[Rogue] PVP Stat Standards/advice - Page 11

sp00n · 10/03/07, 7:47 AM

Erm.
If you're wielding a sword offhand and a mace mainhand, a mace/sword spec combo will actually result in an offhand sword proccing a mainhand swing, which in turn can proc a mace stun.

That is, IF procs are still able to proc of procs, which Blizzard said wouldn't be working anymore. Yet they didn't say which procs were blocked. All (including poisons, weapon procs, etc), or only of the same type.

Tower · 10/03/07, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by berzerked

And thats the problem imo: "whenever you're not scrambling to keep a target in melee range" - it feels like you spend more time chasing your oponent and doing instas/ or using cp to lock them down. Feels like out of the 40sec+ snd you are probably going to get about 20 seconds of actual usage.. but i just think you give up so much utility/opening power for white dmg.

What utility are you lacking when you Cheapshot > SnD and begin to spend energy on SS? Kidney Shot is on a pretty long cooldown, using it early without the ability to close on your target's health is a surefire way for your target to escape with no danger at all. Any combat build will have Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes, dropping a 2-3CP SnD is an amazing way to increase your damage, poison application and mace procs, like previously stated. Those mace procs are what allow you to chain Proc > Imp Kick > 5CP KS > Imp Kick and put your target down. We don't have that many finishers to choose from.

20s out of 40s(it's 30s...) is still a ton of extra damage when you're dual wielding double near 100dps maces. Your finisher efficiency is where those points in Ass. really come in handy, you don't need to spend 5cp on SnD to make it game changing.

berzerked · 10/03/07, 12:24 PM

well said Tower.

I guess the "utility" i'm refering to is: mod/camo and the nicer things from assasination like fleet footed and/or quick recovery. Also having your blind up every 1.5 min and your vanish every 3.5 min is NICE

and so is prep - all of which yeild more options imo. Don't forget that even though combat has that nice +10% fear resist.. sub has +15% to resist all aoe attacks

(include aoe fear :P).

Sub isn't that gimp in dmg either... +10% atk power, serrated blades (ALL attakcs ignore x amount of armor)

Like I said, I will def try combat maces. I just got a bit upset when I came back 2 weeks ago (last log in was nov 2005) and see everybody looking down on sub builds.

Ozzmar · 10/03/07, 12:50 PM

Eh, the utility from Sub is marginal is most pvp settings. It's nice to be able to be lazy and Stealth around quickly, but it's far from necessary. And the reduced cooldowns on Blind and Vanish have basically no use in Arena (though that may change once the Blind "fix" is in), and Vanishing in a Battleground is never really game-breaking. I won't even comment on the aoe avoidance talent...

By the way, spell and capitalize things correctly or you're gonna get your hand slapped.

Tower · 10/03/07, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by berzerked

well said Tower.

I guess the "utility" i'm refering to is: mod/camo and the nicer things from assasination like fleet footed and/or quick recovery. Also having your blind up every 1.5 min and your vanish every 3.5 min is NICE

and so is prep - all of which yeild more options imo. Don't forget that even though combat has that nice +10% fear resist.. sub has +15% to resist all aoe attacks

(include aoe fear :P).

Sub isn't that gimp in dmg either... +10% atk power, serrated blades (ALL attakcs ignore x amount of armor)

Like I said, I will def try combat maces. I just got a bit upset when I came back 2 weeks ago (last log in was nov 2005) and see everybody looking down on sub builds.

Ah ok, wasn't following your reference to using points in Sub instead for more utility.

Since the nerf to Prep not resetting CloS and Blind, the precision of heavy Sub has lost its value in end game arenas. 5/AR/Prep builds can do pretty well in 2v2 and 3v3 setups, but you just can't match the brute force of Combat Maces right now, through good communication Mutilate comes very close though. 2 evasions, 2 vanishes and 2 sprints doesn't do you much good against warlock teams, which are rampant.

berzerked · 10/03/07, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ozzmar

I won't even comment on the aoe avoidance talent...

? Please elaborate, because I would like to know if I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of that talent.

Grunge · 10/04/07, 6:49 AM

Although Precision sais it requires melee weapons.
Have there been any tests performed? I know there are different hit ratings for melee and ranged, but also for talents?

Precision talent: "Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by x%".
Easily tested, unequip any gear that has +hit and try to blind someone over and over. You should end up with 5% miss chance.
Also possible to test with Throw or Deadly Throw.

Ozzmar · 10/04/07, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by berzerked

? Please elaborate, because I would like to know if I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of that talent.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude if I did. I just meant that if you're going deep Subt, there are several other talents that are much more worthy investments.

Would you mind linking your Armory or filling out your profile so I can see your talents? I'm curious to see what you gave up to get that talent.

Mr. Troll · 10/04/07, 9:54 AM

berzerked · 10/04/07, 6:06 PM

Done

I think it's a good talent, and I intentionaly went that far into subt, atleast for the time being (still trying to get 2 maces).

Kuai · 10/05/07, 6:39 AM

What kind of gems do you guys use in your pvp gear? I am sort of thinking of using our guilds excess BT purple gems to replace some 16 AP gems i have. Should I stick with the 1500AP 10.4k HP I have now or gem in some more stamina/dodge/crit.
The Armory

• Wodin · 10/05/07, 7:19 AM

I'm not really sure how you guys manage to have excess purple gems(no casters using MSD I guess?) but 10AP/7sta gems are probably your best bet. AP is relatively unmitigated because it's a raw DPS increase, and having the extra stamina will give you a nice buffer.

Tower · 10/05/07, 10:53 AM

I will always prefer 6sta and 4agi for purple, you get double defensive stats (hp and dodge) and double offensive stats (crit and ap), dunno if there is a BT gem cut that is similar.

Since I gave up on 5v5 I have replaced all my red/yellow gems with 4hit/4agi and since I'm running combat maces. PvP gear is lacking so much hit I felt I was missing too many white hits with Snd/Bloodlust (my 3v3 has a shaman), so I wanted to up my poison procs and mace stun chance.

I really wish their was a +hit/ap set.

Grunge · 10/07/07, 5:58 AM

Originally Posted by Wodin

I'm not really sure how you guys manage to have excess purple gems(no casters using MSD I guess?) but 10AP/7sta gems are probably your best bet. AP is relatively unmitigated because it's a raw DPS increase, and having the extra stamina will give you a nice buffer.

Yes but 5agi/7sta offers more synergy with Paladins, not to mention double defensive stat.

Gems haven't been a issue really since mother trash farming we do every once in a while.
(Red being the exception...).

Originally Posted by Tower

I will always prefer 6sta and 4agi for purple, you get double defensive stats (hp and dodge) and double offensive stats (crit and ap), dunno if there is a BT gem cut that is similar.

Since I gave up on 5v5 I have replaced all my red/yellow gems with 4hit/4agi and since I'm running combat maces. PvP gear is lacking so much hit I felt I was missing too many white hits with Snd/Bloodlust (my 3v3 has a shaman), so I wanted to up my poison procs and mace stun chance.

I really wish their was a +hit/ap set.

There's 5crit/10ap. But I'd suggest against it. Agility is imo always better for pvp than pure AP. Dodge, crit and synergy with BoK. Then again I guess if one is using pure PvP Gear they are very low on AP... Down to personal preference I guess.

Kreoss · 10/09/07, 12:54 AM

If they buff Hemorrage, and with the buff to "dirty deeds" and the really nice buff to fleet footed, i'm thinking of trying this build after 2.3 hits the ground.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I'm currently specced combat swords for PvP, was Mutilate for a long time, but I'm prefering combat swords right now, since AR+BF + Non Positional... is Ace.

What do you think?