glick

I think this only happens if you get spotted, at least that is how it seemed when I tested it. However, vanishing with an aggressive pet on you does nothing

 

Depry

Well yesterday me and my priest made a push for gladiator in our 2s, we got to 2265 which is just on the border for gladiator in our BG, and I thought we should have stopped, but continued on and finished at 2157 -.-. Hoping to get some games in tomorrow (EU - patches on wednesdays) and get back up there.

That aside, I have some questions about poison talents, since i'm mutilate, and i'm staying mutilate come S3. All the prep-ar rogues i've fought since 2.3 in 2v2 don't seem to make it worth it for me to swap, we typically win by outlasting the oppponent, and once i've forced all the ar-prep rogues to burn their prep they become remarkably less scary.

Currently I have 2/2 imp EA and 3/5 vile poisons. Imp EA is the only talent that I think I could drop to max out a poison talent and still maintain the same effectiveness. Ideally i'd get 2/2 imp ea and 5/5 poison, but meh, not enough talent points.

Now, my main concern is that 2200+ I almost always see either druid or priest healers. Paladins seem to drop off around 2100 or so (I saw 2 paladins in the 2100+ games we played this week). Now vile poisons is fantastic against paladins, watching them spam cleanse and it not do anything is great, but it seems to lose a lot vs druids. My understanding is that abolish poison will do a resist check on its first tick on application, but all ticks beyond that ignore the resist check. Even with 3/5 vile, the number of times i've seen a single abolish take off all my poisons in one application is just staggering.

Would you rogues stay with 3/5 vile or do you think 3/5 imp. poisons is better in the 2200+ range? what about maxing out the chosen poison talent and dropping imp. EA? I currently really like imp ea, its damage increase is just unbeatable, but if 10% vs 6% application, or 40% vs 24% resist is going to help my poisons stay on the target better, clearly the poisons would be a better choice.

 

Tower

Stick with Imp EA, besides having a build with Premed, Mutilate is the best build for keeping EA up and dishing out a hefty amount of other finishers. And in 2200+, Vile > Imp for sure. Those poison clearing resists will win you more games than that slightly faster Wound Poison stacking.

This is personally my favorite Mutilate build.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I get 2/5 Vile and get the 1/2 Master Poisoner. Master poisoners is absolutely wonderful to negate those shiv > Crippling Poison Resist instances, and helps you drop the smack down on other non-mutilate rogues while you and your priest attempt to weather their cooldowns.

 

firebird365

As a Mutilate Rogue, how do you plan on dealing with what is certain to be a large number of AR/Prep rogues out there? I play Mutilate at the moment, and considering switching to pure Combat in S3 just because I get overwhelmed by Mace Rogues and Warriors--I feel like my survival is based entirely around landing successful Kidney Shots every 20 seconds. Paired with a Priest, why not go Maces?

 

Tower

Honestly, if you're not going to play a build that doesn't invest 21 into Sub, in my opinion the only way to do this is to always guarantee yourself the opener, which can really only be done by human rogues. An AR/prep rogue just doesn't fit well with healer/rogue, so they'll likely be playing dps/rogue. And in a 2dps setup, an AR/prep rogue cannot afford to let a mutilate rogue Cheapshot > Mutilate > Kidney, it's just too devastating, you have to trinket the Kidney or beg for a Deathcoil if your partner is a lock.

 

• Wodin

There's no real reason not to join the AR/Prep bandwagon, to be honest. Contrary to Tower's assertion, I find it works just fine as healer/rogue - you have a lot more timers to stay on target, and in particular if you play with an offensive healer like a priest you can place your opponents in a sticky situation very quickly, as they have to heal through an angry rogue who can stick to his target like glue relative to a rogue of a different spec, pop timers to apply lots of pressure if CC goes on DR or he's sure he can avoid it, has significantly more survivability than the 2.2 rogues thanks to 5% additional physical mitigation, Riposte, a second evasion, and a second vanish, oh and did I mention that his blind cooldown is up in another 30s?

Rogues are better than they've been in a very very long time. No real reason to complain about the fact we've got a single dominant PvP spec any more than Warriors, Druids, or Paladins do.

 

Backpain

I have to agree with Wodin on this one. I'm paired with a druid healer and I find AR/Prep quite enjoyable. The ability to stay on target much longer and and the on-demand damage of two AR's is great for putting pressure on a target when you want it the most.

Just last night a paladin who had heal-tanked me two games before, suddenly found himself dead before he could bubble. Its amazing what you can do if you're not afraid to blow CD's aggressively.

 

Tower

Well, my concern with healer+ar/prep is how are you going to beat war/druid? How are you going to beat Shaman/Lock and Paladin/Lock? Given equal skill and gear, you're not going to.

 

Tiiki

Au contraire - even without cooldowns, non-dagger specs are FAR better against warriors. I wish Wodin was wrong, I enjoy Mutilate FAR more, but AR/Prep is stupidly effective, especially for a non-human/non-undead like me (and Wodin ).

TBH I wish 20/0/41 was viable, and maybe it is- it actually has sustained comparable (or better?) with 31/30 after your cooldowns are up, thanks to the 15% agi and assassination talents. Maybe it is viable... just not sure I can afford to try it out yet... (use it for long enough to see if it's actually good).

I may just be rubbish, but as a previous poster noted, with daggers, Combat/AR/Prep rogues and warriors just own me. I can barely get behind them at all, even. You have one sprint, one cloak, one trinket. Then you're fucked. You may have better sustained damage, but it IS significantly harder to keep it applied. I get eaten alive by rogues/warriors when I'm mutilate- tips on these greatly appreciated (how do you make them blow their ARs without you being dead?).

Has anyone considered a 20 or 0/20 or 0/41 type build (as mentioned above) except using a Dagger for initial SStep/MoS/Premed/(new improved) Ambush -> weapon swap Hemo spam? It might not be so bad...

Finally, do rogue teams really ever have problems with things like x/Lock? With any control at all on their healer, any rogue can drop most locks. A full tank SL/SL type lock might be tough, but surely you're outputting enough damage that you can win the mana game in that one?

Even more finally-- what should I drop for the reduced Blind Cooldown? Currently I was liking Setup for the extra damage output during the cloaks and double-evasions- I really thought it upped the overall damage potential of the build, especially with CPs one of its major weak points.

 

Zyz

With my druid/rogue combo, I'm pretty sure I stand a decent chance at finding and zerging the druid down.
Although we haven't played our 2v2 in almost 7 weeks, I'm fairly confident that only really good war/druid teams will beat us.

 

Kuai

So what S3 gear choices will you all be making with your probable 5k points saved? I'll be getting the legs > helm > gloves > shoulder > body as I have no need to buy a weapon yet.

 

Vanadi

I tried 0/20/41 (first time ever speccing shadowstep, I guess 20/0/41 is probably more effective) for a bit in 2v2 arena's but I felt it lacked the damage output and control to effectively deal with warlock+druid combo. We lost 2 games in a row and this being the last week to get in Gladiator range I decided to go Ar/prep and we farmed that same team down easily. I might give shadowstep a try in season 3 again when it doesn't matter too much again as I did really enjoy it, but shadowstep lacks alot versus warlock teams as it is quite easy to keep a warlock near you. At least I'm at 2300+ 2v2 rating now and within Gladiator range.

 

Tiiki

By "lacks a lot" you mean: lacks AR/Mace Stun, I guess?

 

• Wodin

Swords(woo PvP2PvE, fuck you Illidan) -> Legs -> Gloves -> Hat -> Shoulders -> Maces -> Chest probably.

 

Zyz

I'm getting the helm, chest, and gloves. Sticking with my Shady Dealer's Pantaloons unless I start getting focused more in 3's.
Should be my final setup: 70 Undead Rogue

 

Vanadi

Yes. Because of not having RS and ruthlesness your energy/combo point gain is alot slower. Also the lack of AR to finish off a target once it drops below 35% really hurts this build. In between poison dispells thus having to shiv to apply poisons etc this build is quite vulnerable to the warlock kiting you and getting alot of spells off. With macestun and ar available it might be random but the warlock will have a harder time getting away from you and you can apply that pressure once they drop low. The way I use it though is to not be afraid to waste prep even if I still have other cooldowns up and go for the second adrenaline rush to finish a target off. As I said though, I only played a few games with both specs so I will try it out more next season. But first impression is that it really isn't cut out to battle the high end lock+resto druid teams effectively.

 

Tiiki

Are people really saving for weapons and holding off on S3 armor (Wodin!)?

Also will be buying every Honor piece, which'll be a hefty upgrade for me as I'm using a Kara neck and bracers and that spirit shard ring at the moment.

I'm definitely buying 2-3 armor pieces first (probably legs/gloves/something), then weapons when I get to 1850 (which potentially could take a month anyway (!). Yeah, we're that bad!).

 

Tiiki

Indeed, I get the impression the mobility aspect at least, of shadowstep is far better suited to 5s- 5 possible people to shadowstep to (to get out of trouble), quick target switching, etc. 20/0/41 probably misses Imp Sprint less because of this too- presumably you can SStep out of a frost nova or entagling roots? (If not: ergh, that's horrible!).

Also, lots of potential for cool jump off bridge, warrior follow, SStep back up type shenanigans.

On that note: Is Intercept/Charge/etc. currently bugged (seems to go up even when there's no path in range (range is calculated as the crow flies))? It's a huge change in 2.3 if it's intended- people have seen what I mean, right?

 

Jo

What about gemming? Are you guys gonna stack AP, mix AP and Stam, or what?

If we do stack AP, will we need to completely re-gem to respec Combat Maces or Mutilate?

 

• Wodin

Well, I'm wandering into the season with 5k saved up(unless they wipe), so it's not so much saving as choosing to spend my bling. I would love to get a full set of the S3 armor first, but my first and foremost reason for playing this game is making big glowy shit dead as fast as possible, and since Illidan is a cheap whore who refuses to give my worthy friends Warglaives, let alone me, I've gotta buy the PvE upgrades when they're just sitting there.

The honor pieces are some of the bigger upgrades of the season for me - I get away with using PvE pieces in some slots(neck/bracer) so switching to the PvP analogues now that they're the same or better ilvl is going to be a nice boost in durability.

 

• LodeRunner

Such ingratitude even after that clutch victory due to your ember stopping that mage from drinking.

edit- Are people planning on using those last stand badge trinket or staying with Bloodlust Brooch/Berserker's Call?

 

• Wodin

The one where it chased the druid across the arena was better, I think. Mutilate is a lot of fun to play, and I will desperately miss doing absurd damage in two global cooldowns, but AR/Prep is just a better spec right now.

 

Myrx

People like to ridicule AR/Prep rogues as being scrub friendly and whatnot all the time, but I find that there is no better spec for 2v2 with a mage partner. I think especially in 2.3.2 when mages get Icy Veins (which you can probably Cold Snap) that the AR->Prep->AR will compliment the Veins->CS->Veins very well.

I also find the build works very well in 5v5. I play on a 4 DPS team, and I haven't ever been the first or second target yet so I can even get away with wearing 95% PvE gear.

I have found in 2v2 once you hit a certain rating range the majority of the teams you face are Warlock + Healer or Warrior + Healer. Since arena is a Comp vs. Counter-Comp world, if you don't play a counter to one of those combos you are going to have a rough time. For example, anytime we play Warrior + Healer it is basically a free win.

How "scrub friendly" can AR/Prep be though? It isn't as though we can attack from 40 yards, heal ourselves, and tank without thinking or anything. You still have to very carefully select the abilities you use when attempting to lock down a druid that is trying to get away from you. Especially when his Warlock partner is just waiting to DCoil->Fear you off of his partner.

You can be AR/Prep all day long but if you don't know when to Shiv, Kick, Kidney, Vanish->CS, Trinket and all the other tiny things to keep yourself in melee range of your target than you're not going to be much better off than a 61 Sub rogue.

 

Tower

I'd rather pump out damage with a more offensive trinket selection and use my cooldowns defensively to avoid focus than wear the life-giving trinkets.

My Spriest 2v2 partner got one and I can honestly say it's won us a couple games, particularly when we play against another 2dps makeups.

 

Fenwick

Howdy all, just a few questions here.

First, I'm primarily a raider with fist/sword spec (have both MH fist and OH sword S2 weapons), so I won't be changing specs for pvp. I'm partnered with a resto shammy and we've mostly just been doing it for the "free" weapons, but this season we'd like to get more serious about it. Not serious as in we wanna be at the top, but doing what we can to get at least to the 1800 rating for new weapons and either get higher as we can or maintain it. So, here's my questions.

Gems. Reading through this thread, there seems to be a mixed sentiment on whether it should be agi/sta, ap/sta, or pure sta/ap/agi gems. After servers come up, I'll be purchasing S3 legs and S1 armor for the remaining slots (have s2 pvp boots and belt, but no arena armor whatsoever). I'm assuming a mix of agi/sta and agi gems are a decent idea? Also, is there an agreed upon meta?

Socket bonus. How important are these to get? Is something like 4 resilience really a big deal? It doesn't seem so, but I've read a few posts here that say always go for the bonus.

Thanks in advance.