Yep, that's the exact one I was talking about. It is by far the best one I have used for sap.

Why does the /targetenemy take modifiers opposite to what i'd expect?

Because the modifiers don't affect the targetenemy, they affect whether to 'targetenemy' based on your current target. I.E. if your current target is alive and harmful, do nothing. Otherwise, target the nearest enemy.

Ok a perhabs stupid question, but I want to be sure:
Is the parameter 10.000000 based on Dirty Tricks or will this work out fine without ?

Right, but as 41/0/x (which is what I advocated for leveling) you're going to have full normal move speed in stealth (+15% for fleetfooted, +15% for camo), and I tend to feel it's a stronger build for sub-70 world pvp against things that aren't hunters before resilience comes along and messes things up. In particular, I tend to think it's going to have a better time with soloing the 2-3 group quests, especially against stunnable mobs, and most fights are going to be over in the initial CS+KS. Remorseless Attacks also looks a lot better in mutilate for leveling.

In the end, I think it's likely close enough to depend on personal playstyle and preferences, as well as weapon availability, but I'd sooner level as mutilate again myself.

Either way, ShS or Mutilate/Subtletly are, to me, better than full combat for winning pvp fights while levelling and dodging all those nasty 70s that're about.

I should have clarified: If you happened to target a stealthed druid, you would just get an invalid target error for the sap (because the druid isn't a humanoid), and the macro would terminate.

I'm pretty sure you can't put 2 cast commands into the macro and have them run like that. I tried to make a riposte/hemo macro like that before with just:

/cast Riposte
/cast Hemorrhage

The result was just "that ability is not ready yet".

While these cookie cutter setups probably have more potentional, I wouldn't say shaman/rogue is that bad. When it comes to 1.5 DPS shamans probably pack the biggest punch (amongst healing specs) through heroism and the base damage of their offensive spells. If the warriors you fight are poor enough (and untill 1.8k basicly all of them were) they won't go sword&board to soak up burst, so you can grab a quick kill. Earthshock on a paladin/other shaman and purge spam with a druid should put up alot of pressure. Shamans aren't the best lasters without a pet feeding them water shield mana, and if you play it well you can decide matches fast.

Mind that this is just theorycraft and for a small bit based on a warrior/priest team some friends run (obviously purge > priests, though), but I hope it's something new to try for you folks.

It's not new, and it's still not a good comp. I ran it in S2 for points because that's all that was available to my rogue at the time and the only reason it worked as AR/Prep. i know Gurgthock and Wodin tried to run this in S1/S2 and they could probably go on lengthy diatribes as to why such a group is less effective than the ones mentioned as well. Shamans cannot CC, nor can they dispel. They don't have HoTs and Earth Shield is easily stealable/dispellable. You're better off a with a DPS class that has some CC or a healer with CC.

My previous post got lost in the chatter.

How do mutilate rogues plan to spec when 2.4 hits with punctured wounds?

Currently I am planning to use: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

My confusion centers around Lethality vs Murder vs Quick Recovery.

I am choosing to initially keep Lethality while in the lower brackets as I don't expect to run into many 400 resilience targets initially. When I begin to run into targets with heavy resilience, is the conventional wisdom that the points in Lethality are essentially wasted?

Lethality is never "wasted" in a mutilate build. All mutilate has going for it at the moment is burst, so you should take as many steps to improve that burst as possible. That is why lots of people, including myself, have taken 2/3 Imp Evis over Murder.

Lethality is only a mediocre choice for Combat builds, but now that full combat is pretty much out-dps'd by full Sub it seems every build takes Lethality once again. Some Assassination-ShS specs I've seen only have 2 pts in Leth in order to get to Vile Poisons, but other than that... Leth isn't very good but there isn't anything better really.

I ran such a team until I took a break from arenas, and it was pretty okey in s2 (ended with 1900 in Blackout group, I'm not Gladiator material so I don't know if we could've gone higher), but a flatout nightmare in s3 when war/dru started springing up everywhere. We were outright splattered by those teams, except when the druid both made a mistake and had sub-par gear. We had at least 2 weeks when we lost against every war/dru and won against everything else. I played as combat swords btw, and I never really tried out shadowstep because it was before the buffs.

Rogue/Rshaman/Spriest was a very strong comp in s1 and s2, but as Spriest got worse and worse and Druid/War synergy got better what little synergy was left between the three died in a bloody bloody car crash.

Morally I cannot admit shaman are inferior to the other healers in 2v2. Yes I'm in denial but I'm stubborn and proud to play a shaman. Instead I like think they require more skill to play and cannot afford as many mistakes as say a druid or priest.

A ShS rogue is probably one of the more "workable" partners for a resto shaman. Reason being ShS rogues are very hard to control and when pressed can stay alive much longer than most of the other classes which is important because shaman are very vulnerable to CC.

As Mofidik points out shaman are offensive healers. An above-average geared shaman Lightning Bolt(LB)/Chainlightning (CL) hits for about ~1.2k and shocks for about 1k. With Bloodlust/Heroism LB cast time drops to just under 2 seconds while CL dips to 1.5 seconds. A lot of shaman also put 5 points in concussion (5% damage increase to CL/LB/shocks) specifically for 2v2, 3v3. Mathematically that's decent dps.

If you group with a resto shaman your success can be influenced by how well you recognize opportunities when to use this supplemental dps. For example when facing a druid/warrior team if the druid gets away to drink you can try to lure the warrior out of LoS of his partner. At which point stop healing, abuse the fact you have cheat death and try to take out the warrior. A well timed CL followed up with NS/LB nets at least 2.5k+ damage (even more if either crits) and will catch most teams off guard. If you wait the GCD and shock afterwards, that's 3.5k+ damage in roughly 1.5 seconds.

Another opportunity to use the "1.5 dps" is if you manage to successfully get a sap off at the start of the match. Early pressure on some teams can cause them to panic or at least force them to go defensive. Not to mention if you can pull off a full duration blind you might want to risk going for a kill.

Most matches directly depend on a shaman's ability to interrupt spells and effectively use grounding/tremor totem. Some fights the shaman needs to be hiding as much as possible. Other fights he must to fight to stay in LoS or a mixture of the two. But with any class combinations, if you have good strategies and better communication you can certainly reach modest success in 2v2 which most people are looking for.

I sapped a druid stealthed in cat form in the arena the other day. Was that just a bug that allowed me to do that?

Non humanoid = not sappable currently. They didn't hotfix the 2.4 sap change in as far as I know. The only scenario I can think of is sapping a druid in caster form at the exact second he siwtched to cat, and due to server latency it made the transformation but still sapped him, like those times you catch the warrior in battle stance and sap him at the moment he charges.

These shaman enhancement buffs make me really sad. Do they really have to cater more to the synergy between shaman and warrior? Sure, this helps shamans have a 2v2 spec, but I'm worried it's going to make 3v3 out of control. I thought healing debuffs were going to always be a integral part of Warrior and Rogue classes, now they just give MS to shaman making wound that much worse in comparison?

I sure hope there's poison changes around the corner, or a hefty nerf to abolish or BOTH.

I don't see how this stops anyone from gibbing the enhancement shaman first. He can 1h shield to slowdown the pain train but as a melee class they have no outs. Rogues have vanish, Paladins bubble, warriors can spell reflect and get stronger when taking damage. Shaman just take the pain fall over and die.

How about 15s of 30% damage reduction in shamanistic rage? 50% duration on snares goes a LONG way. I'd trade that for Fleet Footed without a second thought.

A shaman playing defensively can still shock incoming casts, just like a warrior can spell reflect, grounding totem too.

No question warrior/druid is a tough matchup for rogue/shaman. Ideally you want to kill the druid but like you said if you are unable to do so and run out of cooldowns you have to switch to the warrior. I think we all know who wins in a rogue vs. warrior fight when you are snared and have zero cooldowns left. With that in mind I have a possible tactic specifically for human rogues (feel free to critique it). The general idea is approach the battle as a two dps team zerging the druid as quickly as possible before your cooldowns run out. All or nothing baby!

At the start it's vital the shaman remain mounted and avoid any confrontation with the warrior while you use perception to find the druid as quickly as possible. The shaman should use enemy name plates to keep out of LoS using anything and everything on the map to buy time. Unfortunately, there are really no places hide in Ruins of Lordaeron so he might want to fall back inside the gate. Most teams will not attack inside their enemy's gate at the start as it pulls the druid out of position and it's generally viewed as dangerous. Once you find the druid have your shaman partner collapse as you start dpsing the druid. If your shaman was charged/snared at the start it will take a little while before he can contribute dps, however 95% of the time the warrior will retreat to help his druid and that will give your shaman an opportunity to snare the warrior. At this point some of the more experienced posters could theorize what combos are best to burn a druid as rouge. You could try to stun it as much as possible to prevent the druid going bear and charging away as your partner rains CL/LBs. Might also want to consider incorporating SnS into your cycle as its multiplicative with BL/heroism. Hopefully with the two of you all out dpsing you can kill the druid before you run of out cooldowns or die yourself.

Obviously there are alot things that can go wrong. A successful disarm, bash, mace stun proc, intercept, stun resist, feral charge, or fear will mess things up and prolong any plan. Personally I would devote your trinket for intercept stuns, bash or for an emergency snarebreaker. If your team gets feared, it falls onto your shaman to trinket and drop tremor quickly. If the druid manages to switch to bear use evasion even if the warrior isn't hitting you try prevent the bash. Feral charge is very difficult to prevent as druids are always moving and your shaman has to be stationary to cast bolts or healing spells. The shaman might be better off moving with the druid while using his instants, shocking whenever it's up, dropping earthbind and purging selectively. If you guys manage to get a stun off or able to get the druid low the shaman can stop and try for CL+NS/LB combo or safely start spam some bolts.

As I'm sure some of you are aware, you cannot use Nature's Swiftness to instantly cast a spell while moving. You have to be standing still or the macro requires two button presses to work. For example, if a druid wants to NS/Healing Touch while fleeing he has to hit his macro twice which takes .5-1 seconds. If you can apply enough pressure to provoke them into using NS while they are moving (as druids usually are) you can purge it or apply a stun before the second spell gets off . This doesn't happen often but if you are successful it's absolutely devastating.

Obviously this entire strategy doesn't work as well if you don't have perception or are unable to find the druid. At which time you would probably have dps the warrior to force the druid out of stealth and then switch. Only benefit of this is alot of druids open with cyclone/roots which you can null with a preemptive grounding totem.

How is giving shaman a debuff that warriors already have catering to the synergy between shaman and warrior? If anything, it's not much of a buff at all to them.

This strikes me as a change in the right direction that allows for more 2v2 combinations to be competitive. (Keep in mind, it's not just enhancement shaman - it adds some utility to resto and elemental as well.) Maybe it's too powerful and the percentages or application method needs to be scaled back, but I think the basic idea (giving shamans some core PvP utility) is good.

Honestly, so much has changed for shaman on the PTR at the moment that I think it will take a while to really assess what this all ends up meaning for the PvP balance of various classes.

I agree that we won't know what these changes truly mean for some time yet.

But to answer your question: giving the shaman an MS effect reduces the effect any kind of counter-strategy relying on controlling the warrior, which is really the best strategy for reducing the effect of a double melee team tearing apart your clothies. With warrior/shaman, no matter which target you control, you're stuck with a healing debuff.

My real fear: imagine a ret pally, enhance shaman, and warrior training your clothie. They'll be dead in seconds.

Ret-Pal/Enh-Sham/Feral-Druid :O

Lots of stacking auras and buffs there, incredible melee damage, good survivability, and all 3 can heal a little bit.

Yikes.