The new PvP trinket removes all movement impairing effects and all forms of CC, while being on a two minute cool down. While this is a great change for those who lack CC, I have one gripe about it:
The trinket removes hamstring and other snares, which doesn't prevent you from doing anything but move at full speed, you can attack, cast and move while debuffed.

Now, why wouldn't it remove silence and school lock down effects? All casters are affected by this, more so paladins and shamans, and you can't do anything but move and cast other school spells during the duration. I feel that this is a greater form of 'control' than any type of snare.


Allowing the PvP trinket to remove silence and school lock down would give players more freedom and give healers a break. Remember that the trinket would still have a long cool down, far longer than any silence effect. In addition to this the caster would be susceptible for a 2nd type of CC until the trinket is off cd again.

Thoughts?

You can apply hamstring quickly again, as long as you have the rage for it.

And it is very easy to tell if someone has the moving impairment debuff on from the graphics,

Removing Silence would be an interesting change, but the devs don't think so. Dealing out silience/school lockouts makes Rogues and Warriors very powerful PvP characters, and removing that abilty would make them weaker, and especially Rogues need all the help they can get.

The trinket removes roots as well, some of which (such as frost nova) aren't very easily reapplied. In fact you could make a direct comparison between frost nova and counterspell, since they both share a similar cooldown. Frost nova can be removed using the pvp trinket, silence or lockdown cannot. The silence/lockdown basically removes the majority of the control from a caster character, it seems kind of silly that the trinket does not remove these effects.

Of course, looking at it from the opposite perspective, for melee classes the pvp trinket doesn't teleport you into melee range with your current target either (and would be horribly overpowered if it did).

It's ok I can do that myself.

Undead Warriors are Imba!

It's also currently bugged to remove UA without blowing you up currently. (This has been stated as a bug I'm positive, but if it wasn't it would add an interesting demention to this).

However, how many times do you run into just 1 character trying to lock you out of casting, especially as a healer? I know for my priest, if I attempt to cast anything not instant, that's a garunteed lockout from a kick or a pummel or a CS etc. And then w/e wasn't used for that cast will be used for the emergency cast I'm trying to get off once the lockdown ends. Not a complaint, just observing that it is very, very easy to interupt casting.

That is one of the intents of keeping most(all for Paladins) spells for those classes(and druid) on a spell school, they want coordination to have a strong effect in 5v5's, not just a game of which healers have better gear.
Counterspell + Damage spike is a fact of life in 5's, and it is(if you ask me) one of the more intelligent parts of game design right now.
I know you probably havn't been PVP healing for all that long, but eventually you'll get used to watching Mages/Warlock pets and learn to estimate the timers on kicks and pummels as well.

You could say the same thing about sheep/fear though, and the whole point of the trinket is to give you a get out of jail card every 2 minutes. I am simply wondering why this isn't applied to healers.

That was hotfixed a week ago or so, no one has removed my UAs via using the PvP trinket since the hotfix (I am glad they were quick about it).

Since the trinket makes you immune to the bad stuff, then if it was designed to remove UA it would never blow you up.

The furlbog trinket/device works in the area you say? I actually hadn't tried it before despite trying virtually every other fun trinket / item I had in my bank. Woe is my Ancient Cornerstone Grimoire but that's a story for another day. What a wonderful discovery this is! It basically forces my opponent to take his eyes off my toon and scan his target unit frame to see what class I am and being a priest in the arena I can use all the help I can get sometimes.

Derail over.

So wait, you think it is ok for practically every CC in the game to be on DR and removable with the PvP trinket, but the one thing that completely cripples healers, isn't on DR and can't be removed at all, is perfectly fine? Paladin and shaman are extremely vulnerable to spell lockdown, and while they are both very powerful in all brackets of the arena and PvP in general, I still think the mechanics are a little bit hypocritical.

Certain coordinated combos are really overpowered, like the popular warlock/shadowpriest finisher of fear->deathcoil->silence->spell lock. This can completely take a healer out of the fight for 20+ seconds, which is ridiculous. If you preemptively trinket out of the fear they just wait for the DR to reset and set up an even deadlier combo because they can chain fear you for up to 21 seconds before using deathcoil/double silence finisher. Putting silence on DR and making it trinketable would be a big help towards balancing certain CC chains that can be extended well beyond the intended diminishing return cycles. Currently the only way to avoid getting hit by this killer combo is through usage of artificial obstacles (pillars, tombs, etc.) in the arena to obstruct LoS and prevent them from getting that first fear off.

Yeah, not to mention the technical difficulties that would be associated with determining if something was on a school lockdown or just on cooldown. I still think lockdown should probably be on DR though to prevent some of the silly things like a shaman being able to pretty much keep someone from casting anything with a cast time greater than 1.5 seconds indefinitely with rank 1 earthshock.

More comparison of Frost nova to CS is that a melee who is Frost Nova's can still melee those in range. However a silenced pally can do nothing of consequence.

If trinkets would remove lock and silence efects mages would be roaylly screwed, counter spell remains only defense against casters, and if it would be possible to trinket from it, well that would make mages a perhaps too gimped in my opinnion against casters.

Removing lockouts probably shouldn't be part of it, but I can see silence being in there. There's basically only two or three silences long enough to justify trinketing for nowadays anyway.

I never understood why silence and lockouts aren't on diminishing returns, since they're just as crippling as stuns to anything that casts spells.

I'm not sure where the "however" fits in, since a rooted melee is just as useless as a silenced/locked caster, considering nobody is actually going to be within attack range.

School lock blocks DS, silence doesn't block DS. That being said, the longest silence effect is 4 seconds which isn't that huge compared with 6-8 second tree locks. Trinketing out of improved CS for example would be a great way to get yourself sheeped for 12 or feared trinketing out of spell lock.

Priest Silence is 5 seconds.

The problem I see with trinket removing lockouts is that it, it has drastically different implications depending what bracket it is.

For 3v3, the change sounds like it could just make burst teams too unreliable to play effectively.

Thats what I'm thinking to, if you play your get out of jail card on one effect, you are susceptible for a second one for two minutes. The point here is that I want the choice of which CC to get out of just like all melee and to some degree caster classes have to.


The burst would still be there, and you could throw another CC at the healer.
I was under the impression that pvp was to be balanced towards the 5vs5 bracket though.

All effects that are already on the trinket can be rapidly reapplied - if not by one class, then by another.

Warlock Fear - No Cooldown.
Polymorph - No Cooldown.
Druid Entangling Roots - No Cooldown.
Hamstring / Wing Clip - No Cooldown.
etc etc etc

ALL skills including silencing / lockout effects have a long (>= 10 seconds) cooldown (with the exception of Earth Shock - zomg nerf!), and the shorter the cooldown, the shorter the silencing / spell lockout effect. They can't be reapplied quickly, therefore, they're not on the trinkets.

Not to mention the way healing vs. damage is balanced right now, where a healer can heal twice as fast (and usually more efficient) than damage dealers can apply damage. If there wasn't a way to lock this down reliably, stuff wouldn't die.

Uh, what about ice trap, death coil, etc?


Anyways, I don't see why we would want to preserve gib teams. They're mostly the opposite of what Blizzard's intent seemed to be with the TBC gearing scheme and tactical playing is more interesting anyway.

Well, mortal strike / wound poison is a direct counter to the 1:2 dmg healing ratio values (not sure if the actual ratio is like that on gear due to regen, but yeah in essence). Not to mention that dps can crit for over 200% (before resilience), while healers have a much lower crit percentage and only 150% crits.

I've suggested a different fix before, where shamans and paladins would get an utility spell (read: priests mana burn) in another spell school to use while locked down, but I doubt that anything like that is going to happen.