Considering that you can use a lot more pve gear with ShS the damage output will be probably comparable to combat. (Not to mention the joy of Premed->CS->EA on warrior from the start).
However the possibility of killing the druid is very much a option as ShS, while as Mutilate (if the warrior is good) it's impossible.
Thats why I mostly switched away from Mutilate. So you think with ShS I have better time pressuring Warrior + Druid teams than with Sword Combat? Wonder how much PvE gear you can switch with ShS?
Warlock in my guild has asked me to play 2s with him a few times. I'm currently on a 2s team with a Shadow Priest. We haven't been playing lately on 2s since my Shadow Priest partner has become rather fed up with queue times when we are both available to play.
Is there anything good about a Warlock/Rogue combo? I can't say that I've ever faced one, so I'm guessing there is a reason for that.
lock/rogue was a top combo for sure in s2. not sure why it declined in popularity, it's better than spriest/rog for all but a few specific matchups. Neilyo always included his 2s with Gumbot in his videos, might wanna check that for some inspiration.
Thats why I mostly switched away from Mutilate. So you think with ShS I have better time pressuring Warrior + Druid teams than with Sword Combat? Wonder how much PvE gear you can switch with ShS?
Playing with a good healer? I'd say low 200's (I personally use 307 as mutilate but I would swap in t6 pants for 2 piece and Signet of Primal Wrath, which would leave me at 245). Then again if they fix cheat death.
Originally Posted by sargsui
lock/rogue was a top combo for sure in s2. not sure why it declined in popularity, it's better than spriest/rog for all but a few specific matchups. Neilyo always included his 2s with Gumbot in his videos, might wanna check that for some inspiration.
The problem I see is Healing -> Spelldamage, allowing Rogue/Disc Priest succeed against Warrior/x teams. Numerous Priest buffs and changes only helped with it.
It's pretty much true for most 2dps teams, outlasting isn't really a option you need to kill the target within the CC time limit.
Any Healer/x teams just needs to outlast/survive the 2dps and they win. Against other Healer/x teams it's upto comp and "skills".
Why impose handicaps on yourself?
That said, breaking 2k as rogue/lock is not that hard. (I'd say 40-10, 45-12 or so w/l)
With Priest I'm consistently getting 40-3, 40-1, 40-0.
Last edited by Grunge : 01/29/08 at 7:00 PM.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
I have a problem with my 3v3 team. Setup is ShSrogue/lock/discpriest.
Our lock gets nuked most of the time, and when it happens, he dies real fast/our priest spends all his mana to keep him up.
Versus warriors and rogues, he's dead meat.
Could you tell me what to do? Here are some points:
1) His gear. The World of Warcraft Armory
It's bad, i know. I told him to get the Battlemaster's trinket, enchant fully defensively, and replace 2 set pieces with the Destruction set for double +35 res bonus. Will that be enough?
2) Could it be our priest? Here is his gear The World of Warcraft Armory
He can keep us alive, but when it comes to other things.. .Dont know. He seldom charges in to cast a Psychic Scream. He rarely has time for Manaburns (this could be due to our lock dieing too fast). And no matter how fast i inform him, he doesnt dispell fear/poly/roots ect.
3) Is it me? I have even tried to stay on rogues/warriors to keep them from the lock, but it's kind of pointless, with rogues double evasion espetialy.
What could it be? Should I try to keep rogues off him or is it just his bad gear? Is it just the gameplay of 3v3 arena, and it's combo-beats-combo style?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
Last edited by Ashyl-DB : 01/29/08 at 7:07 PM.
Reason: corrections/specifications
I have a problem with my 3v3 team. Setup is ShSrogue/lock/discpriest.
Our lock gets nuked most of the time, and when it happens, he dies real fast/our priest spends all his mana to keep him up.
The classes that kill him the fastest are Warriors, and Rogues.
My question is, could you tell me what to do? Here are some points:
1) His gear. http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...erhood&n=Xyzzy
It's bad, i know. I told him to get the Battlemaster's trinket, enchant fully defensively, and replace 2 set pieces with the Destruction set for double +35 res bonus. Will that be enough?
2) Could it be our priest? Here is his gear The World of Warcraft Armory
He can keep us alive, but when it comes to other things.. .Dont know. He seldom charges in to cast a Psychic Scream. He rarely has time for Manaburns (this could be due to our lock dieing too fast).
3) Is it me? I have even tried to stay on rogues/warriors to keep them from the lock, but it's kind of pointless, with rogues double evasion espetialy.
What could it be? Should I try to keep rogues off him or is it just his bad gear?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
It's just not that great of a setup.
While RWP was a popular (and quite good setup, gladiator material) in season 1, it was phased out with warlock nerfs mostly. RWP just has too many weaknesses.
As for going for rogues...well depends on what kind of setup it is. RMP you should stick to the mage as his nukes hurt the most and he won't be able to poly with MN and you on him. Warrior+2 heal teams are also very hard since the warrior can lock out the warlocks fears.
And Warlock really needs a proper mainhand.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
I have a problem with my 3v3 team. Setup is ShSrogue/lock/discpriest.
Our lock gets nuked most of the time, and when it happens, he dies real fast/our priest spends all his mana to keep him up.
The classes that kill him the fastest are Warriors, and Rogues.
My question is, could you tell me what to do? Here are some points:
1) His gear. The World of Warcraft Armory
It's bad, i know. I told him to get the Battlemaster's trinket, enchant fully defensively, and replace 2 set pieces with the Destruction set for double +35 res bonus. Will that be enough?
2) Could it be our priest? Here is his gear The World of Warcraft Armory
He can keep us alive, but when it comes to other things.. .Dont know. He seldom charges in to cast a Psychic Scream. He rarely has time for Manaburns (this could be due to our lock dieing too fast).
3) Is it me? I have even tried to stay on rogues/warriors to keep them from the lock, but it's kind of pointless, with rogues double evasion espetialy.
What could it be? Should I try to keep rogues off him or is it just his bad gear?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
From experience I've had more success as combat mace running this set up. AR gives me the burst I need to make up for the warlocks lack of burst damage. Mace stuns are extremely overpowered and i've seen it single handedly win me some games keeping healers stun locked. Play style also factors in. The way my team plays this set up is similar to a tri-dps team. We use cd's early to peel dps off our dps'ers and nuke their healer hard with everyone using their cd's to go for an early kill. Play very aggressively. Priest cannot play the mana game, they will lose everytime. If your priest is forced to heal dps, you are in bad shape. He should be dispelling/mana burning/mind blasting that last 10% away from your kill target.
EDIT:Reading the above poster I would have to agree. I feel rogue warlock priest just isn't a very powerful set up right now. I consistently run into counter comps (Hunter/warrrior/healer, Rogue/Warrior/Healer, Warrior/Healer x 2) and I feel it is underpowered vs many set ups and at best 50/50. Warlocks play to outlast but Rogue priest cannot play to outlast, rogues are ineffective once they use up their cooldowns. However if you play properly you can use your strengths to exploit your opponents weaknesses. (IE: vs druid teams, chain fear druid and kill a dps or just kill the druid outright if the positioning is proper.) The biggest weakness of the comp is that it feels like you should be playing to outlast, but you cannot win consistently if you do so because there are just too many counter comps that play the outlast game better than rogue priest.
To deal with rogues, gouge / cs / ks / blind / fear. Even if he is undead, make him burn his cd's to remove fear than blind. He will run out. Don't stick him but slow him down a little and put pressure on something you can catch.
I've recently gotten back into PvP. I've got both of the bt/hyjal (Syphon/swiftsteel) maces and the bt/hyjal (Infamy/Savagery) swords (Not even close to the rating needed for the arena ones). I've started doing 2's with a resto druid and really enjoy it.
My questions are around wep choice and specs. First: I would assume a 20/41 swords would be amazingly powerful (which it has proven to be thus far) but at the same time, would a 20/41 maces be more powerful because of the stun ability on a healer or possible mana burner of my druid? So which weapons would make for the best overall choice? Second: If i were to go swords, I would assume that combat would outweigh SHS merely because I'm far less kitable with my druid cyclone/rooting ppl. And if I were to go maces, would I still stay combat or would SHS be a better option?
I'd like to really just here preferences and why that is said preference. I understand that they are probably fairly close so numbers aren't as big of a deal as a reasoning that I can relate to in situations I've seen. My partner is well geard, well killed and played in the 2300+ brackets of all arena types, I trust him completely. That said, I want to be able to perform the best as we move up the brackets to possibly 2k+. Thanks for any input people have, especially rogues that partner with a resto druid.
Keep uprating until you have problems, then think about it?
Weapon type doesn't matter with ShS.
ShS sustained isn't that far off Combat and it's much more survivable. It also has 90 second blind and long range sap, plus the stealth talents. And PREP! All are very powerful. Certainly worth ~50g to try it unless there are aspects of Combat you feel you rely on.
If you're going Combat, surely Maces is ALWAYS better- Mace Stun is incredibly powerful. Not on someone mana burning or a healer, just on your target, to stop him getting away / interrupting a cast.
combat maces is probably better than swords for 2s, a mace stun can win a match while you're trying to chase down a druid.
ShS obviously has no weapon specs so it doesn't matter what you use, but the highest rated rog/dru teams I've seen were all shs-rogue + moonkin druid. the moonkin healing spec is really the best way to beat war/dru teams, which is probaby all you'll be fighting eventually.
I've recently gotten back into PvP. I've got both of the bt/hyjal (Syphon/swiftsteel) maces and the bt/hyjal (Infamy/Savagery) swords (Not even close to the rating needed for the arena ones). I've started doing 2's with a resto druid and really enjoy it.
My questions are around wep choice and specs. First: I would assume a 20/41 swords would be amazingly powerful (which it has proven to be thus far) but at the same time, would a 20/41 maces be more powerful because of the stun ability on a healer or possible mana burner of my druid? So which weapons would make for the best overall choice? Second: If i were to go swords, I would assume that combat would outweigh SHS merely because I'm far less kitable with my druid cyclone/rooting ppl. And if I were to go maces, would I still stay combat or would SHS be a better option?
I'd like to really just here preferences and why that is said preference. I understand that they are probably fairly close so numbers aren't as big of a deal as a reasoning that I can relate to in situations I've seen. My partner is well geard, well killed and played in the 2300+ brackets of all arena types, I trust him completely. That said, I want to be able to perform the best as we move up the brackets to possibly 2k+. Thanks for any input people have, especially rogues that partner with a resto druid.
SHS is DEFINATLY the better option if you have access to t6+ gear. It's just insane. (Yes I have turned from mutilate, as I bought swords for pve.. and tried out ShS...).
I'm not sure I won't spec mutilate for 5v5, but for 3v3/2v2 ShS is just win. I had 2 amazing wins in 3v3 RMP that would've been certain losses with Mutilate. Hmm, maybe it's just the excessive pve gear I used (which isn't a option in 5's, at least not that much) I don't know. I do know that I need to work a lot more on my cooldown usage (going from mutilate cd's to full set of cd's that ShS offers is daunting at best).
Also what class is your partner? (Druid?) in 2's you can easily afford heavy pve gear and coupled with the druids insane mana-efficiency it's a winning combination.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
I wreck ShS rogues as Combat Maces in 2v2. It's pretty easy to do with a Disc Priest partner, no matter what healing partner they have. Mace Stuns >>>> Rogues. It's sad that the class we counter most effectively is our own. I haven't fought too many druid hybrid regen build/ShS rogues, but the I have haven't really been a problem. Of course, 2v2 is more about being effective in the bracket you're in, and that combo has more strength versus Druid/War.
Excellent advice from all. I think I'll stick with combat and just go maces (because mace stun is OP). If/when we get to the point where war/druid teams of great kill are dominating us, I'll respec shs and check it out.
I'll do a search, but anyone have a basic combat maces pvp spec? I know what I'd do for pve, but I know you have to reorder some talents and choose between some whcih, at least in my eyes, are about equal. Thoughts?
if you're specing for 2v2 Combat Maces, I suggest my spec 11/50 if you and your partner have solid communication (when you get sapped, which is a lot) or 11/44/7 to prevent sapping and get a little blind range. The extras in Combat make for good abolish poison countering and sustained damage.
Without any poison talents, you'll get recked by druids because of abolish. Back with HARP, unless you got the jump on the druid and instantly cc'ed his partner and you got in full AR's on him, its way too hard to catch a druid and keep up poisons.
Although I can't argue that mace stuns are great, I really do miss em going to ShS now. You have to go Surprise attacks though if you're going combat, its so valuable.
Without any poison talents, you'll get recked by druids because of abolish. Back with HARP, unless you got the jump on the druid and instantly cc'ed his partner and you got in full AR's on him, its way too hard to catch a druid and keep up poisons.
Although I can't argue that mace stuns are great, I really do miss em going to ShS now. You have to go Surprise attacks though if you're going combat, its so valuable.
A druid is going to get those poisons off no matter what, people give Vile Poisons wayyyy too much credit for keeping them up. If you're not keeping several offhands with different poisons for shiving in 2v2, you're not going to get too far against druid teams. You're going to have to Shiv Wound Poison a decent amount against Druid/War with any spec, save for Mutilate.
With a heavy combat build you can mainhand deadly, offhand wound and keep another offhand with crippling on it. You focus the warrior, Shiv up Wounding and hope RNG doesn't fuck you over with Blade Twisting. Having several applications of Deadly Poisons on your target is worth a lot more than having Vile Poisons.
A druid is going to get those poisons off no matter what, people give Vile Poisons wayyyy too much credit for keeping them up. If you're not keeping several offhands with different poisons for shiving in 2v2, you're not going to get too far against druid teams. You're going to have to Shiv Wound Poison a decent amount against Druid/War with any spec, save for Mutilate.
With a heavy combat build you can mainhand deadly, offhand wound and keep another offhand with crippling on it. You focus the warrior, Shiv up Wounding and hope RNG doesn't fuck you over with Blade Twisting. Having several applications of Deadly Poisons on your target is worth a lot more than having Vile Poisons.
The fact that Rogues (in BG10 at least) don't typically have Vile Poisons makes arenas a lot easier, even if they try and burst me the 3-4 seconds I can get away is enough to reduce the Wound Poison stack while getting a fair bit of health back from HoTs, same with healing my team mate.
If you let a Druid keep you from getting past 1-2 stacks of Wound Poison then it probably won't matter, but once you get 3+ stacks with a 40% resist rate it's far harder to get down, if you were using Deadly Poison on top of it I doubt I could get it off easily without burning through a lot of mana.
Made a switch from Mutilate and bought S3 Swords mainly for PvE purposes. Question, should I stay full Combat Swords or go ShS in PvP when I'm playing with my Disc Priest? ShS seems somehow tempting but I have no idea if its good in 2v2 with healer teammate. With Combat I can dish out quite insane damage thought, hard choice.
Most problems become against *drums* Druid and Warrior teams *drums*. I know with Combat Maces it would be easier to keep Warrior locked down and prevent him killing my priest, ShS probably won't help against this setup right?
I believe that if you are going to be partnered with a Disc Priest you will have more success overall as full combat (boring-ass spec not fun to play at all except when you get insane riposte procs).
ShS and Resto Druid is an effective combo against most teams (pretty much all) except for the most dreaded Druid + Warrior/Warlock teams. As Disc Priest + Full Combat Rogue you stand a chance against both teams better.
Druid/Mutilate is underestimated in my opinion. Quick recovery is really strong with a druid and Mutilate offers always the possibility of high damage peaks, which will shorten any drinking breaks from enemy healers. After having severe troubles we found a combination of crowd control and damage to finish off pets reliably or to win the mana war, if the pet is healed due to vile poisons and an extra offhand with deadly.
The biggest problems are warrior teams with improved hamstring, as this basically destroys mutilate rogues more than mace stuns. But I rarely find warriors with that many points in the arm tree.
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The biggest problems are warrior teams with improved hamstring, as this basically destroys mutilate rogues more than mace stuns. But I rarely find warriors with that many points in the arm tree.
I find that a strange comment - Imp hamstring requires less points to reach than Mortal strike, ergo every warrior in PvP will have enough points in Arms to get it. Whether they want to take it over more damage focused talents is debatable, but I find it an excellent talent and I think most warriors have at least 2/3.
Druid/Mutilate is underestimated in my opinion. Quick recovery is really strong with a druid and Mutilate offers always the possibility of high damage peaks, which will shorten any drinking breaks from enemy healers. After having severe troubles we found a combination of crowd control and damage to finish off pets reliably or to win the mana war, if the pet is healed due to vile poisons and an extra offhand with deadly.
The biggest problems are warrior teams with improved hamstring, as this basically destroys mutilate rogues more than mace stuns. But I rarely find warriors with that many points in the arm tree.
I play muti in 3s and 5s, so I naturally tried it in 2s with my druid partner.. it's a horrible set up imo.
When you are going toe to toe with a war/rogue/hunter your damage output starts to drop dramaticly, because just one snare/stun/root/aoe_fear that you didn't anticipate will make it really hard for you stay on your targets back. I've had cases where my druid would root the war, and I got rooted in return.. so for about 4 second the war and I are just trading blows... except I'm shiving because I'm rooted
I do agree that QR is awesome when paired with a healer, and thats why I play QR/Combat with my druid partner.
Out of these three which one would work better in a rogue/rogue SHS team for a DPS trinket: Tsunami Talisman, BB, DST. Hit rating will not be an issue when I get a few pieces of S3 and is currently 86 with the TT equipped. My crit is 32.40%, however, my AP is currently only 1608, and I figure AP is more favorable versus high resilience targets. Should I stick with TT because of its proc or should I switch to the passive attack power of DST or BB and choose between the 20.6% haste proc or the on use 278 AP?
What is a good mace build for a rogue and what would the attack rotation be. I have recently attained 70 and this is my first rouge (I use a resto druid and a SL lock as mains). I am really only using my rogue to do BGs and arenas.
Out of these three which one would work better in a rogue/rogue SHS team for a DPS trinket: Tsunami Talisman, BB, DST. Hit rating will not be an issue when I get a few pieces of S3 and is currently 86 with the TT equipped. My crit is 32.40%, however, my AP is currently only 1608, and I figure AP is more favorable versus high resilience targets. Should I stick with TT because of its proc or should I switch to the passive attack power of DST or BB and choose between the 20.6% haste proc or the on use 278 AP?
I would use the BB all the time, DST if you go combat.
01/29/08, 3:29 PM
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