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Old 10/03/07, 7:47 AM   #151
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Erm.
If you're wielding a sword offhand and a mace mainhand, a mace/sword spec combo will actually result in an offhand sword proccing a mainhand swing, which in turn can proc a mace stun.

That is, IF procs are still able to proc of procs, which Blizzard said wouldn't be working anymore. Yet they didn't say which procs were blocked. All (including poisons, weapon procs, etc), or only of the same type.

Stopped Playing

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Old 10/03/07, 11:26 AM   #152
Tower
King Hippo
 
Undead Rogue
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by berzerked View Post
And thats the problem imo: "whenever you're not scrambling to keep a target in melee range" - it feels like you spend more time chasing your oponent and doing instas/ or using cp to lock them down. Feels like out of the 40sec+ snd you are probably going to get about 20 seconds of actual usage.. but i just think you give up so much utility/opening power for white dmg.
What utility are you lacking when you Cheapshot > SnD and begin to spend energy on SS? Kidney Shot is on a pretty long cooldown, using it early without the ability to close on your target's health is a surefire way for your target to escape with no danger at all. Any combat build will have Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes, dropping a 2-3CP SnD is an amazing way to increase your damage, poison application and mace procs, like previously stated. Those mace procs are what allow you to chain Proc > Imp Kick > 5CP KS > Imp Kick and put your target down. We don't have that many finishers to choose from.

20s out of 40s(it's 30s...) is still a ton of extra damage when you're dual wielding double near 100dps maces. Your finisher efficiency is where those points in Ass. really come in handy, you don't need to spend 5cp on SnD to make it game changing.

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Old 10/03/07, 12:24 PM   #153
berzerked
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Skullcrusher
well said Tower.

I guess the "utility" i'm refering to is: mod/camo and the nicer things from assasination like fleet footed and/or quick recovery. Also having your blind up every 1.5 min and your vanish every 3.5 min is NICE and so is prep - all of which yeild more options imo. Don't forget that even though combat has that nice +10% fear resist.. sub has +15% to resist all aoe attacks (include aoe fear :P).

Sub isn't that gimp in dmg either... +10% atk power, serrated blades (ALL attakcs ignore x amount of armor)

Like I said, I will def try combat maces. I just got a bit upset when I came back 2 weeks ago (last log in was nov 2005) and see everybody looking down on sub builds.

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Old 10/03/07, 12:50 PM   #154
Ozzmar
Don Flamenco
 
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Worgen Priest
 
Magtheridon
Eh, the utility from Sub is marginal is most pvp settings. It's nice to be able to be lazy and Stealth around quickly, but it's far from necessary. And the reduced cooldowns on Blind and Vanish have basically no use in Arena (though that may change once the Blind "fix" is in), and Vanishing in a Battleground is never really game-breaking. I won't even comment on the aoe avoidance talent...

By the way, spell and capitalize things correctly or you're gonna get your hand slapped.

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Old 10/03/07, 1:26 PM   #155
Tower
King Hippo
 
Undead Rogue
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by berzerked View Post
well said Tower.

I guess the "utility" i'm refering to is: mod/camo and the nicer things from assasination like fleet footed and/or quick recovery. Also having your blind up every 1.5 min and your vanish every 3.5 min is NICE and so is prep - all of which yeild more options imo. Don't forget that even though combat has that nice +10% fear resist.. sub has +15% to resist all aoe attacks (include aoe fear :P).

Sub isn't that gimp in dmg either... +10% atk power, serrated blades (ALL attakcs ignore x amount of armor)

Like I said, I will def try combat maces. I just got a bit upset when I came back 2 weeks ago (last log in was nov 2005) and see everybody looking down on sub builds.
Ah ok, wasn't following your reference to using points in Sub instead for more utility.

Since the nerf to Prep not resetting CloS and Blind, the precision of heavy Sub has lost its value in end game arenas. 5/AR/Prep builds can do pretty well in 2v2 and 3v3 setups, but you just can't match the brute force of Combat Maces right now, through good communication Mutilate comes very close though. 2 evasions, 2 vanishes and 2 sprints doesn't do you much good against warlock teams, which are rampant.

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Old 10/03/07, 6:09 PM   #156
berzerked
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Skullcrusher
Originally Posted by Ozzmar View Post
I won't even comment on the aoe avoidance talent...
? Please elaborate, because I would like to know if I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of that talent.

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Old 10/04/07, 6:49 AM   #157
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
Grunge's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Although Precision sais it requires melee weapons.
Have there been any tests performed? I know there are different hit ratings for melee and ranged, but also for talents?
Precision talent: "Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by x%".
Easily tested, unequip any gear that has +hit and try to blind someone over and over. You should end up with 5% miss chance.
Also possible to test with Throw or Deadly Throw.

Last edited by Grunge : 10/04/07 at 6:55 AM.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 10/04/07, 9:48 AM   #158
Ozzmar
Don Flamenco
 
Ozzmar's Avatar
 
Worgen Priest
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by berzerked View Post
? Please elaborate, because I would like to know if I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of that talent.
Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude if I did. I just meant that if you're going deep Subt, there are several other talents that are much more worthy investments.

Would you mind linking your Armory or filling out your profile so I can see your talents? I'm curious to see what you gave up to get that talent.

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Old 10/04/07, 9:54 AM   #159
Mr. Troll
Banned
 
Inapplicable
Gnome Shaman
 
No WoW Account
jjj

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Old 10/04/07, 6:06 PM   #160
berzerked
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Skullcrusher
Done

I think it's a good talent, and I intentionaly went that far into subt, atleast for the time being (still trying to get 2 maces).

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Old 10/05/07, 6:39 AM   #161
Kuai
Von Kaiser
 
Kuai's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
What kind of gems do you guys use in your pvp gear? I am sort of thinking of using our guilds excess BT purple gems to replace some 16 AP gems i have. Should I stick with the 1500AP 10.4k HP I have now or gem in some more stamina/dodge/crit.
The Armory

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Old 10/05/07, 7:19 AM   #162
• Wodin
Thoroughly Inebriated
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
I'm not really sure how you guys manage to have excess purple gems(no casters using MSD I guess?) but 10AP/7sta gems are probably your best bet. AP is relatively unmitigated because it's a raw DPS increase, and having the extra stamina will give you a nice buffer.

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Old 10/05/07, 10:53 AM   #163
Tower
King Hippo
 
Undead Rogue
 
Blackhand
I will always prefer 6sta and 4agi for purple, you get double defensive stats (hp and dodge) and double offensive stats (crit and ap), dunno if there is a BT gem cut that is similar.

Since I gave up on 5v5 I have replaced all my red/yellow gems with 4hit/4agi and since I'm running combat maces. PvP gear is lacking so much hit I felt I was missing too many white hits with Snd/Bloodlust (my 3v3 has a shaman), so I wanted to up my poison procs and mace stun chance.

I really wish their was a +hit/ap set.

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Old 10/07/07, 5:58 AM   #164
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Wodin View Post
I'm not really sure how you guys manage to have excess purple gems(no casters using MSD I guess?) but 10AP/7sta gems are probably your best bet. AP is relatively unmitigated because it's a raw DPS increase, and having the extra stamina will give you a nice buffer.
Yes but 5agi/7sta offers more synergy with Paladins, not to mention double defensive stat.

Gems haven't been a issue really since mother trash farming we do every once in a while.
(Red being the exception...).

Originally Posted by Tower View Post
I will always prefer 6sta and 4agi for purple, you get double defensive stats (hp and dodge) and double offensive stats (crit and ap), dunno if there is a BT gem cut that is similar.

Since I gave up on 5v5 I have replaced all my red/yellow gems with 4hit/4agi and since I'm running combat maces. PvP gear is lacking so much hit I felt I was missing too many white hits with Snd/Bloodlust (my 3v3 has a shaman), so I wanted to up my poison procs and mace stun chance.

I really wish their was a +hit/ap set.
There's 5crit/10ap. But I'd suggest against it. Agility is imo always better for pvp than pure AP. Dodge, crit and synergy with BoK. Then again I guess if one is using pure PvP Gear they are very low on AP... Down to personal preference I guess.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 10/09/07, 12:54 AM   #165
Kreoss
Von Kaiser
 
Kreoss's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Quel'Thalas (EU)
If they buff Hemorrage, and with the buff to "dirty deeds" and the really nice buff to fleet footed, i'm thinking of trying this build after 2.3 hits the ground.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I'm currently specced combat swords for PvP, was Mutilate for a long time, but I'm prefering combat swords right now, since AR+BF + Non Positional... is Ace.

What do you think?

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