I use ESDF for movement (SF = turn, strafe = S or F + right click). W, R, T, A, shifts of all those, 1 through 5, shifts of all those, then ZXCV set to my totems (TotemTimers), and shift-V and shift-G for grounding and earthbind totem. I've never bothered to bind Q because it's just not that comfortable for me. I use the forward mouse button for autorun and the back mousebutton (and shift-, and ctrl-) with clique for curing and for stuff like water shield and lightning shield. I also have this habit of opening and closing my character pane constantly, so I have that now bound to G.
W and T and their shifts are frost/earth shock and their rank 1 equivalents. R and A and their shifts are encounter/pvp-specific macros, such as an assist and a healthstone macro. Anything I need to cast while running is very easily reached through my setup, but it's more of a classic WoW setup (shifted to ESDF) than a FPS setup, which is closer to what you're going for, I think.
So I'm pretty much certain that I'm going to make the switch from WASD to something along the lines of ESDF for movement, but I got to thinking about turning keys. I don't use them. Ever. So I'm now thinking if it'd be more efficient binding-wise to use EWDR (forward/strafe left/back/strafe right) or ESDF (same idea). ESDF allows for binding new stuff to WR, but I feel like EWDR would be more intuitive from the get-go and would allow me to create a kind of "home row" lineup for ASFG for my really important casts that can't fit on 1-6. Hopefully I expressed that clearly. Thoughts?
So I'm pretty much certain that I'm going to make the switch from WASD to something along the lines of ESDF for movement, but I got to thinking about turning keys. I don't use them. Ever. So I'm now thinking if it'd be more efficient binding-wise to use EWDR (forward/strafe left/back/strafe right) or ESDF (same idea). ESDF allows for binding new stuff to WR, but I feel like EWDR would be more intuitive from the get-go and would allow me to create a kind of "home row" lineup for ASFG for my really important casts that can't fit on 1-6. Hopefully I expressed that clearly. Thoughts?
About unbinding the turning keys, I've done the opposite of what you did, I unbound my strafe keys to free up space for important spells. This due to the fact that holding down your right mouse button will make your turning keys act like strafe keys.
What mice models are people using that let them have more than 2 extra mouse buttons (by 2 extra I mean more than 2 beyond the normal 2 left and right that every mouse has). I saw someone mention the MX610 above, curious if there are any others. Also would love to know what programs people need to use to make extra buttons work, if any. I currently use an MX510, but can only bind the two extra side buttons. I have never been able to bind the up and down arrows above and below my scroll wheel. I could do a lot more if I had more buttons on my mouse, but have never had much luck finding one that I liked and knew how to program it to work.
As for my keybindings, I use ESDF for movement, but only strafes on S and F (E forward, D backward) R and W are Bear and Cat respectively, Travel/Aqua on Q, Flight on Z, then all my spells mainly on 1-5 and then shift+all buttons around my hand except Q, A, and Z. I have some spells I end up clicking, just long cooldowns though like Tranquility, Area-taunt, and Innervate.
I like what was said earlier about putting directional attacks on the mouse, I am going to try that with ravage/shred. Currently MB4 is mangle/moonfire, and MB5 is faerie fire/feral faerie fire. I could probably switch on MB4.
Also, being right handed, I've noticed that for my left hand, my strong/easily used buttons fall to my larger fingers (index, middle). I have more prominent spells on that side. Buttons I would have to use my ring or pinky finger for I have kept on less important spells because I just don't feel I have the dexterity or strength of button pushing. It makes it hard when I have to decide which spells I really need to save for my strong fingers. Which is why having more buttons on my mouse would really help because then I'd have more buttons for my index and middle fingers on my right hand.
Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?
Unfortunately, years ago when made the move to keyboard / mouse for Doom2 I chose ASDF as my movement keys and despite repeated attempts I cannot break out of it. That said, because my index finger is used primarily to move forward I have clustered my spells with a cast time around the F key and any instants I have are bound to keys that my middle finger and ring finger have easy access to: X, C, W, E, 2, 3. My pinky is used for SHIFT and CTRL modifiers and my thumb is used for space (jump) and any ALT modifiers to my bound keys. My mouse is one of those five button Logitech jobbies so I have a few functions bound to the thumb buttons and the wheel which also enjoy the use of the three modifier keys.
For instance:
F- move forward
R- Unstable Affliction
Shift R - Immolate
T- Shadowbolt
Shift T - Seed of Corruption
E- corruption
W- Siphon Life
Q- a curse (currently set for shadow)
Mousewheel Down: Curse of Exhaustion (on mouseover)
Mousewheel Up: Curse of Tongues (on mouseover)
ALT-MWD/MWU: zoom functions
Shift-MWD: previous enemy target
Shift-MWU: next enemy target
Big thumb button: autorun
Small thumb button: mount/dismount. Perhaps this one should be rebound now that I can easily cast Howl of Terror just by pressing the little silver button on the top of my mouse (also bound to 8 in case I'm using a Microsoft mouse)
My buttons are still exposed because I do occasionally forget the keybindings for rarely used spells but I rarely click anything anymore. The only items I click are health pots /stones and my PvP trinket, everything else is bound.
Last edited by KinetiK : 07/24/07 at 3:12 PM.
Things are more like they are now than they ever were before. - Dwight Eisenhower
I sometimes wonder how I'll cope when Blizzard release a new expansion with a slew of new talents and abilities, and I have to redo my keybinds or start removing some abilities from my hotbar. I'm one of those guys who got everything on the hotbar, "just in case". Then I look at screenshots of other warriors and they have only half the bar filled.
wasd for movement as in an FPS, a & d are rebound to strafe as many other people here have done. i use everything from tilde through 6 on the number row, q,e,r,t,y are bound on the next row, f and g are also bound.
as for what skill i have bound to them... most of them were chosen for how easy they were to hit, and proximity to other buttons, while others are still in the same spot since i levelled the toon over a year ago becuase im too stubborn to move them.
tilde - feign death (its really easy to mash on the corner of your keyboard)
1 - /stopcasting autoshot macro
2 - raptor strike wing clip macro
3 - pet attack and hunters mark, a double press cancels the pets attack.
4 - freezing trap
5 - multishot
6 - viper sting
q - scatter shot
e - conc shot. i really dont use this ability often enough to be there, but i know if i moved it id screw myself in arenas.
r - steady shot macro
t - arcane shot
y - serpent sting. i really only use this in pvp when i need a dot on something. its leftover from levelling days as well.
f - deterrence
g - wyvern sting. both this and deterrence chance to whatever buttons my spec needs, to TBW and intim or to silencing shot and something random. f often becomes vent if i dont need the binding.
there are a few shift bindings, like shift-g casts the scorpid sting that gets rid of the wyvern dot, and shift-q is an alternate raptor strike scatter shot macro to mash on when a rogue has me stun locked. In all, I try to stay away from shift/alt/ctrl for actual bindings because im just not dexterous enough for that. everything else i cast that i dont need immediately is clickable on a hidden bar.
I have one of the weirder setups that I've heard of people using, but it works like a charm for me.
I use my number pad for my "lazy" movement keys, using 8462 as one would use WASD, 1 and 3 as strafe, 7 as autorun, 5 to sit, decimal to sheathe weapon, 0 to tab target. That's mostly when I'm lazy, PvEing, or just for the autorun to kite.
I mainly move with my mouse (by pressing both mouse buttons down), using a side mouse-button to jump (I use a Logitech G5 First Edition, with two side buttons. The front side button is jump, the second is for grenades). My left hand has all of my binds going on.
Edit1: Forgot to mention that moving in this manner frees up QWEASDZX for hotkeys.
Now here's the part that I really love about my setup that makes me a serious nerd -- I have a second USB mouse installed, and I use a second (cheap, terrible) computer for Vent. I use left mouseclick as my Vent hotkey and, get this, I use the second mouse as a footpedal for my vent hotkey. It leaves my hands COMPLETELY freed up to do whatever I want. It's geeky, but effective as all Hell.
For one of my blogs, I made an uber-contrived diagram of my setup that explains, in-depth, how my hotkeys are set up.
I keybound way more stuff than the average player would care for, I'm not going to bother listing it all, let's just say I had pretty much every ability in my spellbook keybound with key spells in several ranks. I went as far as keybinding my professions and used mods like itemrack pretty much strictly in conjunction with keybinds. Here's just a couple of pointers:
- Don't forget about ZXCV... keys
- Don't forget about shift and ctrl modifiers, you don't have to make it a macro.
- The WASD -> ESDF move opened up a ton of possibilities for me. It'll be weird for a couple of weeks but it's worth it in the long run. Only gripe about it is (in some keyboards) alt moves a bit left but you get used to it.
- Unbind your backpedal, it's possibly the best positioned key and if you leave it on backpedal it's a huge waste. In my mind the only people who can justify having backpedal are main tanks.
While this may stray from the topic a bit, I've found that 3rd party "Gamepads" that function as a keyboard replacement can be enormously helpful for WoW. I use an Ideazon Fang:
While most of the buttons are in a similar layout to those on a normal keyboard, they're tightly bunched so that some of the buttons that are a bit of a stretch to reach on a normal keyboard are much easier to reach. You can also reprogram any of the Fang's buttons to any keystroke, or series of keystrokes (If you use Macros that activate abilities like Trinket+Arcane Power/PI/AW+Pyro, or POM Macros, you can, for example, configure the Key that you bind to that Macro to send 3 consecutive keystrikes while only having to physically hit the button once -- nifty!). You can even reprogram the Media Player control buttons, I use mine to open the Character Pane, Social Pane, Etc. With the number of buttons on the gamepad, the only thing I really need to shift my hands to the real keyboard for is typing text messages to other players.
Ok say you bind some instants to the letters around your WASD movement keys.
For example: R F C X Z all bound to some kind of ability.
What is your alternative to- R (reply to a whisper)
- F (assist)
- C (bring up the character pane)
- X (sit down / up)
- Z (sheath / unsheath weapon)
Do you just not use these functions now that they have been unbound? Or what is your solution.
Reply - i trained myself to Ctrl + r or simply typing /r
Assist - mousewheel up
Char Panel - Shift C
Sit/Stand - Why would you ever use this? (food/drink is the only time i ever sit)
Sheath Weap - again, why?
RE: Mouse questions, I use the Logitech Mx Revolution. Has the standard MS1/2 and Fly/3. At the thumb position there are 2 buttons and a 3rd button further down that can push and shift forward/back, so technically 5 buttons for the thumb alone. And another below the Fly that I think can be rebound as well. The trick was actually binding the MS buttons, but I went into the Logitech toolbar and had them be specific keys like [ ] \.
I just purchased a n52 does anyone have any suggestions on using it? How responsive are the macro features? Or did I just waste $40 ?
How has it treated people on Widows vista?
Sorry to dredge up this old thread and I admit I asked the quesiton in the '900' thread, but can someone give a person with absolutely positively zero FPS experience a quick lesson or link to point to that can train me in mouse turning?
I am beginning to get that "keyboard turning" is wildly inefficient, but I'm not "grok-ing" mouse turning at all.
The best way I know how to describe "keyboard turning" vs "mouse turning" is the following:
When you turn with a keyboard, you use A and D (or E and F, whichever). Also, if you're keyboard turning, chances are you're "keyboard strafing" as well and still have Q and E bound to your strafe keys.
When "mouse turning", you're going to be holding down W to go forward while holding down right click on your mouse and turning it. This will allow you to turn quickly. Optionally, you can simply hold down both left and right click to move forward and turn at the same time without having to hold down W. When strafing (this is how casters run away from you at full speed while still casting spells), you want to hold down A or D (possibly in combination with W) while holding down right click and turning.
The best way to practice this is just go in a city and start walking around holding down W and right click at the same time. Once you get the hang of it, try PVP'ing this way. Good luck and hope this helps.
This is an excerpt from a guide I wrote over on the Allakhazam forums...
Look at what you’re working with here. Left. Right. Wheel. A humble device, yet its potential is vast. Your right button is now relegated to turning. Your left, clicking (let’s face it, you still will need to click stuff). But the mousewheel – what is it up to right now? Zooming the camera around? Gah! How lame.
The simple truth is that your mousewheel is the most versatile AND accessible key you have. On its own it functions as three keys – up, down, and click. Now add shift, alt, and control. The mousewheel can function as a whopping twelve keys.
Blizzard has done a great job of creating a “smart” camera. Your view automatically adjusts itself whenever you enter or exit a space. Being able to zoom in and out is great, but it shouldn’t be your highest priority. Remap camera zoom to Ctrl + mousewheel up/down. Control is the most awkwardly placed of the three function-altering keys. Go ahead and use it for your camera, thereby freeing up the other nine possible combinations. This is how I mapped my stuff:
While Stealthed
Mousewheel Up = Cheap Shot
Mousewheel Down = Sap
Mousewheel Click = Distract
Shift + Mousewheel Up = Garrote
Shift + Mousewheel Down = Ambush
Shift + Mousewheel Click = Not Bound
Alt + Mousewheel Up = Pick Pocket
Alt + Mousewheel Down = Throw
Alt + Mousewheel Click = Not Bound
I originally learned the setup with RF / ED instead of TG / RF and found I didn't have enough key bindings. Honestly finding the homerow for typing isn't that hard. You just move your whole hand down and left one key instead of just down one key.
On the other hand, I designed the layout for playing Quake 1, where you needed split second reaction times for a changing to any one of a number of weapons. Warcraft PvP doesn't require reaction time on the same scale.
Since this thread came back up, I'll give a little input on what I've done since I last posted. I switched from ESDF to EDWS, where E/D are forward/backward and W/S are turn left/right. This works well for me because I feel more natural when the default behavior is to turn, and I can just use the right mouse button to switch to strafing.
The effect was practically revolutionary, because I found I was able to do so many more things while moving, since only the same two fingers were tied up regardless of which direction I was moving. By putting my most important abilities on R, F, Q, and A, I can pretty much do anything bound to those keys while moving in any direction I want.
In terms of adaptation time, since I started from ESDF (and therefore already had my fingers on the natural home row keys to begin with), EDWS took about four days to get used to, and about a week or two before I felt perfectly natural with it. Now I really can't imagine doing it any other way.
So how do you solve this problem? Or more generally, how do you layout your keyboard?
Q, W, E, A, S, D - I can usually stick with W as move because I use 2, 3 as spells with cast times. I'm not running when I hit those anyway, and this stops me from accidentally moving forward after I hit the cast. Shift - W is autorun. Though I really don't use it much.
I have a mouse with programmable buttons (thumb, wheel). So I map thumb to shift, and wheel to ctrl. This lets me have 3 times the number of hot keys.
I have 1-6, Shift - 6, Ctrl - 6 all mapped to spells/abilities. I use F1-F4 and Shift F1-F4 as my auras. Ctrl F1-F6 are greater blessings (usually don't use F6, only when I'm prot). These are convenient enough to hit whenever, but not any of the really good keys.
In addition to 1-6 and the F keys, I also have spells on R, T, F, G, V, F5, ` and the shift and ctrl versions of those.
That leaves z, x, c, v, and b as target management. Tab of course selects next bad guy.
z - target focus, shift-z focus target.
c - target self, shift-c character pane
x - next friendly, shift-x previous friendly
b - assist, shift-b bags
This lets me have all blessings, all greater blessings, auras, seals... pretty much everything except consumables on hot keys.
All of my characters use the same basic setup - the only difference is that the spells themselves change - though i try to make it as similar as possible. Ice block is on the same key as divine shield, all of the targeting buttons stay the say, etc.
I'm pretty sure the biggest mistake anyone makes when it comes to keybindings is using any keys on the keyboard as movement keys, you don't need to walk backwards at all, you don't need to strafe, you don't need to keyboard turn, and you don't need to walk forwards, especially when you can replace those 6 keybinds with 2 on a decent mouse.
People should also utilize Caps Lock for for a key bind, although the majority of the time they tend to forget this key exists :p
I've been through to same hell as you guys , but finally gave up the keyboard shortly before TBC arrived , to get one of those: Belkin : Nostromo™ SpeedPad n52
Not only does it solve the "movement keys issue" , it provides basically everything a MMO gamer needs , such as macros , timed actions , etc...
If you've only been playing with keyboards so far its gonna be weird at the beginning , but it's totally worth the trouble. I'm using it on XP , but a friend of mine told me he had no problems using it on vista.
Regarding the Ideazon Fang, I'm pretty sure the image is going to come out a different size for people depending on monitor size and resolution. According to the makers specifications, it is "6.0 x 7.6 x 0.9 inches".
Right click makes your mouse act like better turning keys.
Right click > turning
Right click+turn key =~ strafing
I am constantly on-the-fly camera angle changing (especially in arenas) and must have my strafe and turn keys bound seperately (obviously I dont key turn, but unbinding any of these 6 movement keys results in a loss of camera angle changing). Try strafing with right click and turn key - and then try to turn your camera angle.
I recently switched to mousewheel down for counterspell/kick/ES/ etc (with stopcasting) and love it, apart from that I have shift + spacebar bound to all my spammed abilities (MS, SS, etc) - doesn't seem like many others use that keybind, but it gives you the ability to keep all directional/camera buttons accessable while spamming a move.
I'm pretty sure the biggest mistake anyone makes when it comes to keybindings is using any keys on the keyboard as movement keys, you don't need to walk backwards at all, you don't need to strafe, you don't need to keyboard turn, and you don't need to walk forwards, especially when you can replace those 6 keybinds with 2 on a decent mouse.
People should also utilize Caps Lock for for a key bind, although the majority of the time they tend to forget this key exists :p
How do you change camera angles with no combo key+mouse to move and shift angles? You have just put yourself at a disadvantage.
Also tab is extremely unreliable, I couldnt imagine a critical time NOT being able to move and click a target at the same time. If you dont mind me asking, how does pvp go for you without being able to move and change camera angles at the same time.?
07/21/07, 6:27 AM
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