I think the burst for Sstep is in targets below 35% health, if you can do that. But yeah, no burst-on-demand. Exceptional mobility, however. I'm still hoping someone goes to the PTR and tests out its viability for arenas, because it seems that all the thoughts on it are just formed from previous opinions on the spec/ability, and it has changed a lot in recent months.
That's the problem with ShStep. There's absolutely 0 on demand burst.
Someone calls out over vent that their healer is silenced or cc'd, absolutely nothing you can do about it. This, to me, is why ShStep will be nothing but a dueling/BG spec in my eyes. It's just too reliant on rather rare scenarios for burst (Master of Subtlety>Opening out of stealth and Dirty Deeds>Somehow getting them to 35%).
As far as regarding 'new' Mut specs, I've come up with hopefully not too much of a compromise. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I decided on this build mostly because I'm going to be switching to a Rogue/Druid/FMage comp tonight and I'd really like Imp Sprint on demand, right when I need it. At the same time, with two stealth classes running around, I don't want to be the one getting sapped out of stealth and losing the opener (Hence the MoD/Dirty Tricks). Although you may have noticed I didn't spend all of my talent points. I can't decide if I want it in Imp Poisons, Imp SnD or Opportunity to make up for some damage lost because I left out DW spec.
That's the problem with ShStep. There's absolutely 0 on demand burst.
What about a x/0/4x build that has more burst potential? Ignore the siren's call of a massive ambush, and instead work a weaponswap backstab into a normal shadowstep/hemo build. Something like: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
From the more standard 20/0/41 you lose poison talents, Elusiveness, and 3 points of Camo, but your shadowstep backstab is ranged burst. Sure, it's no CB/Mutilate, but you have much better mobility and defenses.
With the proper macros or skill, you can backstab with after shadowstep but maintain your mace/sword for hemo without losing a global cooldown [see earlier posts on weaponswapping macro experiments].
This build has decent combo point generation, energy, mobility, and a small amount of burst. It's not as good as 2.3 HARP, and it's certainly more complicated to play.
At the same time, with two stealth classes running around, I don't want to be the one getting sapped out of stealth and losing the opener (Hence the MoD/Dirty Tricks).
I think there will be few rogues with MOD and higher ratings. Maybe 11-43-7 (but I think 16-45-0 is stronger overall)gets popular but Shadowstep-Specs will decline within the first two weeks. The problem will be the warrior charging because they see us trough half the arena. Without Opportunity and DW-Spec you will lack burst and sustained damage and that is what Mutilate is about.
I just don't see any build bringing in a threat to others without Coldblood Mutilate (and not Coldblood Eviscerate or Coldblood Ambush) or Adrenalinrush. Shadowstep can perhabs work in 5vs5 when it's used as a ranged finisher on targets below 35%.
I still don't really understand the HARP nerf. Rogues do not dominate the arena right now. The spec is strong, but it's not way overpowered. With a debuff like Hypothermia for Adrenalinrush things could have been solved easily. Ok I'm crying here, but I think 2.4 will be bufftime for rogues again.
Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde
Another point of discussion: 41-20-0 vs. 48+X-0+X-5+X
Lately I see lots of very high rated rogues returning to mutilate, but not the old 41-20, but rather a poison intense build with deadly/wound and the dispel protection. While 41-20 offers a lot more sustained damage, the poisons seems to favor fast pressuring, especially, when playing with Renataki, because the combination of KS/CB/MT/MT/Evenom hits like a truck with full poisons. And poisons can't really be removed efficiently.
At the moment I consider a variant with improved Slice&Dice for an even better poison application. It looks for me like a way to work around the need for strong PVE gear and still have an reasonable burst and an ok sustained damage. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Without having DW spec, I think it's wastefull to spend your cp on SnD (expose armor maybe?), especially with imp poisons and the nature of mutilate (2 hits). I do see your logic though, in chosing SnD, since you plan on using envenom.. but if you truly want to use envenom, you might as well just shiv the poisons on. Either way, I think the whole envonem deal makes switching targets that much harder, and is only applicable in very specific match ups (2s => war/druid).
Originally Posted by Fennesz
As far as regarding 'new' Mut specs, I've come up with hopefully not too much of a compromise. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I decided on this build mostly because I'm going to be switching to a Rogue/Druid/FMage comp tonight and I'd really like Imp Sprint on demand, right when I need it. At the same time, with two stealth classes running around, I don't want to be the one getting sapped out of stealth and losing the opener (Hence the MoD/Dirty Tricks). Although you may have noticed I didn't spend all of my talent points. I can't decide if I want it in Imp Poisons, Imp SnD or Opportunity to make up for some damage lost because I left out DW spec.
Hehe, I run druid, rogue(muti), FMage (1800s) atm. I do like the proposed build, however, I think you really need to grab opportunity over MoD, because without DW or Opp your mutis are going to be weak. Here is the variation <I> would use: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Since I don't plan on using SnD as often (no imp snd) I will use EA instead. I also grabbed riposte with that "extra" talent point you had instead of percision, because hit doesn't matter as much to me, I just need 5% for specials.
Hehe, I run druid, rogue(muti), FMage (1800s) atm. I do like the proposed build, however, I think you really need to grab opportunity over MoD, because without DW or Opp your mutis are going to be weak. Here is the variation <I> would use: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Since I don't plan on using SnD as often (no imp snd) I will use EA instead. I also grabbed riposte with that "extra" talent point you had instead of percision, because hit doesn't matter as much to me, I just need 5% for specials.
The only thing that worries me about that build is missing a lot due to no Precision and either getting sapped in stealth or simply dotted up from a distance due to the plethora of SL/SL Warlocks running around with Paranoia constantly.
I think a good compromise (If I was to go this route, which I probably will) would behttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebovroidVohbV0bZIM.
I still have Precision, moderate MoD and moderate Opportunity to hopefully make up for the lack of DW spec. I'm a Night Elf as well so my bonus to stealth coupled with maybe substituting my old PvP cloak with +Stealth enchant on it, should level out to more or less 5/5 MoD (I can't remember exactly how much stealth/stealth levels these add). I want to say NE Improved Stealth adds stealth just slightly better than 1 point in MoD, and I assume the Stealth cloak enchant adds stealth slightly less than 1 point in MoD.
Luckily, I still need 150 points until I can afford my S3 MH, so I'll have a few more days to work out what build would be best for me. But for now I think I'd rather stay heavy on the MoD side, simply because if I get knocked out of stealth before I can get the sap off, Dirty Tricks essentially becomes useless.
The only thing that worries me about that build is missing a lot due to no Precision and either getting sapped in stealth or simply dotted up from a distance due to the plethora of SL/SL Warlocks running around with Paranoia constantly.
I think a good compromise (If I was to go this route, which I probably will) would behttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebovroidVohbV0bZIM.
I still have Precision, moderate MoD and moderate Opportunity to hopefully make up for the lack of DW spec. I'm a Night Elf as well so my bonus to stealth coupled with maybe substituting my old PvP cloak with +Stealth enchant on it, should level out to more or less 5/5 MoD (I can't remember exactly how much stealth/stealth levels these add). I want to say NE Improved Stealth adds stealth just slightly better than 1 point in MoD, and I assume the Stealth cloak enchant adds stealth slightly less than 1 point in MoD.
Luckily, I still need 150 points until I can afford my S3 MH, so I'll have a few more days to work out what build would be best for me. But for now I think I'd rather stay heavy on the MoD side, simply because if I get knocked out of stealth before I can get the sap off, Dirty Tricks essentially becomes useless.
Definelty try it out, and post some results
I know you really want to get your opener, but how do you think most 41/20 (more popular muti spec) rogues manage? I'll admit that I do loose an opener sometimes, but in many fights you can just coordinate your opener with the druid-> cyclone, and mage attacking, this way you get a chance to land a sap/cs w/o being noticed. Another note i want to make is: Yes, openers in 3s do matter, but unless you are running into a 3dps team.. you should be able to recover just fine.
Also consider that even with 5MoD, human rogues will still catch you, and any other rogues with lock team mate, will have a greater chance of catching you. As far as dirty tricks, it's still very usefull, even when you don't get an opener sap. Having a longer range blind that costs less energy is very very nice(trust me, you will notice this right away). And doing a blind -> vanish -> sap benefits from dirty tricks.
The only thing that worries me about that build is missing a lot due to no Precision and either getting sapped in stealth or simply dotted up from a distance due to the plethora of SL/SL Warlocks running around with Paranoia constantly.
I think a good compromise (If I was to go this route, which I probably will) would behttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebovroidVohbV0bZIM.
I still have Precision, moderate MoD and moderate Opportunity to hopefully make up for the lack of DW spec. I'm a Night Elf as well so my bonus to stealth coupled with maybe substituting my old PvP cloak with +Stealth enchant on it, should level out to more or less 5/5 MoD (I can't remember exactly how much stealth/stealth levels these add). I want to say NE Improved Stealth adds stealth just slightly better than 1 point in MoD, and I assume the Stealth cloak enchant adds stealth slightly less than 1 point in MoD.
Luckily, I still need 150 points until I can afford my S3 MH, so I'll have a few more days to work out what build would be best for me. But for now I think I'd rather stay heavy on the MoD side, simply because if I get knocked out of stealth before I can get the sap off, Dirty Tricks essentially becomes useless.
MoD: 3 points of increased stealth per talent point (15 max)
Nightelf passive: 5 points of increased stealth
Enchant: 5
Paranoia:-30
Engineering goggles:-18 (cats eye) -5 (level 70 epic goggles)
Perception:-50
Vanish Super mode: 270
edit: The way I remember it 5 points = 1 level for pve's detection sake.
I know you really want to get your opener, but how do you think most 41/20 (more popular muti spec) rogues manage? I'll admit that I do loose an opener sometimes, but in many fights you can just coordinate your opener with the druid-> cyclone, and mage attacking, this way you get a chance to land a sap/cs w/o being noticed. Another note i want to make is: Yes, openers in 3s do matter, but unless you are running into a 3dps team.. you should be able to recover just fine.
Also consider that even with 5MoD, human rogues will still catch you, and any other rogues with lock team mate, will have a greater chance of catching you. As far as dirty tricks, it's still very usefull, even when you don't get an opener sap. Having a longer range blind that costs less energy is very very nice(trust me, you will notice this right away). And doing a blind -> vanish -> sap benefits from dirty tricks.
Yeah I know Dirty Tricks isn't useless, I just enjoy embellishing things so it makes my argument look more solid. Haha, yeah I'm stupid. I've definitely noticed it's usefulness via my Blind Focus macro. It's annoying having to run away from my target to pop a Blind off on my focus.
An yeah I know having my team conform to me could definitely do the trick. It's just we've all played together be it in 2s and/or premades, just never in 3s. We know the comp fairly well, I just don't want to lose the opener due to absolutely abysmal stealth. I know it doesn't make or break games, but I'd much rather have that CS on a Warlock or that Garrote on a Warrior. And as far as Humans still finding me, I know. It's even pushed me enough to start rolling a Human Rogue 'alt' that I can swap in when WotLK hits.
MoD: 3 points of increased stealth per talent point (15 max)
Nightelf passive: 5 points of increased stealth
Enchant: 5
Paranoia:-30
Engineering goggles:-18 (cats eye) -5 (level 70 epic goggles)
Perception:-50
Vanish Super mode: 270
edit: The way I remember it 5 points = 1 level for pve's detection sake.
Thanks for the stealth level info too. I vaguely remembered the MoD levels, although I had no idea Paranoia was a near Perception. Makes me even more pissed off that Warlocks feel that their pets are 'useless' and that Blizz is considering buffing them come 2.4.
Anyway, if I do decide to go 41/13/7 I'll detail how it went. Although if I find my teammates are entering in combat way faster than I'm used to, I'll probably just revert classic old Mut/Combat.
Another point of discussion: 41-20-0 vs. 48+X-0+X-5+X
Lately I see lots of very high rated rogues returning to mutilate, but not the old 41-20, but rather a poison intense build with deadly/wound and the dispel protection. While 41-20 offers a lot more sustained damage, the poisons seems to favor fast pressuring, especially, when playing with Renataki, because the combination of KS/CB/MT/MT/Evenom hits like a truck with full poisons. And poisons can't really be removed efficiently.
At the moment I consider a variant with improved Slice&Dice for an even better poison application. It looks for me like a way to work around the need for strong PVE gear and still have an reasonable burst and an ok sustained damage. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Envenom is a big no-no. If you get a full deadly stack up it's much more useful as a abolish protection than for the extra damage you might get from envenom. I'd also either drop Imp SA or Snd since with the amount of shivs I do, I don't really find myself having time to maintain SA as well. Might be a playstyle issue. I'd much rather get Dirty Tricks (Although it's a non-issue for 2's), since I find that blowing sprint and getting a sap off on a healer in 5's and 3's is very nice.
Originally Posted by Tiiki
Gah, just lost a massive post!
Basically: in 5s, 48+ can work (though you should take master p > 2/5 imp), but in 2s or any other time you dont have a defensive dispeller / BoF - I have a Druid - imp sprint is more valuable. Also, lots of 2s comes down to mana wars- higher overall sustained is very valuable then. Being able to keep full SnD/Expose up is very nice.
Even in 5s, I'm a bit loath to spend 10+ talents just on poisons.
And does anyone ever use Envenom? Unless you were going to *definitely* kill them, far better to keep the 5 stack on them. I currently don't even have Envenom on my bars...
The whole deadly/wound thing is a very specialized thing anyway, though the possibilities of pure deadly throw snaring are actually very interesting- e.g. Mind Numb / Wound for casters anyone?
I disagree about imp sprint. It's very nice, but it's not game-breaking. I'd take it over Imp. SnD though (then again my 2v2 choice is 41/0/20).
In 5v5, using 5x/x/x with poison talents is the way to go for mutilate. The extra "sustained" damage doesn't merit taking the chance that your poisons don't stick in my opinion.
Originally Posted by berzerked
Without having DW spec, I think it's wastefull to spend your cp on SnD (expose armor maybe?), especially with imp poisons and the nature of mutilate (2 hits). I do see your logic though, in chosing SnD, since you plan on using envenom.. but if you truly want to use envenom, you might as well just shiv the poisons on. Either way, I think the whole envonem deal makes switching targets that much harder, and is only applicable in very specific match ups (2s => war/druid).
I'm not so sure, SnD is one of our best finishers, and I don't really have points for Imp. SA in my 2v2 build. Even talented, SA isn't that much of a damage increase vs Warriors than the extra chance for poisons snd gives. (More Wound uptime = Bigger chance winning the mana-war).
Originally Posted by berzerked
Hehe, I run druid, rogue(muti), FMage (1800s) atm. I do like the proposed build, however, I think you really need to grab opportunity over MoD, because without DW or Opp your mutis are going to be weak. Here is the variation <I> would use: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Since I don't plan on using SnD as often (no imp snd) I will use EA instead. I also grabbed riposte with that "extra" talent point you had instead of percision, because hit doesn't matter as much to me, I just need 5% for specials.
I'm a bit skeptical about Riposte in Mutilate builds, those points could be spent much better. Also if you're already going 13 into Combat, there's no reason why to take DT and Opportunity over DW spec.
Imp. KS would be very nice for your Mages Shatter combo. (ala 44/0/17). Going Full MoD with Initative and Elusiveness. 1.5min Blind is very very nice.
Although I prefer my RMP as 41/20 since I can splash my gear with PvE items and the damage from Combat goes a long way to help burst someone down.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
I just switched my Rogue to Mutilate 44/12/5 from 0/31/30 to test it out in 2s with a Shadow Priest.
I'm horrible at it. It feels to me like the Fleet Footed speed increase is almost unnoticeable since everyone has runspeed enchants. Positional specs make me cry, and I am missing lots of openers due to Sap's tiny range and no more MoD. I just feel gimped and like a hindrance in arenas. Blind costs 30 energy and has a crappy range. It goes without saying that I'm not doing things right, but Mutilate doesn't even feel like that much damage even if I save up 120 energy. If I can't make this work right I'm probably just going to end up going heavy Combat in 2.3.2.
Practise more, seriously. It ALWAYS feels like that at first (to me, too). It's a breath of fresh air later, since it's so much less button mashy...
Even go and grind mobs for a while to get a feel for the rhythm.
Why 12/5? I still think it's a big waste of the points in precision to not pair them with DW spec- DW spec is 95% as much damage on Mutilate too, anyway.
You'll get used to Blind, but you're right about Sap- it's close to unusable against lock teams/heightened senses rogues/humans etc. It's the range, much more than the lack of MoD.
The speed increase I definitely do notice, like I noticed it way back at 60 when I had minor speed and other people didn't...
After looking at rogues of higher ranking and searching thru this forum i cant seem to find a clear answer about gemming, granted its obviously spec related.
I'm currently HARP and when 2.3.2 comes out ill probably go 11/43/7 or 11/50/0
With either of thoses specs, what would you recommend in terms of gemming ?
Currently using S1 helm/shoulders, T4 pants and S3 gloves/chest, all honor vindicator gear, S1 MH Mace, S2 OH Mace
Why 12/5? I still think it's a big waste of the points in precision to not pair them with DW spec- DW spec is 95% as much damage on Mutilate too, anyway.
Well there's not a whole lot of hit on arena stuff and I have to get to Imp Sprint somehow. 20% bonus damage on Mutilate just seemed better from a jousty PvP standpoint than bringing my offhand's weapon from 50% damage to 75% damage. Opportunity increases both off and mainhand mutilate damage
The speed increase I definitely do notice, like I noticed it way back at 60 when I had minor speed and other people didn't...
Well of course it's going to be a huge difference vs someone who has no runspeed enchant at all. Unfortunately everyone has runspeed enchants, and it's just barely faster than that person. Fleet Footed feels like double runspeed enchant. It's barely noticeable against people who have runspeed, and it's significant vs those without. Most people, especially those who love to kite, will be sporting a speed enchant or meta.
edit- I may respec and shuffle my Assassination tree around to include more poisons and get rid of Imp Evisc and maybe Imp Kidney Shot.
As I understand (check the muti class mechanics thread), Opportunity's absolute damage increase for Mutilate (the yellow attack, I mean) only, isn't hugely more than DW spec's effect on it. Add in the tons of extra white damage (and Arena ISNT jousty unless you're CC'd), and, importantly, the fact it adds 50% to Shiv's damage (and you'll be Shivving a *lot*), I think opportunity is pretty terrible...
On the runspeed thing- I mean I always noticed Nothing users vs. me with Minor Speed at 60, and I can notice Minor Speed users vs. me with Fleet Footed at 70 too. When neither of you is snared and they run away from you, being able to catch up is huge
Yeah, I've never been convinced about Imp Evis. I think it's a juggle between Vile / Imp EA for a 41pt Muti spec's extras, really...
I have been mainly a PVE rogue since WOW's release and PVP'd just for fun. However, my life is getting busier and the amount of time I have to devout to raiding is diminishing, so I am going to focus more on Arenas since we can accomplish much in relatively little time vs raiding.
I have always Arena'd as swords due to my main focus having been PVE and run on a 3v3 3 dps team (hunter, lock, me). In S2 I ran as combat swords and we were low 1900s, in S3 I am swords HARP and we just broke 1850 so it's time to get new S3 weapons. Now that I am no longer able to focus on PVE, swords are not the best choice so I was debating between getting Maces vs Daggers. With 2.32 coming soon, I'm not sure if I would prefer Combat Mace or Mutilate.
Is there a consensus on what the favored weapon choice will be when 2.32 kills the sword or mace HARP spec?
It's a tough choice now that I have the rating and points to grab my choice of S3 weapons.
It depends on a lot of things. That there is no consensus is exactly the problem: multiple 'good' specs vs. one 'great' one.
My 5v5 broke 1850 today and I caved and bought the Shanker. I just hope that choice holds up through 2.3.2 and then 2.4...
[and the fact the shanker looks win and the mace looks awful DID play a small part!]
I'd say Maces are easier to play, but Mutilate offers bigger gains if you can exploit it's benefits to the fullest.
On another note, I think I'm going to pick up a Vengeful Shiv over Gloves, since when we're focusing druids I find a 38energy shiv to be pricey. I already have 2 merciless ones for deadly/wound (and Merciless Shanker for Mindnumb).
At least I'll burn through those stacks of poisons faster than usual.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
The problem with having lots of similar Season weapons is the icons are the same, so you cant tell which one you're OHing by looking at the icon in your buff bar...
For this reason, atm, I still use Malchazeen as my MN shivver. I guess once I get the Mutilator (S3 OH) I can swap between that / S2 and Malchazeen. I don't have a Wound OH ready at the moment as I don't have enough icons to go around!
I don't think the difference of 4e is worth stressing about though (especially as it does less damage anyway)...
The problem with having lots of similar Season weapons is the icons are the same, so you cant tell which one you're OHing by looking at the icon in your buff bar...
For this reason, atm, I still use Malchazeen as my MN shivver. I guess once I get the Mutilator (S3 OH) I can swap between that / S2 and Malchazeen. I don't have a Wound OH ready at the moment as I don't have enough icons to go around!
I don't think the difference of 4e is worth stressing about though (especially as it does less damage anyway)...
Same icon isn't really an issue, I'm using EBB and have different offhands bound to different keys.
It's quite noticeable when you're spamming shiv on druids. ^^
I'm not doing that bad myself ;P
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
How do you kill a druid on priest/rogue? They seem to always be getting away from me.. when would be the ideal time to stun.. blind and do the finisher.. I'm HARP.. not mut =[
Same icon isn't really an issue, I'm using EBB and have different offhands bound to different keys.
It's quite noticeable when you're spamming shiv on druids. ^^
I'm not doing that bad myself ;P
Ugh, I hate Elk! I currently have one bind to swap OH, repeat to swap back. I was planning on binding a second so I use two keys between 3 OHs to alternate. Maybe your way is better...
What are you spamming shiv on druids? Wound? Surely they get away?
And yes, gratz on your ratings, impressive considering rogue representation- my excuses are that I don't play anywhere near enough, I'm a Troll, I have T4 only PvE gear and my battlegroup is really small :P
Your lineup is quite interesting too (Rogue/Hunter/Priest/Druid/Mage)? How do you play it?
Lock someone in LOS and let the mage/hunter explode them?
In 5s do you ever get on Warriors? I notice you dont have Imp EA and do have Imp SS... I find a 3k expose on cloth (which is easy to maintain) to be pretty superb... Our primary target is always mages, then locks, usually.
In 5s do you ever get on Warriors? I notice you dont have Imp EA and do have Imp SS... I find a 3k expose on cloth (which is easy to maintain) to be pretty superb... Our primary target is always mages, then locks, usually.
Mages and warlocks only have about 2500 armor in full S3/Vindicator gear so Imp. EA is overkill if you have atleast some passive ArP from gear. Priests with similar gear and Inner Fire have somewhere around 4000 armor but it is really situational when Imp. EA truly helps you. It is somehow good against leather, anything with mail roam with ~7000 armor so it doesn't become that significant then.
If you go 5x/0/x spec it's most likely worth to take Imp. EA over other talents even that it is quite situational and most likely wont help against mages or warlocks. I prefer poison talents over Imp. EA if running 41/20/0 or 43/0/18.
Hmm, you make good points. I thought most Locks/Mages were at around 3.5k AC? I suppose Demon Armor and the like always get purged anyway, too.
We do also kill Shaman and Hunters quite a lot- I wonder how valuable the extra 1k AC pen is then? You're probably right though, I think I will switch to 5/5 Vile.
[Any thoughts on 5/5 Vile vs. 3/5 Vile + 2/5 Master P?]
Hmm, you make good points. I thought most Locks/Mages were at around 3.5k AC? I suppose Demon Armor and the like always get purged anyway, too.
We do also kill Shaman and Hunters quite a lot- I wonder how valuable the extra 1k AC pen is then? You're probably right though, I think I will switch to 5/5 Vile.
[Any thoughts on 5/5 Vile vs. 3/5 Vile + 2/5 Master P?]
I switched to 4/5 VP and 1/2 MP and it's been great so far. I just switched from HARP and it already feels a lot better. I really won't miss hemo.
Hmm, you make good points. I thought most Locks/Mages were at around 3.5k AC? I suppose Demon Armor and the like always get purged anyway, too.
We do also kill Shaman and Hunters quite a lot- I wonder how valuable the extra 1k AC pen is then? You're probably right though, I think I will switch to 5/5 Vile.
[Any thoughts on 5/5 Vile vs. 3/5 Vile + 2/5 Master P?]
Bah I wish :P A lot of mages use molten armour anyway, and warlocks nearly always use fel armour.
I've just seen the final 2.3.2 patch notes and there's no mention of there being a combo point added by ShS anymore... This is a disappointing change for me personally, I know a lot has been made of the 'yeah but what if I'm shadowstepping to escape and I lose my combo points of my current target' - but let's be honest how often is that really going to be an issue?
No serious arena players will be speccing it anyway, which leaves duelers and BGers. Compare the number of times you can use the combo point on your target in these situations to how many time ShS will be used to escape (and the lost CPs are actually an issue) and its clearly more useful with the combo point.
Even then it's really not hard to dump into a SnD, or even expose or rupture before ShSing away.
01/04/08, 4:17 PM
Similar Threads
