Safid

The snare resist is my build/gear setup right now and I've tested it for a month or so just to get a feel for it. I want to do some controlled testing to see how the resistance works with spellhit, but haven't been able to rustle up a mage to try it with. My feeling though, is that is how it works, based entirely on anecdotal "when I was in the battleground" evidence.

Subjectively, I don't think it's really worth it. Surefooted isn't the best enchant, true, and while it's really only 2 talent points for Fleet Footed, the real hit is the metagem. I just don't think it's worth giving up 18sta and 5% stun resist.

It does make the odd fight against a mage downright embarassing. Sometimes you get back to back snare resists and that's just it, fight over. But for every fight that happens, there are 10 when you're rooted just like normal and have to blow a cooldown to escape.

I don't find myself having many problems against cloth (though now every priest you have to fight like a shadow priest, discipline priests are enormously hard targets now, EA is a must before killing them) and while I'm sure I'd have a bit more difficulty against mages by changing my setup around to remove the snare resist, my problems remain, as always, the dominance of warriors and the enormous ease with which they kill me in three seconds. Then again, it's not like two points in poison talents and 18 stamina/5% stun resist is going to stop that from happening

 

Monkor

my team struggled with a similar setup the other night.

We are: MS war, myself (mace rogue), warlock, resto shammy, holy pally

They were: priest, 2x holy pally, 2x MS warrior

we won 1 out of 3 vs them. i got on the priest every match to prevent mana burn, and the only time we won was when the priest jumped/fell off the bridge in blades edge arena and was out of LOS for heals while i punished him running back around. once we got the priest down we were able to handle it 5v4 from there.

the other matches on other maps we lost in a long drawn out fight. IMO- it is impossible to go for a warrior- any warrior with 3 healers wont go down without an insane mage burst, which neither your team nor mine has. with your team i would see the hunter as the key. if you can keep the hunter up and viper sting one of the healers mana, and possibly put yourself locking down the heals of another healer you might have a shot at something. assuming you COULD lock down one healer and put the other OOM you now have your MS war vs their MS war, only yours has two healers to their one healer. any fight against 3 healers is going to be long and drawn out so i would just set up for a long fight and focus on interrupts. take it for what its worth coming from me though- like i said we only won 1 out of 3

 

drumbum

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim? I was under the impression that hit rating worked in exactly the same way in PVE and PVP. In PVE, 5% is sufficient to never miss instant attacks against level 70 mobs. All PVP mobs are same level so you shouldn't need more than 5% if this is true.

Where did 7% come from?

 

Ozzmar

I'm curious about this as well. I asked the same question in another forum, and the response I got was something along the lines of the difference between 60 and 70. They said that when Blizz converted all of the percent-based values into ratings before BC, they made this hit rating scale with the level also, so that x amount of hit rating was more valuable to a level 60 than to a 70.

Conceptually I don't think it makes a ton of sense, but that's the only response I've gotten.

Does anyone have any evidence to verify the 5% vs 7% thing one way or the other?

 

Obskuro

Against lvl 70 targets you have 5% chance to miss with your special attacks, so 5% to hit should be enough. I think 7% come from range attacks having 7% chance to miss, and blind is a range attack.

On a side note, there is a talent in the mage's frost tree (Artic Winds) that reduce the chance of being hit by mele and range attacks by 1% per talent point. If maxed, you will need +10% to hit in order to never miss agains a frost mage.

Salud.

PD: Sorry for my english.

 

Ozzmar

No es necesario disculparte. Your English is fine, and thank you for the response.

I could see the 7% chance to miss with ranged attacks applying to Deadly Throw, but Blind? I have never had a Blind "miss", though I have seen them resisted. I always assumed the Blind qualified as a spell that had the standard 96% chance to hit against a same-level target.

 

sp00n

It's 5% for rogues with special attacks against even level targets (level 70 vs. 70) and 5% for hunters against even level targets (and against level 73 it is 9%).
That 7% figure comes out of nowhere, at least to my experience.
Of course, as Obskuro explained, you will want to have more than 5% due to possible talents your opponents have chosen.

// Edit
Blind was changed to be a 'ranged attack' some patches ago, so that it cannot be dodged anymore.

Item Ranking Rogue [horribly outdated]

 

Naboolou

I'll be getting my 5/5 Merciless Pants this week.
I'm a little undecided about which leg armor. My first thought was Nethercleft (40stam/12agi) but after second thoughts I'm thinking maybe Nethercobra (50ap/12crit) would be better.

Here's my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...orn&n=Cambyses

I'm already at about 10.5k hp unbuffed with decent crit. With Nethercleft I'd be over 11k hp but my ap is only around 1300 so I dont know if that extra ap would be the better choice.

Any other thoughts as to whether I need to rework my gear to get more dps at the expense of resil/stam?

 

Tower

If you're Combat go Nethercleft, if you're Mutilate go Nethercobra.

 

Zyz

nethercobra regardless

 

Naboolou

I'm about to go buy my pants and the leg armor. Still cant decide which to get.

Any more thoughts on this?

 

Ozzmar

I'd definitely go with Nethercobra also. You are very well-stacked on both HP and Resilience, so a little boost to your AP is a good choice.

 

Banol

EDIT** I fail at life

 

Tower

Nethercleft is 40sta 12agi.

 

Lieto

I need advice concerning my last points in assasination as a combat mace 19.42.0
Should i go for imp poisons 3/5 or expose armor 2/2 i find both talents very usefull but not sure will extra -1000 armor make big difference while +6% to apply poison is actually 30% more applications making it hard times decursing my wound poisons in 2v2 3v3 and also faster applications on focus target switch etc.

Aiming on arena 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 (we have ms war in our 5v5)

 

• Tiiki

With an MS warrior, Imp Expose is very good, and you need the poison application reliability much less- since MS knocks off wound (PLEASE CHANGE THIS BLIZZ :P). Without one (e.g. in your 2v2, it's a lot less good).

I just switched from 2/2 Imp Expose to 4/5 Imp Poisons (dropped Imp EV too) because I've stopped running with any warriors so keeping 5/5 Wound on is far more important, and expose becomes less good.

 

hogan

Im a PVE rogue just starting to care about pvp, and likely to respec Mutilate each week for arena. I'm a little stuck on what to do with the 20 points leftover after getting Mutilate. It seems like most people go with 41/20/0. But i'm tempted to put some into the sub tree for some nice pvp utility.

Basically what it boils down to is how 5/5 DW spec compares to 5/5 opportunity for overall dmg. I'm not a number cruncher, so i was hoping someone here could help me out.

If opportunity specs out to be higher dps, i would consider something like this:

41/12/8

otherwise i'll go with the 41/20/0.

 

Ozzmar

Well, the two things you're asking for (PvP utility and damage) are pretty inversely related. You generally have to sacrifice one to get the other.

Dual Wield Spec will outdamage Opportunity, hands down (I'm sure it's been discussed a lot here if you Search for it). However with no MoD, you're much more likely to be spotted and smoked before you land a Cheap Shot.

Opportunity certainly isn't bad (your Mutilates will hit harder, but your white damage will suffer), and going something like 44/0/17 works great for PvP only, but your -overall- damage output will be lower vs Dual Wield Spec.

 

• Tiiki

The most useful utility of all for Arena is right there in the Combat tree: Imp Sprint.

Imp Sprint is far far far better than MoD.

So 41/20 is a no brainer if you want to go Mutilate.

 

hogan

the 41/12/8 spec i posted has imp sprint...my post basically was just about comparing 5/5 DW spec vs 5/5 opportunity coupled with 2/2 slight of hand. Comparing these two options strictly in a pvp setting.

 

• Tiiki

Well DW spec is a fair %age more overall damage than opportunity. There's an argument that yellow damage is more important in PvP, but this doesn't necessarily hold as true in Arena, where everyone stacks resilience and HP.

Lots of fights come down to mana wars and things, and in that sense it's like taking down a raid boss with 200,000k HP - you need sustained DPS.

Sleight of Hand/MoD are far worse than Imp SnD and DW spec for this reason. DW spec also helpfully ups Shiv's damage by 25% too.

A typical Mutilate rogue might go: Cheapshot -> SnD -> Mutilate ...

You want to keep SnD up as much as possible for poison applications (and the huge sustained dmg increase) and it's a good way to get Find Weakness up at the start. If you're playing with another physical damage class you'll probably want to drop a 5pt Expose next. Save the big KS/CB-Mut for later as coordinated burst...

Do you have a Renatakis?

Man, I miss playing Mutilate

 

Lookit

As of 9/17, Drysc said there were no plans to change the rogue mace specialization.

WoW Forums -> Well, Since you're here...mace nerf?

 

Tower

Now, question is, when they hell are they going to nerf Warrior mace stun? And balance tank spec locks? Sure hope they don't think PvPers are going to wait until the expansion.

 

Grunge

Doesn't matter when. Everyone should do what all the top people are doing.
Adapt. 4dps or Victorinox Style.
3v3 you play with Warlock-Rogue-Paladin/Priest(paladin for Warrior teams) or Shaman-Shadow Priest-Rogue.
In 2v2 warriors are just a joke when you pair with a Shadow Priest/Warlock.

I'm for one won't be holding my breath until they implement those "nerfs".




P.S. Renataki is the key.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

Tower

Renataki isn't the key for combat builds.