Akraat

Just keep running trial of the champion hc 5 man every day until The Black Night drops x2 Black Night's Rondel, 163 dps daggers - sorry I don't have link wowhead was down when I posted this.

 

Forgiven

I have been running (H)ToC daily to try for the dagger. This sword happened to drop so this seemed better for the time being.

 

Sepulture

I love the envenom damage from 44/2/25 and 44/4/23. I wish they would correct the envenom tooltip as well; the ability does ridiculous damage with even one or two stacks of DP on the target. What I am struggling with is whether to run slow MH (DP) slow OH (W) or slow MH (W) fast OH (DP).

With MH (DP) it seems those first two mutilates and white hits almost always get a stack of DP on the target, which allows for that starting envenom. There seem to be fewer RNG issues at the start, which is the most critical time.

With fast OH (DP) there seems to be a longer interval on average before the DP is applied and shiving just feels clunky. Still, over an extended period of time the fast OH (DP) seems to work better if you can stick to your target and not end up the subject of a lot of stuns and focus dps.

I'm curious what the highly rated rogues are doing. Are you primarily using a fast OH (DP) with SnD and then swapping to slow OH (W) for cloth teams?

 

Forgiven

Septulture how much hit rating are you running? I found the same problem but starts improving as my hit goes up.

 

Vonlego

This is what I'm doing, but my teams are not that high. I'm floating around 22-2300.

 

drumbum

I'm looking to try the 44/2/25 spec and am about to buy my Relentless offhand, but was looking for opinions on which speed offhand to go with. I know it's ideal to weapon swap between two different offhands based on my opponent, but that's not an option since I need to save up the arena points for set pieces.

For those of you who have had some experience with the spec, which speed offhand would you suggest? Should I even bother with the spec if I only have one offhand?

Thanks for any input anyone can provide.

Edit: I think I've found some good advice through arenajunkies. Somehow I completely forgot about that site.

Since other people reading this might have the same question, I figured I'd summarize what most people are suggesting on that site. It appears there are two camps, some who prefer to run DP mainhand + WP offhand, using dual-1.8 speed weapons. This allows you to use Shiv to apply crippling and wound poison in situations where that is helpful.

Others prefer WP mainhand + DP offhand with a 1.4 speed offhand. In this setup you can apply and maintain deadly poison more easily, but you won't be able to proc crippling poison on demand. It also does a bit less Mutilate damage, although not very much.

 

Valustria

I just tried this spec tonight and the 1.8 speed dagger I was using -- [Gouge of the Frigid Heart] -- seemed really slow to apply Deadly Poison stacks. I switched and tried using my heroic [Orcish Deathblade] and seemed to have a much easier time getting Deadly onto my targets. I think I prefer the simplicity of dual Wound and Eviscerate though.

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Cos-

If you use a 1.4 for DP you'll want a 1.8 to swap to for double wound. Double 1.8 is for lazy people like myself!

I've really been enjoying 44/4/23 with double 1.8 (dp/wp). Heightened Senses is a crutch :P

 

middleman

I've just started arenas 2's and 3's and aren't to sure what is best to gem.
If I'm speced into FA, would I be better off gemming agil, or ap? And or going 50/50 gems with stam?

 

Akraat

What you want to do is basically go full AP. No exceptions, use another colour to activate your meta (personally I prefer relentless meta gem). Nothing more to it than that.

 

Valustria

On second thought, 44/2/25 is really strong (and I might give 44/4/23 a try soon since I rarely ever find other rogues first and have just adapted my play style to be more aggressive anyway). I think my initial impression was too harsh given that I hadn't tried the spec with healer support. It works better when you have someone who can help keep you up because it's all about applying more long-term pressure to heavily armored targets until you have full Deadly stacks and you can start pumping out some sick burst. It's an investment: you sacrifice the early burst of a Cold Blood -> Eviscerate combo that can sometimes help you quickly dispatch lightly armored targets and instead set up a later Cold Blood -> Envenom that laughs at plate and bearskin.

Things I've learned about it in the last couple days:

1) Your first Envenom almost always just sets up the rest that follow. As such it's not important that it be a crit, just that it gives you the Envenom buff long enough to stack some more Deadly Poison on your target.

2) For that reason, never Cold Blood your first Envenom. I use a 1.4 speed [Orcish Deathblade] in my OH and I still rarely have more than 1 stack of Deadly on my opponent after a Cheap Shot -> Mutilate opening. Sometimes (read: often enough), I don't get any Deadly applications at all in the span of my Cheap Shot and I have to blow my first finisher on something other than Envenom. In those cases, I'll either pop SnD or KS. I like popping SnD immediately against casters because I have a lot of interrupts to get me to my next 5CP finisher and I can save KS for a stunlock that will end in a kill. Against plate DPS, I stun them early with 5CP Kidney Shots that lead into Dismantle, then into me popping Evasion... basically, I try to buy myself as much time as possible to stack Deadly while I go toe-to-toe with them, because I know I won't be killing them in a stunlock. I'll be killing them with a full stack of Deadly that lets me hit with maximum damage Envenoms while their healer fights against the effect of Wound poison too, but that takes some time to set up.

3) 1.4 speed offhand is the way to go -- you don't want to gimp your damage with an offhand that is hitting hard and slow when you only have 2/5 points in Dual Wield Spec, not when applying Deadly stacks is so imperative.

4) I like Focused Attacks with this spec because it has good synergy with the Master Poisoner buff and the 1.4 speed offhand.

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Akraat

I'll elaborate on point one and two. I find that if you CS and get an envenom during that CS, you will usually have around 4-5 stacks, so you can pop CB for that envenom after if you wish (or you can lockdown with KS - depends on the situation).

 

Brotherbear

So one of my co-workers is bothering me to roll a horde toon to pvp with him. And, being unoriginal, I'm going to roll a rogue. Especially since he wants me to join a 3v3 with a priest and a mage.

Looking over the racials it seems to favour Undead. However with the nerf in 3.3 (and the fact that I won't be 80 pre-3.3) I think things are slightly less clear. To that end I wondering if the troll racial stacked with fleet footed since neither clearly states that they do not.

 

Valustria

Another benefit to Envenom builds: the Master Poisoner buff helps your teammates in BGs! I mean, it should be obvious, but I didn't think about it until I was actually doing WSG and I saw mages frostbolting my targets -- it has to help them a good deal, I'd bet.

Edit: Wait, maybe it doesn't help casters... does it? In any case, it helps anyone who makes "attacks" against the target. I dunno if that means melee/physical only, or if magical is included.

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

drumbum

Yes it affects caster spells as well.

 

Brotherbear

So I know the rogue forums have dismissed the Ony weapons as inferior for PvE. But I was wondering about PvP since I have the option of [Sinister Revenge] or [Tarnished Gutgore Ripper] for my 2nd 1.8 speed dagger for double wound setups (I run Steelbladebreaker for 1.4 deadly).

I'm sorry to be bringing all my weapon questions here, and if anyone can suggest a method for testing (bursting on target dummies maybe) I'd love to do the math myself.

Thanks

 

Valustria

I'd use the [Tarnished Gutgore Ripper]. It has higher top-end damage than Sinister Revenge, and the proc effect, unless it never happens, should be very useful. Think about it: they lose 1300 health, 260 AP, their mana pool and regen drops... it's pretty nasty if it lands, especially if it can't be dispelled. (Can it be dispelled?)

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Vonlego

In regard to trolls stacking with fleet footed, yes it works. They also stack with the meta, and I've heard of some pretty fantastic numbers for snare duration. Is this the best option? Not sure! The only thing I know now is that undead isn't the only race a rogue can roll with out shooting himself in his own foot.

 

Danzir

I am new to arena, as I just started dabbling in it about 4 weeks ago. Been a pve rogue exclusively up till then. Besides working out all the kinds of real player vs real player interaction, I am finding my survivalability low, burst low. I am doing 2s with a Ret Pally, and I am curious what the best spec/glyphs/gear is for such a set up.

Currently i am running full furious with relentless offpieces with pve daggers (178dps 1.8), 5+% hit, ~760resilience, cookie cutter arena spec:
41/5/25 (glyphs: mut, vigor, sprint [was using CoS])

Besides the "transition to arena bad/newb mistakes" I am curious what is best for me teaming with a Ret Pally (he is also willing to go prot pally if that is a better bet with a rogue). Please advise.

Truth is treason in the Empire of Lies - Ron Paul

 

Valustria

So, I was having a difficult time in 2s with my Disc partner recently, and I figured I'd try something totally different to see how things would turn out:

0/52/19: Maces Killing Spree

I'm a little unsure about the glyphs. Specifically, I'm not certain that the FoK glyph is better than the Ghostly Strike glyph, considering Ghostly Strike has such good synergy with Unfair Advantage against other melee. Anyway, Killing Spree with two slow maces and double Wound Poison is a massive spike against anyone, and god help them if you can pop Blade Flurry and catch them both together! And yes, that's basically the big gimmick of the spec, but I feel like I could play this better than I have so far and already our rating has improved making this switch from either version of Mutilate.

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Theshadow

For teaming up with a ret pally I find 44/2/25 mutilate spec works the best though I have seen it done with sub rogues.

Unfortuantly the thing about rogues is were easy to global, theres different techniques against certain class I use to keep myself alive longer (like garroting pallies once the silence runs out I CoS which usually will eat the stun hammer). Your going to have to rely on the fact that a ret pally with a rogues lock down can burst almost anything down in a quick manner. Also making sure you don't use your abilities the same time your pally BoP's you will also help keep you alive longer.

Usually you want to call out for the BoP when you need it most, e.i. your stuck in a stun with no trinket, you want a blind removed so you can quickly click it off (or have a macro to remove it) to finish a target etc..., if the ret is doing his job correctly, he should be removing stuns with his BoF on their focus target also.

Theres just a lot of little tricks you learn throughout, to learn to survive, best way to figure them out is A. Dueling all the classes, and B. research other classes you have problems surviving.

(also I haven't been posting on EJ much, but I am heavy in arena so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.)

 

Theshadow

It maybe a good spec for getting up to about 2k rating, but after that I've never really seen combat rogues, just because usually once you have that kind of rating the gear allows you to survive the Kspree and then combat rogues are pretty easily kiteable without the second set of cooldowns (or without fleet footed) or just not enough substained damage.

 

Bixia

My main is a resto shaman, however I rolled a rogue to play on a 2s team with a loc. Right now I am mut/prep. I run with wound/mn or wound/wound depending on the oponents. Later we will be adding a priest for 3s. I was wondering if mindnumbing poison and curse of toungs stacks. Also would a hemo spec be better for the combination(s)? And any other info you are willing to give to me I would be gratefull for.

 

Vonlego

Bixia, hemo is never the right choice anymore. There are rogues that have seen success with it, and it is a fun dueling spec, but it just isn't what it once was. I have not seen a hemo rogue in the arena for six months. 44/x/2x is the way to go hands down now days. Most don't use mind numbing poison due to wanting more dps. The affects do not stack.

 

Bixia

Thanks Vonlego, that is helpfull. So would I be better off using wound/wound, or having him use Curse of (weekness..?) to decrese there armor? And do you perfer envenom or evisc? As far as I understand envenom ignores(?) your targets armor. To use it though I would need DP on one of my daggers. I have not heard of anyone using DP in arena.