How are high-rated Rogue / Mage teams doing lately? I've been reading elsewhere that it's not a good combo anymore. Any recommendations on how to spec for it? I've been playing with a Frost Mage and we're not really getting anywhere. We've hit 1740 and now we're back to 1600 basically. It just seems so streaky. Either we kick ass or we get our asses kicked, not middle ground there.

Never played that setup myself but there is quite good video of the combo in WCM.

Vilden - Mage/Rogue 2v2 Arena PvP

That's the story of a 2dps setup. You win or lost at a fast pace. 2 dps setups have 1 or maybe 2 windows of opportunity in a fight to win things. Mage and Rogue teams are still pretty good I'd say.

Which spec would be most useful for this 3's build we are working on. Pally(ret)/Shammy(enhan)/Rogue.

I was thinking, even though nerfd, Adr/prep would be more viable due to lack of "real" heals (Survivability). And the dmg+ on the hemo would help both melee's?

I am kinda stuck on which spec i should run with anyways, though i do find adr/prep is fun. ATM i am Spec swords, due to frost shock wtfpwn. Only thing i do on this 3's set up is find the "opportune" time to strike then poof, be gone.

Also, is it worth the repeated stun locks, or should i just push run/walk (lol) to follow behind the frost-shocked MT?

Hello all. I'm looking for some advice regarding trinkets in arena. Right now, I equip [Medallion of the Horde] and [Bloodlust Brooch]. I have my SS macroed with the BB so it goes off every time it's available. I like the burst damage I get from BB, but I've been looking at the Battlemaster's trinkets. Is a static +40 crit rating or +80 AP, along with the use ability, better for arenas than the burst damage provided by BB? Also, for a mace rogue, do you think that the crit or AP trinket is better? Thanks, all.

I think it comes down to an obvious matter of personal preference. A hp boost to an ap boost. I personally prefer the battlemaster trinket as it has saved me on too many occasions. Great to use when cheat death procs.

From my experience; there are very few classes that can irritate your opponent more that a ShS rogue in a Battleground. If you have poor gear, and are not looking to kill but to delay/irritate/divert attention away from what they're supposed to be focusing on, I say stick with ShS.
It's a fun build, and can get you out of most anything.

Dont use Sinister Strike if you got Hemo. ShS will be nice build in arenas as well, it got nice survivalibility and you are hard to kite around. If you team up with another melee dps hemo debuff will benefit you even more.

So much of 2's atm are druid/warrs. And I think mage/rogues do exceptionally well against that team. Unless the druid plays ridiculously well and stay pretty offensive. I currently play mage/rogue atm and near 2.2k, its very viable. As ShS, you can really let the fights drag on as opposed to AR/prep because you're less CD reliant.
But obviously the hardest combo would be druid/lock. A lot of lock combos hurt this set up besides SP/lock. But hey, locks are OP amirite? =)

It won't let me make my own thread, and this one is related to what I want to know, so I was wondering if I could get some opinions and analizations on a spec please. My focus is PVP, and I'm playing Subtlety because I enjoy it the most and like the level of interaction required for backstabs (I have considered trying Mutilate again too).

Here is my current build: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

Some people posted in another forum that you shouldn't use Hemo with daggers, Imp. Evisc. & Ruthlessness are bad choices, and I should have Deadliness and Imp. Ambush. After seeing that, here's what I came up with:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

What I am wondering is (even though dagger ShS is a poor damage build, as I've been told) which of these talents that are different between the 2 specs should I take and why?

Both of those builds will do horrible sustained damage, have weak burst on high resilience targets, and generate few combo points. Oh, and as a dagger build you'll have a hell of a time positioning with no imp gouge or ability to generate enough combo points to even get a full duration kidney shot.

If you're seriously interested in dagger pvp, go one of the mutilate builds, 41/20, 41/0/18+2, 54/0/7, 42/12/7, etc. Otherwise you're occasionally looking at being able to burst down low-geared cloth in bgs, and that's about all.

20/0/41 is the standard shadowstep build now i believe, and shadowstep is incredibly fun to play from my experiences

Yep, just don't bother using it with Daggers. Ran into a Shadowstep dagger rogue in arena play once. His team was not victorious. However I hear it's great for for battleground/world ganking. If you really really must use daggers and really really must have some Subtlety points then go one of those poison heavy mutilate/sub builds like 54/0/7 mentioned above.

My war/rogue/druid 3v3 team as me being the rogue is currently sitting at 2240 now. Shadowstep now really has the utility to turn games if played right.

But I wasted 4K arena points buying s3 daggers. Dagger sstep is still horrible in all aspects in my opinion. I'm still sticking to s1 fists and going to pick up the off hand fist next week.

I also find shs to be quite a viable alternative to mutilate in 5s, though the burst is a lot less, I usually wear all pve gear I can squeeze in that situation. CC coordination would switch between priests and pallys apart from mutilate.

Vile poisons are a huge part of sstep's new success.I am so happy that nitrana convinced blizz to fix this back then useless talent. It helps me so much vs druid teams, pressuring them out of ccing.

Playing with a resto shammy on 1800+, I rather have the BB instead of the Battlemaster. I need the burst once in the 2 minutes, I time it to start it when my target is at like 20%, so I am sure that the burst is actually needed. If it doesn't kill the target it puts an immense pressure on the healer.

well, actually, the old mutilate builds 41/20/0 and 41/0/20 are also still fine if you play 2v2 and 3v3 mostly.

its prolly good and it sounds like fun, but I don't think its good in the higher arena ratings. SK Gaming | World of Warcraft Arena Ranking nobody plays it either if you look at some of the best teams.

I'm stuck using daggers atm (S2 MH and Malchazeen), but also spec'd ShS. I have the daggers because I was mutilate for quite a while and haven't replaced them yet, and the ShS spec is necessary for our 3v3 as it compliments our playstyle.

My question is how much is running hemo with daggers currently hurting us? I am about to spend honor on more resilience gear, but does anyone think that I should really just get a Season 1 weapon instead?

I remember the guy (Tosan?) who did Renataki Twins movie played it to 2.2 or 2.3k rating at the end of s2 with 2x Mutilate+Druid.

I'd guess that combining a 20/0/41 shs rogue with a 41/20 mutilate rogue would work wonders, as ShS can drop Improved EA (and an initial sap on their healer/one dps) from the start allowing mutilate rogue to simply flatout nuke.
Problem teams would probably be Warlock/Mage/x healer, but those aren't usually very common.
Against RWaD, it's a bit tricky but I'd guess nuking the warrior would put enough pressure to force the druid to heal instead of cyclone spam.

Ouch, get s1 sword/mace/fist and you'll see considerable difference. For now you can oh either shanker or malcha, as oh isn't that important in ShS, your shiv's will cost a bit more and probably do less damage than with s1 sword/mace/fist BUT it's not a gamebreaking difference (usually).

On other news I can't decide what to do with Vile Poisons. I'm thinking going 5/5 Vile, 3/5 Leth, 1/2 Imp. EA or going 4/5 Vile, 5/5 Leth and no Imp. EA, but Lethality is really such a lackluster talent that perhaps 2/5 Lethality and full EA...
I'd just wish they'd Enveloping Shadows and Master of Subtlety so I could go 2/5 Deadliness, 3/3 ES. Imo ES is one of our most undervalued talents and I'm having a hard time parting with it.
Or well I'll try out Vile today after raid in 5v5.

Too much vulnerability in playing rogue/rogue/druid. Anything with a paladin wrecks you. 2 healer wrecks you. Any strong setups 2100+ are going to wreck you. You'll zerg a few priests and warlocks down, but once teams know they're queueing against you, the strength of triple stealth cloth zerg goes way way down.

Finally got a chance to play some of the FOTM 5v5 ShS Rogue/FrMage/Felguard Lock/Disc Priest/+Healer. Surprised to find myself having fun in 5v5 again, unlike playing 4dps this team has a lot of survivability through CC, but can also dish out a ton of burst. Hit 1850 through a weekend of games, hopefully will get to 2k with it soon and be able to share more seasoned thoughts.

@Grunge
Enveloping is nice, I'd agree, but at that point how defensive do you need to be with Shadowstep? Asking them to combine it with Master of Sub is a bit much, although I would put that talent as not valuable due to us having so few moments to restealth besides vanish. Would be great if it worked with Shadowstep.

Thank you. I'm going to get a new weapon which I think at the moment will have a greater impact than a 30 resi increase (even though I'm still a tad low on resilience)

I searched and was buried under posts so I thought I'd ask.
Do the mace stun procs break CS/KS? Or do they just reduce their effectiveness outside of the opening stun locks? I'd hate to start out with a stun lock and have it broken in half by a proc.

I'm between maces or fists at the moment. Fists I gather have a wider range of damage but maces have the procs. Do anyone find the procs to be a detriment to the overall control of KS?

Hey there,

I've recently been experimenting with arenas so to say, trying 2v2 with a druid partner and 3v3 with the same druid partner and a warrior. Both of these are alts of 2 which I reached about 1.9k with in S2 (warlock, priest) so we're really "just friends playing together", but alts broadened our horizon. We're all basicly very new to the setups (and realisticly, so are most people) and we're basicly full of questions on what to improve. But seeing as this is obviously about rogues, I'll restrict to the rogueish matters

In 2v2 or prime problem is warlock/druid. I realise this isn't really a new point and I think I'm sure it's been adressed to at an earlier point (tactic basicly being to kill two pets to win), but we really just cannot find that tactic to be effective whatsoever: Either the pet is out of my range or the warlock runs of to just resummon a pet -also me being on a voidwalker doesn't really stress the oposing druid's mana all too much either, atleast not noticably. Our battlegroup I believe is pretty tough, but at ~1850 (quite literally everyone has S3 shoulders indicating they hardly belong at that level, but that aside) people shouldn't play perfectly. Point being: we can improve and we should be able to outplay them. I think "finesse tactics" would work out, but if anyone has more detailed suggestion I'd be very pleased. I know PvE gear is a point that's been touched, but I'll get to that later.

On a different note, I'd just like to share that I absolutely love Shs. I can't really speak for 5's and feel it's not particularly awesome in 3's (or rather, not as good as in 2's), but in 2's it's just so much fun to play. The DPS switching that was near impossible before just added so much fun to the bracket for me, and I really hope 2.4 will make the spec even more interesting. Although what came with Shs is also the increasing popularity of PvE gear in PvP, and this I just can't really get my head around. I'm basicly looking at 4/5 T5 (missing chest) vs 4/5 S3 (missing shoulders), I'm mainly interested in the value of the 4/5 bonnus on T5 aswel, I can see that being pretty game breaking. That said, it's obviously not the best of the best when it comes to offensive gear, but I'm still interested to hear what people think. I hope the above questions have not been answered yet since that'd make me look pretty stoopid, but I sadly don't know the entire thread by heart