I am playing a 2v2 with a pally and I. We usually have a little trouble, but can get the oposiing healer oom while he keeps up both of us. However once the oponent goes oom, both the healer and the dps go behind a pillar and reset the fight. If i enter melee range the warrior tears me apart as i still have no dps on the healer, and if i wait outside they spirit regen better then my pet's damage.

Will this problem go away as we go up in rating and people use pure PvP gear? If not how do you others hunter's prevent the oposing team from just restarting the entire fight.

I didn't SS it but i have had games last nearly an hour and a half and we only won because the oponents ran out of arena water.

Pillars are the real trouble unless you outgear the opponents. Even with pet smacking the healer
he/she gets many free *ooc* mana regen ticks when you try to find a spot with no deadzone or LOS.

Downranking hunters mark and viper sting helps up to certain point as they use less mana than their cleansing spells but thats about it before we get the aspect of the viper change.

Can use arcane shot etc. more when a shaman or paladin is about to run behind a pillar at 10% health. -.-

TBH, you won't be able to DPS a pally or shaman down even when he is OOM if you don't have mana yourself. That is the major crutch of hunters in 2v2 IMO. You just have to keep viper sting up 100% of the time so they are TRULY OOM. Use FD+drink to your advantage as well... I'd say get a good 30% mana if you're chasing someone around the pillar trying to kill them. You'll basically rely on scatter -> trap -> aimed -> multi, and then finish with melee as best you can. The KEY is to keep viper sting up.

I usually use my pet. If I had a pet with dash, it'd be even easier. Just make sure your pally heals it.

Also, if you're having longevity issues, try using the mark of conquest and AotV from the start.

[Edit:] Also, keeping them separated might help. If it's like a pally and a warrior for example, the pally's prolly hiding behind a pillar and popping out to heal, and the warrior can easily be drawn into the center. Then you can use traps, wc, and scatter shot/intimidation, pally stuns, etc. to keep the warrior in the middle if they try to run away to regen. Then with a pet on the pally and you on the warrior, he'll have to come out to heal the warrior and he won't really gain any mana.

My issues aren't longevity, it's simply killing someone once i put both of the opposition on the defensive. For example, pally/war vs our pally/hunter.

Scorpid sting to put warrior in combat, he intercepts into a frost trap. I send pet after paladin and viper as he throws a freedom onto the warrior. I get a freedom myself and scatter the warrior, i am now 4 seconds of running away from him and i start shooting him. The other paladin comes into LoS again eventually to either dispel the freezing trap i got the warrior into, or to reBoF, or to heal since i do slowly wear the warrior down. When that happens I viper him again. My pally being uninterrupted times it with me for when i use either deterrence, freeze trap, or scatter so he knows he has plenty of time to get ticks of water. Between viper stings on the paladin, Heals on himself from damage my pet did and heals on the warrior he eventually goes oom. Then usually the other warrior uses his intercept on my pet, tries to kill it so I'm forced to pull him back, and the paladin get's mana back, and it starts all over.

My options there are:

A) keep pet on paladin, and hope my pally and I can kill the pally in melee range only and perhaps a snake trap.
B) pull pet back, keep him alive, and hope they wait too long after they have reset the fight.
C) Pull pet back, pally goes in and keeps other pally in combat with judgements, melee and shocks as i stay back to get any shots off i can.

None of them are good ways of winning that i can think of, so my question was how do you prevent this and get it as a way to kill them. Other pally is OOM, i have about 50% mana, my pally is near full, and other pally/warrior are at full hp behind a pillar. Let's assume in Nagrand arena.

We actually had the opposite problem of you in a match we had earlier today against a hunter and a discipline priest. As we haven't played a whole lot of 2v2 yet, we didn't exactly know how to counter this team since it's the first of it's kind we've ever met.

The warrior on my team (yes, we are using the classic holypally/warrior setup) started out charging the priest and trying to burst her down. The hunter, along with his pet, a scorpion with a stackable poison debuff, immediately attacked me and started trying to drain my mana with viper sting. The priest also started chain casting mana burn on me, and after just a few seconds almost half of my mana was gone. I started running around pillars to avoid the manaburn and the hunter's arrows and tried to cleanse my debuffs. However, the viper sting was only one of 7-8 debuffs and I had to spend a massive amount of mana cleansing the debuffs (179 per cleanse I believe). By the time I had been able to cleanse the viper sting, it had already been applied for several ticks, draining a massive amount of mana.

The priest kept debuffing me with various low rank spells whenever possible and the pet kept debuffing me, which seemed to stack 5 times, making it very hard to cleanse without consuming a massive amount of mana. The hunter kept reapplying viper sting as often as possble, making my mana drop very quickly. Before the priest was on 35% mana, I was all out and dropped dead soon after.

Luckily, the warrior on my team managed to burst down the priest soon after, but was unfortunately unable to kill the hunter.

We pondered a bit about how we should be able to deal with that team after the match, but couldn't really come up with an idea to counter this team. An option we thought of was to try to have the warrior go on the hunter instead, but then the priest would be free to manaburn me and go ooc to drink. Perhaps someone could enlighten me?


As to how you would deal with a pally/warrior team, Kiklio, I believe you are doing something terribly wrong if you manage to get the paladin oom but not killing him. The regen of a paladin while not casting should be no more than 150mp/5sec, unless he is decked in pve gear, but even then it won't be a whole lot. They can prevent you from doing much damage by running around the pillar with BoF, but at all times you should be able to do decent damage on one of them. They shouldn't be able to get our of combat to drink either, since you will be hitting them with arrows once in a while and have your pet attack. Your priest on the other hand, is in your scenario free to drink as much as he please, so the hunter shouldn't fear the warrior's attacks.

By the way, I can't find your character at the armory, it is "Kiklion", isn't it?

EDIT: I finally found you, it seems you are called "Kikleon".

We thought of that, but pets have 6,5k hp and 10k ac or more, and both the hunter and the priest can heal it. The hunter was also BM specced (probably should have mentioned that), so the pet could easily be revived in 4 seconds. Also, we could do little to stop the pet, should the hunter decided to call it back.

"easily" revived = at the cost of 1600ish mana (forget the exact amount). 25% of our mana pool and a 4 second cast(to revive the pet at ~60% HP) is far from trivial, and easy to stop.And of course, the majority of high-rated arena hunters are MM spec, for which it's more like 2700 mana and a 10-second cast.

Granted, killing the pet may be a little hard in 2's as part of a 1 DPS/1 Healer team, but it's downright trivial in 5v5.

Though even in 2's, it should be easier to drop than a hunter - I typically have 5-6k HP more than my pet, before even considering resilience.

deleted post, need to sleep. trying to delete post at least.

Well look at it this way. The scorpid's poisons are probably causing you at least as much trouble as the hunter's viper stings(probably more, since it's unlikely he has Imp Stings as BM) but like Celn mentioned, it has about 50-60% the HP pool of the hunter, has 0 resilience, and likely only has HP/Armor, or Resistance training to supplement that. All it takes is for the hunter's healer to not be paying attention to the pet for a few seconds and your warrior can kill it. It happened to me all the time in 2v2's when my pally partner wasn't paying attention, and when at first he didn't realize the pet's importance.

Also, it's probably feasible as BM to rez your pets in arenas, especially with arena water, but it's still costly, and you can probably insta-gib it once it's rez'd anyway. And without Imp. Revive Pet, letting someone get off a pet rez is like letting someone get off a regular rez in an arena. It's really easy to stop 10s casts from a class with no way to prevent interruption.

Damn this forum, logged out somehow and lost a 400+ words post when I submitted. Anyway, what I was trying to write in it was that a hunter's pet has ~6k base hp, 10k+ armor. With priest buffs and BM talents it gets closer to 8k hp and 12k armor, making it hard to burst down.

If we ever meet the same team again, we'll make a quick attempt at killing it, and if we do not succeed I'll have the warrior keep on the hunter instead and see how the cookie crumbles.

For the record, BM is as far as I know a more viable specc than MM in 2v2, but not so in 5v5.

To reply to OP's post, if your opponent's healer is oom and you have 50% mana and your healer is almost full mana, that's clutch time! don't just let him drink! Keep viper sting up, and put a frost (not freezing) trap around the pillar. Wingclip him, concussive him slow him down, keep dpsing him, he can't heal it and he will die. At this point, when he's oom, every hit you get is a pure gain for you, he can't heal and it keeps him in combat. Don't disengage and let them get OOC, that's a mistake.

And by the way, use a scorpid, it rocks, especially vs palas. As for people dpsing your pet, that can be annoying ofcourse (especially if it's a rogue or a warrior), but there's ways around it. For example, you can pull pet back, scatter the warrior and immediately dismiss it (alot cheaper than rezzing it), usually they won't notice it and keep dpsing the pet for 1-2 secs until it disappears. You can then call the pet again when their pala is trying to drink, just remember to mend pet it immediately and tell your pala to heal it.

Good luck!

thanks for the tip on scatter and dismiss, never thought of that. The chasing a person around a pillar and using snares i have tried, however my melee damage doesn't exactly outpace some of the healers regen/healing when i can't get to range to viper again. Or they burn the mana as soon as they get it with a renew/shield/rejuv etc. A druids rejuv does outpace my melee damage. Rejuv + lifebloom outpaces me and my pets damage.

I can't see a Paladin managing to keep up with Arcane Shots and a relatively untouchable hunter if he's running out of mana.

Have you tried having your Paladin using BoProtection on your pet after it has combated the opponent's Paladin? I doubt you'll be able to do this in most instances (he'll probably have to BoProtection you somewhere during the fight), but if pure longetivity seems to your issue, then it might be worthwhile looking into. It would definatly be counter productive to let the warrior build up rage on your pet, and if he dies, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up.

Edit: If your Paladin is running on full mana, he can probably spare a stun/shock/judgement of righteousness on the opponent's Warrior if the enemy's Paladin tries to get some ticks of water in. He could try to play more offensively than a paladin would traditionally if they are really drawing fights out like that.

The issue is you can't arcane shot someone running around a pillar. If they do it right you cant fire off any real shots (scatter is the exception.)

The only time i get any shots in is during intimidation, HoJ (half of wich are trinketed out) and scatter shot.