't recommend going that route. Tier 4: Unlike in the past (pre 3.1), mental agility is now the obvious choice if forced to choose between it and absolution. Most people will end up picking absolution up when they fill the rest of the points in, but since I left this more open for individuals who might be more inclined to spec deeper into holy, it is not absolutely necessary. Tier 5: Mental Strength and Soul Warding are both obvious choices, especially with int being the only stat that scales our mana return spells. Reflective shield is debatable, especially with it only working on the priest, however I would almost always recommend it for 2v2. This talent basically grants you the ability to compete 1v1 with almost any class in the game, and that is a power that can be very useful despite arena not generally involving 1v1s. Tier 6: Focused Power is an obvious choice, having a quick mass dispel to land right as bubble/ice block/bop does can absolutely be game breaking, and the 0.5s cast time leaves much less opportunity for it to be interrupted. It is also the closest thing we have to a "spellpower talent" (such as Holy Guidance, Spiritual Guidance, Improved Tree of Life, or Twisted Faith). Enlightenment is not a necessary talent, but it is highly regarded as 6% haste for 3 talent points is fairly generous. When people choose not to pick this up, it's generally because there's just some other talent that they deem to be more necessary or advantageous, as opposed to skipping it because it's just not good. Tier 7: Focused Will and Power Infusion are obvious choices. I might spec imp flash heal for larger brackets, but I can't really justify speccing into it for 2s. You really shouldn't be casting flash heal much. Tier 8: Aspiration is obvious. Rapture is still worthwhile after the nerf, and while it still interrupts drinking it's at least less often than it used to be. Renewed hope isn't bad, but I wouldn't put more than 1 talent point into it (since having 1 point as opposed to 2 only reduces the chance it will proc, while the proc does not lose any potency). Most people picked this up just for the dispel fodder, but if you have 1 point to spare it's definitely not bad. Tier 9: Pain Suppression is obvious. Grace is definitely worth putting at least 1 point into, and I wouldn't even consider only leaving 1 point in unless I was going deeper into holy and was very strapped for talent points. Divine Aegis isn't bad without crit gear, but it's hard to make room for it (you'd probably want to swap enlightenment for it if anything). It'll work out to an additional ~6-9% crit depending on gear (assuming you're wearing a piece or two with crit) and talents.
I consider Divine Fury to be vastly superior to Spell Warding. I play very offensively, and cannot imagine playing without Divine Fury.
Here is a spec showing only the necessary talents, that I think almost everyone will agree on: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (I would've taken points out of enlightenment, as it is not necessary, but it is obviously required to have 50 points in the tree in order to pick up penance :p).
Ok so i ended up not putting points into matyrdom or grace as i really shouldn't be casting much anyways. I did put points into imp flash heal as if a target were losing health fast and i had a chance to cast, that 10% extra crit would be a life saver.
Now one last question...
Which two (of the three) talents are worth spending points in (looking at absolution, blessed recovery, and enlightenment)? The entra mana saved would be nice, but how often is one dispelling? Enlightenment's extra haste is nice, but how useful exactly? And is blessed recovery worth what it once was? Or just another place to throw in points?