Kasi

I've not really seen a pvp thread here yet on elemental shamans in pvp. I've not really gotten around to getting a 5 man team started yet, but I do play 3v3 and sometimes 2v2 (3v3 with a priest/pally and 2v2 with the priest). I also play on the same 3v3 team with my warrior, usually splitting the games between the two.

Basically I'd like this thread to have some good discussion/input from people on how to play as an elemental shaman in pvp, specifically arenas, but general BG strats are welcome too.

I find the classes I hate most as an elemental is rogues and mages. Counterspell can easily shut me down for a long time if they get me while casting (and I need to cast to do good damage) and a rogue on me pretty much makes me useless. Sure I can drop earthbind and poison cleansing, but I find myself unable to do much but shock and feebly try to run away. If I try to get my spells off the good rogues will usually just jump around me and mess up my spell cast. If I try to get a heal off I get kicked. Now mage I know good use of grounding totems can work to a degree there but the rogue issue I'm not sure what to do about. Maybe when I get more resilience and health, but currently they hurt me really bad at my 125ish resilience level.

So what do you do as an elemental when under pressure? Just sit there and try to shock, purge and hope your teammates are healing you after you get off your NS/HW? (if you do that is, last night we lost to a 3v3 team with worse gear than ours that was rogue/hunter/spriest when they sapped our priest, silenced me while stunning me, they even threw their shadow fiend at me right off the start. I died before I got out of silence. Never even got to use NS)

Should I play more aggressive in arenas instead of dropping my totem farm and waiting for them to come in? I kind of like letting them go for my more beefy priest partner as that leaves me alone to spam the lightning. And when that happens its a beauty to behold. I love exploding targets. Heroismed, trinketed LB/CL spam (especially if the fight allows me to drop WoA)

I'm guessing that the upward possiblities of shaman in smaller arena sizes is limited because of how poorly we fare when under pressure, but that in a 5 man with squishier targets we are able to do our task better.

So if anyone has suggestions/advise/tricks of the trade please speak up. I'm interested in what people have to say about both talents and meta gems. I like the idea of the 18 sta, 5% stun resist, but I've been thinking the half cast one could be useful for .75 sec chain lightnings. I really love the idea of using the 3% crit one to make me even more lethal, but that does nothing about what I percieve to be my biggest weakness, my inability to do much while under focus.

 

Trennet

I'm doing more and more Arenas with my Ele/Resto Shaman alt.

In 2v2 and 3v3, Palladins and Mages put me at a severe disadvantage.

In 2v2 I play with the best PvP Warrior on our server -- a fellow 5v5er from my main's team and we 2v2 together just for carefree fun. But there is little-to-no way we can beat a half-competent Pally+Warr combo: we can occasionally DPS down the Warr fast enough, but in general it comes down to the survival of the healers and a Pally's bubble in 2v2 = 300% more survivability than I have. And Mages -- ugg -- all they have to do is focus fire me with the Mage spamming Ice Lance (instant so slaughters Groundings) and CS and I'm toast. Rogues are, of course, nasty too.

Another of my problems is that Totems take so long to lay down at the start. In 2v2s especially, the action starts fast and 5-6s laying totems feels like an enternity.

5v5 team is a total joke, made up of guild alts in greens, so it's not much worth discussing.

Overall, it's been pretty frustrating. I sometimes wish I had gone resto instead, but spending 30 extra points in dispellable Earth Shield + killable Mana Tide just isn't very attractive. I played an Ele/Resto Shaman starting when WSG came out and grinded to Rank 12 (back when that was the most that benefitted an Ele Shaman), so it's not brand new to me. I use /stopcasting, AUF, a separate Focus setup, etc. Still, I wish I had rolled a Pally instead of leveling this guy from 60-70 and farming all the honor gear.

Is it possible to last, with a Warrior beating on me, as long as a Pally would (including bubble)?

How do you get around so many of our skill challenges:
-- the time it takes to lay totems + their 30y range
-- the difficulty casting Lightning vs. run-thrus + pushback
-- the primary-school CS lockouts
-- low mana
-- lack of CC and difficulty countering CC

 

Shade

I played elemental last season and recently switched to restoration for this season. Last season, we played warrior/warlock/elemental shaman/resto druid/paladin. Right now, we are playing warrior x2/paladin/resto shaman/icemage and loving it.

On a 2x warrior team, you don't really need the shaman for DPS. You're there to provide purge and windfury, and some other totem buffs. Restoration is a good choice because you can heal well under pressure, and have much better survivability than elemental.

I think the reason elemental works well in 5s but not the smaller arenas is because of the castbar pushback issue. Most teams only have 1 or 2 melee, and if they don't come after you, you're free to cast. If a mage counterspells you as an elemental shaman that's probably good - that's one counterspell your healer didn't have to eat. The problem comes when an enemy warrior or rogue comes after you. They are effectively DPSing and CCing you at the same time. In this situation, playing with a CC-heavy team is good, because a friendly mage or druid can help you get some good separation from a melee class so you can cast. In preparation, purge down the guy attacking you so you can purge the BOP after he gets it to counter roots or nova. Since you can't cast, you might as well purge.

Also grounding totem is more powerful in larger arenas because of its ability to eat multiple spells. Basically, your team is using 1 GCD to nullify at least one, probably two or more GCDs from the other team.

I don't feel the need to drop all my totems at the beginning. With the 2x warrior team we usually just charge right into the face of the other team. My priorities are usually bloodlust, windfury and tremor, and then I start purging like a madman. Other totems are less crucial. If I see an ice mage I'll drop frost resistance; if I see a rogue or hunter, I use poison cleansing. Otherwise I use healing stream or mana.

Once some of our regular players get back, we're going to switch to a warrior/paladin/elemental/mage/warlock lineup and see how that works. It's a lot of DPS, and the mage/warlock should be able to keep rogues and such off of me.

 

Calantus

I used to play an elemental shaman back when enhancement was all the rage for PVP and resto was the only PVE spec, and my brother is currently an elemental shaman. That's all I really have to go on, but I think it's enough to understand the underlying issues with the class.

I honestly feel that an elemental shaman is one of the worst possible specs to partner with a healer in 2v2. They have no CC at all. Their snares have cooldowns and are dispellable. They don't have DoTs (so people can just LOS you when they have to). They don't have escape abilities. They don't have the ability to outlast. And finally, 2 of the most powerful abilities a shaman has (heroism/lust and windfury totem) are largely or completely wasted when you have only yourself and a healer partner.

No single DPSer without a -% healing debuff will ever kill myself or my partner without either running me out of mana, CCing me, or locking me out. This should apply to every healer + X team out there. Unfortunately a shaman has the ability to do none of these so I really don't understand how you could win fights this way beyond the opposition being terrible or badly geared (ele shaman/resto druid might work if you abuse the druid's CC effectively).

We gave up on shaman+priest very early because it just does not work. Our 3v3 is currently shaman+priest+mage when we run the shaman and really it doesn't work very well. We bring him in for his games and whatever else we can stand, then have him switch to his warrior and put in as many games as possible with that combo to make up for all the losses we suffered carrying his shaman (who is also less geared it must be said).

I think an elemental shaman has to be an enabler through their buffs and/or a cog in a burst machine to be effective. In 2v2 I think you need to either be with a warrior or at least a partner with high burst so that you can light up one of the opposition quickly.

I was going to write more but I have to go now. :P

 

Kasi

So what would be a good partner for elemental shaman on 2v2? Perhaps go for more of a gank setup? How would warlock/shaman do? Or is elemental just a bad idea to go 2v2 in? I understand thought that its hard to kill someone with a shaman unless you outgear them because although I can do tons of burst its easily healed. CC is definately needed to buy me time to put a target down with LB/CL/ES.

 

Calantus

All the traditional 2v2 DPS classes should be reasonably good to partner with. Mage, warrior, warlock, and rogue would all be decent though I think the first 3 are better options than the rogue.

 

subscience

If a Rogue's on you, that means that your teammates are free to DPS/Heal. You can still contribute with instants such as Purges (if I'm getting focused, I like to Purge the main target that my Warrior is on), Shocks (interrupting heals/Polys), totems, and Bloodlust/Heroism. Plus you have the almighty NS/CL combo to throw when a target gets low. All this with 0 cast time.

My Priest usually squeels with joy when I get focused instead of him since he gets to Heroism'ed Mana Burn his ass off.

Edit- Also, PvP trinket for KSes.

 

• Juice

I find when I get focused upon my best move is to try and kite my aggressors. As you might imagine, this is easier said than done when I've got a couple melee types on me (warrior and rogue). But the longer I can run them around, or LOS the casting focus fire, the better off we end up. As an elemental, I cannot reliably dps or support (totems, purge, etc) while being focused. I think it's a combination of my relatively short life span under focus and the flood of stuns which limit my ability to do much.

Getting focused usually consists of me dropping a earthbind, using my trinket and hauling ass, grounding totem (provided cd is up), and spin casting a frost shock on my closest assailant. Beyond that, it's NS heal myself and hope the rest of the lads are wrecking the opposing healers.

 

jaehunkin

i fooled around in the 2v2's as elem for a while before going back to resto and the best combo i played was elemsham/moonkin. it works really well becuase both of you can heal, both have some burst damage, and the druid brings along CC that the shaman is lacking.
vs a double dps team we would cyclone the class that had the most potential for locking one of us down, like a rogue/mage/lock and light the other one up. vs dps/healer teams, cyclone the healer while shaman dpses, once healer goes immnune to cyclone, we'd cyclone the dps until the DR is up on the healer, healing ourselves in the process.

 

Tejs

Really, PvP as an Elemental Shaman doesnt involve a lot of special tricks or neat combo moves. I've got about 944 Spellpower in Arenas with 256 Resillence, and you can put quite the dent in the opposing team when you get Lightning Overload procs. Having played one for a long long time, you just need to remember these things:

1) Rogues will own you. It's just a fact of life. You'll meet a lot of unskilled rogues at the lower levels of Arena play, but 1600+, rogues should just destroy you. Sucks.
2) Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt. You will use this all the time. The only time you will deviate from this is to Earth Shock some healers while running around from the warriors and rogues, and when you try to finish someone using the 'kill someone trio', which will usually be Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Earth Shock.
3) You need to carry Arena Water in arenas. While normally a common sense move, you WILL run oom during some arena fights and it's nice to get away and drink again.
4) Totems you should probably place at the beginning: Grounding Totem, Tremor Totem, Searing Totem, and Poison Cleansing Totem. This covers pretty much the spectrum of dangers you will face and (imo) provides somewhat of a psychological factor when the enemy team decides to attack you, seeing all 4 totems out.

Battlegrounds are pretty much the same, but you get to respawn instead of having one go. I'd highly recommend getting Lightning Overload though, as it really does make a huge difference in PvP. I can't tell you how many paladins have just melted when I deal at least 4500 Damage in 2 seconds, up to 9K - they just dont expect it and you kill them before they shield.

 

GoG

I am under the impression that shaman's are one of the few classes that can reliably support their team even while under focus fire. You still have the ability Earth Shock, purge, and drop totems. In addition, melee crits grant you 100% resistance to knock back on your next Lbolt.

Gog the Shaman
Ferall the Warrior
Orthrus the Warlock

 

Ziny

My apologies for the derail, but as you mentioned your warrior/warlock/elemental shaman/resto druid/paladin setup from last season .. I've been wondering about this:

Back in season1, when I still played my mage we used to go with the usual FOTM setup (warrior/mage/elemental shaman/priest/paladin), now I (resto druid) took the spot of our priest and we still run with a mage, a new one now, but apparently most of the high rated teams with a similar setup go for a warlock instead of a mage, is there a certain reason for this? Or is it just coincidence?

 

Shade

I have no idea... it seems like mage and warlock are fairly interchangeable in most setups. They bring CC and dps, and are fairly survivable if geared and specced properly (soul link and iceblock). Last season, mages were superior because they brought water to the table.

I think part of the reason we did okay with the druid last season was because our druid was a really strong player.

 

Vazu

Your goal as an elemental Shaman isn't limited to spamming nukes. There is a time and a place for that, but primarily you're a buffer for everyone else. You play aggressively and defensively at the same time. It's probably (and we've had this debate) the most complicated spec/class to play in 5v5 arenas.

Basically, your role ends up looking like this:

- Using focus windows effectively for Grounding Totem / ES (I cannot stress enough how important Focus windows are. It's a huge deal vs. Mage teams who will sheep your Warrior or when a teammate is desperately low on life and needs a buffer to get healed.)
- Keeping Windfury up for your Warrior(s)
- Purging quickly, at the right time, and on good targets.
- Healing when necessary.
- Knowing when you can safely stop and DPS and when it's ok to NS/Nuke..
- Kiting when necessary.

It's actually very similar to Warlocks in the sense that you aren't fixed (like a Warrior) on a single target really.
Your vision has to extend across 10 different allies & opponents.

 

Kcolraw

Interesting topic... oh, this is totally related, everyone knows why "2345" is called "2345", right? :P

 

Calantus

Well we've finally "clicked" with our 3v3 of disc/holy priest, ele shaman, and frost mage. I'm still not convinced it's a strong combo but I think with a bit more practice and gear we could ride a fair bit higher than we are now.

What we're doing now is to just hard-burn someone right off. We'll pick a warrior, shadowpriest, aff lock, or mage (pref fire, but if nothing else is there we'll go for a frosty and hope the MD goes through) and just go at it and try to catch a CS on their healer. This tends to drop someone less than half the time. Either way we've forced that person into the defencive and overextended their healer. If they survive we'll either switch and burn their healer or try to control the fight a little with what little CC we have while still burning the original target. Almost always the original burn target or their healer will die before the match ends and it's just a matter of stabilising with all 3 of us alive. If one of us dies it's usually a loss because no 2-person class combo in that lineup is any good, especially with cooldowns blown and mana depleted. :P

 

Kasi

No I don't. Why is it called that? Heh.

 

Kcolraw

Heh wow, got an "infraction" for that post because nobody here knows what 2345 means... A 2345 setup is warrior, elemental shaman, holy priest, holy paladin, mage (sometimes lock). It refers to how easy it is to win with this setup, especially from the shaman's point of view... "2, 3, 4, 5" = the only keys necessary to play shaman in 5v5, I think you can figure out what spells would be binded there.

 

subscience

To a limited degree, yes. However, in the days of Mace spec Rogues and Warriors and Stormheralds, stuns definitely limit any 0-cast-time support you can do. I can't tell you how many times I've been Mace stunned when my teammates were screaming for Purges on BoP/Fs.

 

Zaigon

I would have to disagree on this one, when it comes to 5v5. I sometimes find myself spamming Purge almost non-stop through a whole fight, to purge off Priests Shield/Blessed Resilience/Inner Fire, not to mention the buffs from the rest of his party (Blessing of Protection in particular).
And even though you're not focus firing a Priest, spam purging at least a bit before you start nuking is rarely wasted.

 

DecimusGarona

I'm on Tejs team as well (with my mage), we have a disc/holy priest and resto shaman healer so offensive dispels are plentiful on our team. We also try to gib someone in the opening 15-20s of the match, which is make or break for us, and purge does no damage in this case.

Basically, what you will be doing in the match comes down to what your team makeup is, and to a lesser extent what type of team you are facing.

 

Kasi

Well I assume in that case the 2,3,4,5 is WF totem, purge, NS, CL? Or maybe throw in some grounding totems in there.

 

GoG

I wonder if you will now get an infraction for that last statement as well. Some people you just can't teach . . .

I do agree; however, that shaman are not the hardest 5v5 class to learn. I can't imagine anything more difficult than correctly managing a rage bar in the chaos that is 5 man pvp.

Gog the Shaman
Ferall the Warrior
Orthrus the Warlock

 

Tutanka

2345 is in reference to the EM+CL countdown.

Game starts, Mages CC's, shaman purges, warrior DPS's the Priest.......

Warrior gets Priest to 60% and then 2-3-4-5 shaman and Mage blow their wads on the fully purged Priest.

And I really don't see how anyone can call shaman an easy class to play. Next to priests they are probably the class that struggles the most with global cool down management.

The classes that are hardest to play are the classes where you are required to chose between different options. Do you cancel your chain lightening to purge that PWS, or do you nuke through it. Do you help heal the focused target or do you re-drop your recently stomped totems. Do you earth shock the healing Pally, or do you assist the warrior.

You cant do everything you have to chose, and you have to chose quickly.

 

Pigua

Changing the subject, why is it that many top shaman (namely Nuvas and the shaman on Trounce) have switched to a 41/0/20 build?
I've always found NS to be far more valuable than ToW, so this is puzzling, yet it's obviously working.