I have "Full" PvP gear and a Renataki and I'd love an Ashtongue (and a Beserker's Call, though I haven't set foot in ZA yet ). It's totally amazing. But then so is the Shard Of Azzinoth too, slow daggers ftw, etc.
It's frustrating being in this position of no access to PvE gear, my Muti specs are ~1440 AP, 30.8% crit, but I just have to live with it!
Actually you can see all that with a quick click to the left...
I'm gemmed for Deadliness/AP atm too, which could maybe do with a tweak, but Muti is actually fairly insensitive to gemming since AP and Crit both benefit it strongly- that's what's good about it: strong non-crit DPE *&* big crits, extra CP, lethality, blah...
Ashtongue trinket rapes Renataki for Mutilate in every way and in every bracket no matter what. It is simply pure gold to own it.
I have access to both and I find myself rarely using Ashtongue. The increased damage coming from Renataki is well enough to make or break a alphastrike.
Perhaps with some sort of drain/outlast team or something.
Ashtongue is nice. But it's not as nice as Renataki.
As for the Shard. It's poop. Vengeful is better, Merciless is slightly worse. Too many stat points wasted on the proc, which is semi-useful at best.
While it seems that you need good gear for mutilate, and I agree High-End PvE gear helps a lot, it is still viable even with pure pvp gear. Don't worry about your ap and crit, it's not that important.
Remember we're not there for the damage, we're there for the wound poison and stuns. Which is why I prefer 4hit/4agi (or Pyrestone).
Last edited by Grunge : 01/03/08 at 12:16 AM.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
Anyone got any thoughts on how hard it is to get a renataki nowadays? Say with a decent 5-10man group in t5. I really really want it because of my love for muti, but it seems kinda .. bleeh .. hard? Timeconsuming and whatnot.
It'll just take 8 weeks, because you need 4 parts and the boss changes every two weeks. Or is it two resets thus 4 weeks? I can't remember. Check Thottbot !
Because of the number of resets, and the fact each boss drops 1.5 parts, on average, you could farm up 2 or 3 in the time depending on how many times you could get the group to blitz through. It's a "shame" the Rogue one is the only one left of any value.
Well, actually it's a shame that even the Rogue one has value- they either need a 70 version or to nerf it to uselessness as they have with every other old-world non-max-level trinket in this situation.
Well, actually it's a shame that even the Rogue one has value- they either need a 70 version or to nerf it to uselessness as they have with every other old-world non-max-level trinket in this situation.
Hush? I think we all know Blizzard is very aware rogues are still using the Renataki at 70, and I wouldn't bet on them ever giving us 60 energy on demand in arena ever.
Hush? I think we all know Blizzard is very aware rogues are still using the Renataki at 70, and I wouldn't bet on them ever giving us 60 energy on demand in arena ever.
I don't think he was calling for anyone to hush or even suggesting Blizzard was unaware of Renataki usage. Maybe 60 energy wouldn't happen, but maybe 40 energy on use and a passive property like resilience, AP, crit, etc.
I don't think he was calling for anyone to hush or even suggesting Blizzard was unaware of Renataki usage. Maybe 60 energy wouldn't happen, but maybe 40 energy on use and a passive property like resilience, AP, crit, etc.
Indeed.
If we assume Blizzard is happy that Renataki's on use is fair - and to be honest, 40e with a 3 minute cooldown is far from OP -- then they should be thinking that it ISNT fair that only a small proportion of Rogues have access to it.
At the very least there should be a way to get a direct equivalent at 70, and better would indeed be one with some passive AP or similar. Maybe even some hit to give non-Combat (realistically, only dagger) builds a nice bursty trinket that also covers their hit deficit...
The only thing I am wondering about is if 30/0/31 (hemo) beats 5x/x/x (muti) in utility/damage in arena's and overall pvp. I think 30/0/31 will be very strong, even tho its missing the mace stuns, but that it will be not as strong as mutilate in arena's. Anyone tested this?
I'm returning to wow pvp after 9 months completely cold turkey. I was/am mutilate spec'd and was, at the time, decently geared. Now I'm returning for some 2v2 and 3v3 with my friends/family and am horribly out geared. I was overjoyed to hear that Blizz had opened up s1 to buy for honor, but now I'm accumulating honor and not sure where to put my emphasis. I should be starting 2v2 and 3v3 in the next week. Here's my current gear/spec: The World of Warcraft Armory. I do have the old HWL shoulders and gloves (silence on deadly throw).
Should I be putting my honor to armor, vindicators armor, or weps? My plan is to do a hemo based build eventually (something less position sensitive). Thanks for any advice.
I can't remember all the stats of everything off by heart, but you should design your gear buying to:
First get your resi over 300 (+15 resi chest (which I also still use, might swap out for +6 all), yellow gems, etc.)
Then get your HP to over 10k (Solid stars everywhere, 30/40 stam leg enchant etc (actually I still use these))
Then depending on team makeup, push your resi to ~400 (S3+honor gear does this for free)
Then re-gem for AP/Crit/Agi depending on spec to keep your resi ~400 and HP over 10k.
Get the best weapons you can - I'd save up all your arena points for the S2 weapons if you can? Weapons make a big difference for a Rogue...
I'm at 10.9k HP and 409 resi with dps gems in every slot, pretty much. I'd probably wear more DPS gear, but my DPS stuff is T4 with a few pieces of T5, so it's a big ilevel step down from full S3, even if it is more offensively statted...
Haha, the sustained damage isn't so bad. It just has absolutely no burst
so basically it sucks when you need to put some extra pressure on a healer or in any situation where you need some burst :| is mutilate usefull in 2v2 and 3v3? All the people who played alot muti say its more usefull in 5v5
I can't remember all the stats of everything off by heart, but you should design your gear buying to:
First get your resi over 300 (+15 resi chest (which I also still use, might swap out for +6 all), yellow gems, etc.)
Then get your HP to over 10k (Solid stars everywhere, 30/40 stam leg enchant etc (actually I still use these))
Then depending on team makeup, push your resi to ~400 (S3+honor gear does this for free)
Then re-gem for AP/Crit/Agi depending on spec to keep your resi ~400 and HP over 10k.
Get the best weapons you can - I'd save up all your arena points for the S2 weapons if you can? Weapons make a big difference for a Rogue...
I'm at 10.9k HP and 409 resi with dps gems in every slot, pretty much. I'd probably wear more DPS gear, but my DPS stuff is T4 with a few pieces of T5, so it's a big ilevel step down from full S3, even if it is more offensively statted...
how much ap and crit do you have with 409 res and 10.9k hp? just wondering.
From my exp playing a rogue, every thing matters mostly weps As i see it. Ive been a master in arena with mutilate The only thing i can say is 2 save up for the main hand arena wep and then the offhand. Then you probobly wont have any hp or resi, then you need 2 skill up a bit go on people that are alrdy hiting some 1 then they wont get a chanse 2 dps you, couse then you've alrdy gotten em down if its a warrior or another high hp class go and do some dmg and when he turns for you use vanhis. and then strat dpsing agien, Never lost when ive used that tatic.
About 1440 and 30.8% crit, and a few hundred armor pen from the S3 bits...
That's 3 piece S3, 2 piece S2 (head/shoulders), full S3 honor gear + honor gems and a couple of heroic epic gems (there are no BT gems available on my server, and I'm not a JCer or Enchanter, sadly). I'm currently using the cheapass 20ap/runspeed meta from when I was HARP, will switch to 5% anti snare one when I get S3 daggers for Muti (to 'confirm' my choice !).
Another point of discussion: 41-20-0 vs. 48+X-0+X-5+X
Lately I see lots of very high rated rogues returning to mutilate, but not the old 41-20, but rather a poison intense build with deadly/wound and the dispel protection. While 41-20 offers a lot more sustained damage, the poisons seems to favor fast pressuring, especially, when playing with Renataki, because the combination of KS/CB/MT/MT/Evenom hits like a truck with full poisons. And poisons can't really be removed efficiently.
At the moment I consider a variant with improved Slice&Dice for an even better poison application. It looks for me like a way to work around the need for strong PVE gear and still have an reasonable burst and an ok sustained damage. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Last edited by Hildegard : 01/04/08 at 10:55 AM.
Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde
He said he was using it from when he was HARP, which doesn't include fleet footed. I have the same gem in my head, and am waiting for the patch to respec and will change my meta then.
One question for Tikii regarding the meta socket: Why do you take the 20AP/movement speed meta socket eventough you already have fleet footed ?
Wouldn't the 12ag/3% Crit damage be much better ?
And another point of discussion: 41-20-0 vs. 48+X-0+X-5+X
Lately I see lots of very high rated rogues returning to mutilate, but not the old 41-20, but rather a poison intense build with deadly/wound and the dispel protection. While 41-20 offers a lot more sustained damage, the poisons seems to favor fast pressuring, especially, when playing with Renataki, because the combination of KS/CB/MT/MT/Evenom hits like a truck with full poisons. And poisons can't really be removed efficiently.
At the moment I consider a variant with improved Slice&Dice for an even better poison application. It looks for me like a way to work around the need for strong PVE gear and still have an reasonable burst and an ok sustained damage. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
come on, the 41-20 vs 5x-x-x is a bit old, its already clear that 5x-x-x favours the pve muti build, at least, to me.
Basically: in 5s, 48+ can work (though you should take master p > 2/5 imp), but in 2s or any other time you dont have a defensive dispeller / BoF - I have a Druid - imp sprint is more valuable. Also, lots of 2s comes down to mana wars- higher overall sustained is very valuable then. Being able to keep full SnD/Expose up is very nice.
Even in 5s, I'm a bit loath to spend 10+ talents just on poisons.
And does anyone ever use Envenom? Unless you were going to *definitely* kill them, far better to keep the 5 stack on them. I currently don't even have Envenom on my bars...
The whole deadly/wound thing is a very specialised thing anyway, though the possibilities of pure deadly throw snaring are actually very interesting- e.g. Mind Numb / Wound for casters anyone?
I usually play on 3v3 and I'm currently combat mutilate (Armory link). I play with a priest and another dps (lock, mage or a warrior depending on who's online on weekends). I don't really know what to do with gemming&enchanting: I've tried pure +ap gems, then agi on red socket and crit on yellow and now I've chosen to test [Shifting Nightseye] on red slots, [Jagged Talasite] on yellow ones and [Nethercleft Leg Armor] on the next S3 legs. Has anyone tried this gems setup?
Since lately I'm playing more with the warlock I'm also considering to drop Imp Kidney Shot 1/3 and one point in Lethality to take 2/2 Master Poisoner and in the Combat tree to drop Endurance 2/2 and Imp SnD to take 3/5 Deflection to further improve my survavibilty against warriors and rogues (I think that about 90% in my crappy BG are HARP specced).
What do you think about these changes? Do you have opinions, or criticism, to share?
so basically it sucks when you need to put some extra pressure on a healer or in any situation where you need some burst :| is mutilate usefull in 2v2 and 3v3? All the people who played alot muti say its more usefull in 5v5
I think the burst for Sstep is in targets below 35% health, if you can do that. But yeah, no burst-on-demand. Exceptional mobility, however. I'm still hoping someone goes to the PTR and tests out its viability for arenas, because it seems that all the thoughts on it are just formed from previous opinions on the spec/ability, and it has changed a lot in recent months.
01/02/08, 7:14 PM
). It's totally amazing. But then so is the Shard Of Azzinoth too, slow daggers ftw, etc.
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