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Old 04/09/09, 1:01 AM   #2501
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
Grunge's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
While I agree that trinketing a CS has it advantages, it's also depends a lot on your/their latency, as I've seen plenty of rogues eat a Kidney during a vanish and be destealthed stunned.

Also when facing double-dps there's the inherent risk of vanish breaking due to the other dps.

Overall I'd say it's highly situational when you should use your trinket.
Best advice I can give is to practice a lot, and find the best option for you.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 04/13/09, 2:14 AM   #2502
Foehamma
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by liquidroyl View Post
I have personally found that there is a sluggishness to action bar swapping, and used action bars mods to avoid the problem. This is covered in

The Rogue UI: Your Silent Partner

Here are steps to reproduce:

1) Download and install action bar mod (dominos works fine)
2) Disable the stealth bar
3) Create macros for all of your abilities using [nostealth] or [stealth]. For example, my "3" key is bound to Kidney / Cheapshot, so I made a macro that looks like:

/cast [nostealth] Kidney Shot; [stealth] Cheap Shot

Can you do this along the lines of shadowdance as well? Such as, I want 4 bound as my backstab key, but when I'm dancing I want it to ambush. Or even further, make a macro that will use ambush if I am stealthed OR dancing, and backstab when out of stealth. Can it be done?

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Old 04/13/09, 4:34 PM   #2503
Mordekhuul
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Terenas
Originally Posted by Foehamma View Post
Can you do this along the lines of shadowdance as well? Such as, I want 4 bound as my backstab key, but when I'm dancing I want it to ambush. Or even further, make a macro that will use ambush if I am stealthed OR dancing, and backstab when out of stealth. Can it be done?
Macro's cannot make decisions based on whether or not you have a buff/debuff active at any given time. You can make decisions based on stealth or not because Blizz provides the [stealth] and [nostealth] qualifiers, but given they don't have ability-specific qualifiers like [shadowdance] and [noshadowdance], you can't do what you are asking.

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Old 04/13/09, 6:44 PM   #2504
Arkhangel-Nord
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Nordrassil
How viable would a 7-0-54 build be for PVP? I don't have Wrath so I'm stuck at 70. Also, I've got slightly over 8% +hit, and I think my rating is 122.

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Old 04/14/09, 2:32 PM   #2505
Foehamma
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Mordekhuul View Post
Macro's cannot make decisions based on whether or not you have a buff/debuff active at any given time. You can make decisions based on stealth or not because Blizz provides the [stealth] and [nostealth] qualifiers, but given they don't have ability-specific qualifiers like [shadowdance] and [noshadowdance], you can't do what you are asking.
What about in 3.1 now that shadowdance opens its own hot bar? Could the mechanic possibly be a stance now?

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Old 04/14/09, 5:42 PM   #2506
Arkhangel-Nord
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Nordrassil
Originally Posted by Mordekhuul View Post
Macro's cannot make decisions based on whether or not you have a buff/debuff active at any given time. You can make decisions based on stealth or not because Blizz provides the [stealth] and [nostealth] qualifiers, but given they don't have ability-specific qualifiers like [shadowdance] and [noshadowdance], you can't do what you are asking.

If you were out of stealth, and had ShadowDance on, would it be possible to have [stealth] work in the macro? Like, a macro such as "[nostealth], Backstab; [stealth] Ambush"? Would ShadowDance trigger the [stealth] qualifier or is it too specific to do that?

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Old 04/14/09, 8:02 PM   #2507
Nightsshadow
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Spinebreaker
I am wondering with the new glyphs comming with 3.1 what are rogues going to be using.
Glyph of mutilate
-Glyph of mutilate is a must.
Glyph of Rupture
-I find this helps on keeping bleeds on rogue and its a big help vs plate class
Glyph of Slice and dice
-once again helps alot vs plate classes
Glyph of Cloak of shadows
-now a mini pain suppression, it would help alot of you can get it off while a rogue bursts you or if ur being heavy focused in any arena but it doesnt help with any of the damage part of arena.
Glyph of Envenom
-With this it might be viable to get a 2nd dagger with deadly poison on it and keep up those 5 stacks with shiv to take down high armor classes. Envenom ignores armor and vs plate classes this will be handy but you will lose energy and GCDs keeping this up. To be honest not sure if its worth it, but would do alot vs plate.

Also if glyph of envenom is used would you hold the weapon with DP permenantly while fighting that person or swap it in with a shiv macro and just keep the 5 stacks up.
Permenatly
-no need to shiv
-loose mind numbing poisons/ 1/2 wound poisons
-less chance to apply crippling poison

Shiv deadly
-you keep 3 poisons up
-loose energy on shivs
-close attention to keep on or you will forget


atm im thinking put it on till you stack 5 then switch the other weapon on and shiv to keep it on is what im thinking atm

-i mite have ranted a bit

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Old 04/14/09, 8:23 PM   #2508
Chack
Piston Honda
 
Troll Rogue
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Glyph of Envenom got removed a while ago.

Prep, Mutilate, ToTT, CoS will all be great in PvP.

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Old 04/15/09, 1:53 AM   #2509
Nightsshadow
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Spinebreaker
Prep, Mutilate, ToTT, CoS will all be great in PvP.
ToTT?

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Old 04/15/09, 4:19 AM   #2510
mofidik
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Tricks of the Trade glyph, pretty much the most obvious choice for any bursty setup you might run, and probably for rogue/priest too.

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Old 04/16/09, 2:21 AM   #2511
Nightsshadow
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Spinebreaker
ahh yeah true but i run healer/rogue druid rogue or pally rogue at times not really doin much cuz my druid plays the pally terribly lol.

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Old 04/16/09, 5:32 AM   #2512
Kuroii
Glass Joe
 
Kuroii's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Shadowmoon
Everyone should take a look at hemo its making a great comeback if you are looking at that sustained damage. it seems to be buffed back to what hemo used to be and with Glyph of Hemo ,Vigor, and CloS.. it should shine pretty well with its constant damage..

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Old 04/17/09, 10:45 AM   #2513
Palanuial
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Rogue
 
Jaedenar (EU)
If you're speccing hemo, you're probably speccing SDance as well. So SD glyph becomes pretty much a must have. And if you look at talented and glyphed tricks of the trade, it's 25% more damage for 6s everyone 20s at the cost of 15e. So that looks very interesting. Which brings us to the 3. Glyph, where there are several possibly viable choices.

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Old 04/17/09, 2:48 PM   #2514
Corbinator
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Gorgonnash
My main is a hunter and I've been working on a Rogue to play with at lvl 19 for now in Warsong Gulch. I am going to go combat spec and wondering at this level if I should go with both hands swords or MH sword and OH dagger for best dps. My main is enchanter so I'm also thinking of Crusader on both weapons, unless someone tells me +15 agility is hugely better.

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Old 04/19/09, 5:46 AM   #2515
Kuroii
Glass Joe
 
Kuroii's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by Palanuial View Post
If you're speccing hemo, you're probably speccing SDance as well. So SD glyph becomes pretty much a must have. And if you look at talented and glyphed tricks of the trade, it's 25% more damage for 6s everyone 20s at the cost of 15e. So that looks very interesting. Which brings us to the 3. Glyph, where there are several possibly viable choices.
No i mean the Hemo Spec would be 27/0/44 which is SS/Hemo.... without daggers with the Glyph of Hemo and Cloak of shadows and Vigor glyph its a really strong build

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Old 04/19/09, 6:57 AM   #2516
Riddel
Glass Joe
 
Riddel's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Dragonmaw
I know I'm pushing it in terms of a handholding infraction, but I really don't know where to ask this (since Blizzard forums are generally garbage and a lot of the information I find elsewhere is somewhat dated). My long time arena partner quit WoW right after Christmas, and I just sort of fell out of doing any PvP on my rogue. Now that dual spec is in, I'm very excited to arena again, but I realize I have no idea what I'm doing.

Partner wise, I'm looking at a mage or a pally who has offered to try both holy and ret. But given that we can't group queue for skirmishes, and rated matches are disabled, I haven't really done anything except battlegrounds.

I'm planning on sticking with mut/prep, but I'm a little confused. In the early weeks of s5, I didn't really get much when I tried it early last season, but I see a lot of people speccing it and only 2/3 FW right now; additionally I see a lot of Blood Spatter and Vile Poisons in conjunction with double Wound. Firstly, is 2/3 FA and 3/3 FW that much worse? And second, are matches lasting long enough against solid targets that the damage from Woundx2/bleeds is going to be optimal?

Mind Numbing - I see that some combination of the nerf and the damage from Wound is pushing this away from a mainstay, but I'm unsure how often you guys are swapping in an offhand with it. Against everyone who casts spells, or just particular classes? Along the same lines, I went with a chain on my offhand last season because so many more people were disarming than in TBC, but I'm wondering if I should relegate that to a secondary weapon.

On the topic of resilience, I see some classes stacking 900 and most rogues staying under 500. Does this mean rogues can still wear a large a mount of PvE gear? Should I be trying to maintain either 2 or 4pc Bonescythe bonuses? This also makes me wonder about trinket selection. I see some of the top recommendations being Grim Toll, DMC: Death, Gnomish Lightning Generator, and the "Lifegiving Gem" trinkets. I could probably procure the engineering trinket and DMC, but I already have a bunch of PvE trinkets (DMC: Greatness, FotFF, Mirror) and Anvil of the Titans. I was leaning towards Greatness and the new Platinum Discs (I've always preferred activated trinkets).

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Old 04/19/09, 5:29 PM   #2517
Palanuial
Don Flamenco
 
Palanuial's Avatar
 
Orc Rogue
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Kuroii View Post
No i mean the Hemo Spec would be 27/0/44 which is SS/Hemo.... without daggers with the Glyph of Hemo and Cloak of shadows and Vigor glyph its a really strong build
Aren't you essentially trading SD for CB with that?

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Old 04/19/09, 6:56 PM   #2518
Palanuial
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Rogue
 
Jaedenar (EU)
I'd say mage, but it really depends more on who you work best with.

Talents really depend on what comp you're playing, some comps are all about burst, while others can work with the kind of bleed/poison damage that going around. I realize that doesn't really answer your question, but it's something that depends on comp and style of play.
As for the FA vs FW, it's both a matter of them being worth around the same, and FA (slightly) increasing CP-generation.

Mind-numbing is useful against casters who rely on casting a lot
And having a chain on your OH is a must against anyone who can disarm.

Resilience is also something that depends on what comp you play and how you play it. And also on what the players at your rating tend to attack.

There's quite some "play and see what happens, and then adjust" advice I'm giving, but it's hard to make generalized statements.

That aside, you're probably spot on with the trinkets. Greatness because it's so good, and the other because activated trinkets are better than passive.

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Old 04/19/09, 10:05 PM   #2519
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
Grunge's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Offensive activated trinkets are not always better since unless you're poping them constantly they're not really as good as a passive trinket.

Also as a rogue I don't see swapping out Battlemaster's, since the 3.3k hp buffer has saved my life on countless occasions.

Greatness is probably BiS though at least until we see Ulduar trinkets (Hardmode especially).


Edit: After checking Furious offset pieces my suggested purchase order would be
Ring (If you're using Hateful or Ring of Invincibility, Sort-of tied with Surge-Needle Ring) >= Boots/Belt > Cloak > Neck.

This is not assuming "upgrade"/honorcost though so if you're worried about that, you should draw your own conclusions.

Last edited by Grunge : 04/19/09 at 10:19 PM.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 04/20/09, 8:41 AM   #2520
Palanuial
Don Flamenco
 
Palanuial's Avatar
 
Orc Rogue
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Grunge View Post
Offensive activated trinkets are not always better since unless you're poping them constantly they're not really as good as a passive trinket.

Also as a rogue I don't see swapping out Battlemaster's, since the 3.3k hp buffer has saved my life on countless occasions.
You're definitely right about the Battlemaster's.

But a passive trinket is more likely to be down when you need it, then it is to be up.
An activated trinket isn't good because it contributes damage over time, it good because it's there when you need it, just like the GLG.

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Old 04/20/09, 1:02 PM   #2521
Taiyoken
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Aegwynn
Originally Posted by Riddel View Post
I know I'm pushing it in terms of a handholding infraction, but I really don't know where to ask this (since Blizzard forums are generally garbage and a lot of the information I find elsewhere is somewhat dated). My long time arena partner quit WoW right after Christmas, and I just sort of fell out of doing any PvP on my rogue. Now that dual spec is in, I'm very excited to arena again, but I realize I have no idea what I'm doing.

Partner wise, I'm looking at a mage or a pally who has offered to try both holy and ret. But given that we can't group queue for skirmishes, and rated matches are disabled, I haven't really done anything except battlegrounds.

I'm planning on sticking with mut/prep, but I'm a little confused. In the early weeks of s5, I didn't really get much when I tried it early last season, but I see a lot of people speccing it and only 2/3 FW right now; additionally I see a lot of Blood Spatter and Vile Poisons in conjunction with double Wound. Firstly, is 2/3 FA and 3/3 FW that much worse? And second, are matches lasting long enough against solid targets that the damage from Woundx2/bleeds is going to be optimal?

Mind Numbing - I see that some combination of the nerf and the damage from Wound is pushing this away from a mainstay, but I'm unsure how often you guys are swapping in an offhand with it. Against everyone who casts spells, or just particular classes? Along the same lines, I went with a chain on my offhand last season because so many more people were disarming than in TBC, but I'm wondering if I should relegate that to a secondary weapon.

On the topic of resilience, I see some classes stacking 900 and most rogues staying under 500. Does this mean rogues can still wear a large a mount of PvE gear? Should I be trying to maintain either 2 or 4pc Bonescythe bonuses? This also makes me wonder about trinket selection. I see some of the top recommendations being Grim Toll, DMC: Death, Gnomish Lightning Generator, and the "Lifegiving Gem" trinkets. I could probably procure the engineering trinket and DMC, but I already have a bunch of PvE trinkets (DMC: Greatness, FotFF, Mirror) and Anvil of the Titans. I was leaning towards Greatness and the new Platinum Discs (I've always preferred activated trinkets).
Rogues are one of the classes who will change specs and gear based on the comp they play. Blood spatter is usually a 2v2 talent when you play with a pally/shaman/druid healer, because you'll be playing slightly more defensive than you do with a priest. Usually you should spec 3/3 FA, because it's been shown that FA does add a lot of energy if you're staying on your target and can give you the extra energy you need for an extra attack. Double wound is the best for mut - you could swap in Mind Numbing but it's generally useless as many casts are now instant. I usually stick to double wound all the time, because the damage you get from it is comparable to the (nerfed) slow cast time.

Also, you can use a chain and a poison at the same time.

Resilience also depends on the comp and your playstyle. Rogue/mage should wear as very little resil as possible (you're not there to outlast, just to kill very quickly), while Druid/Rogue should probably wear more than normal. This depends on your playstyle and if you are good enough to avoid burst, or if you just like to play suicidal. Damage proc trinkets like bandits, dmc: death, and glg are usually used in a burst comp. For PvP, DMCeath is probably better than DMC:Greatness. Stuff like FotFF, Anvil of Titans, DMC:Greatness are not top for PvP because while you can somewhat control the proc, you can't control how long it'll stay up due to ccs, target switches, etc. This makes damage proc and static trinkets better.

The big thing about playing a rogue is the opener, so using a glg/dmc:death/bandit's is very good because you can cheapshot then unload like 4-8k damage in procs (depending on crits) from a pyro rocket-> bandits -> dmc: death. In arenas when you see your teammate drop from 100-30% in the first 2 seconds of a CS, you tend to panic.

Playing a rogue because of this is fun, because you can swap to a very defensive class (although this is subjective, rogues still roll over and die when you focus them), to a very offensive rogue who can drop you in 2-3 globals if you fail to cc him enough or be aware enough.

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Old 04/20/09, 3:40 PM   #2522
Kuroii
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Rogue
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by Palanuial View Post
Aren't you essentially trading SD for CB with that?
Yes .... but you see with the new PPM the chance to pro a poison has increased by weapon speed the slower the weapon the higher chance with a 2.5 weapon speed you have a 92% chance to put up the poison ... and shadow dance is for burst damage and rogues... idk if you did play Hemo Pre Wotlk but in burning crusade it was the strong build until it got nerfed.. now with the recent buff back to its original 10% more damage from sinister calling.. and the poison proc which is basically added to hemos damage it seems to be a good build .. this build is meant to be with swords/maces/fist... Rogues were good without daggers too..

Last edited by Kuroii : 04/21/09 at 1:45 PM.

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Old 04/21/09, 10:11 AM   #2523
Palanuial
Don Flamenco
 
Palanuial's Avatar
 
Orc Rogue
 
Jaedenar (EU)
You can play Shadow Dance with hemorrhage.

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Old 04/23/09, 7:13 AM   #2524
azador
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Hoping to not make this a hold my hand thread but after running various searches through this thread and looking at arenajunkies and even the wow forums I am still left unsure as to the answer to a couple of questions.

I am intending on going with a Currently 38/5/25

I am not sure where to put the last 2 points of this. I am going to mainly be playing with a resto shaman so I was considering dropping 1 point from FW and putting 3 in to DN.

A lot of then 41/5/25 builds that I have seen via armoury have FA included and I am unsure as to whether I will be missing out on the additional energy.

If anyone can give me some better details on where to spend the last 2 or 3 points, or even link me to a post with the information that I have missed is, it would be most appreciated.

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Old 04/23/09, 10:39 AM   #2525
Vanadi
Piston Honda
 
Vanadi's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
I usually tend to ignore FA and take 3/3 deadened nerves and 2/3 FW. Especially when playing with a healer I find the 6% reduced damage taken very valuable because games tend to last alot longer and this allows you to go toe to toe with deathknights/hunters etc better.

Objects are not deceiving, they are deception.
What we see what we hear, all that our sences present to us is a fiction no more real then a dream.
We can only know that which we believe, that is all we have.

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