Tower

Did you just say mutilate's offhand damage doesn't take an offhand dual wield penalty, but does get the bonus from talents?..

 

gummy2

The 101 base damage is not affected by the DW penalty but is affected by +25% dw damage if you spec 5/5 dual wield. I'm pretty sure that was the math people were coming up with over a year ago which made DW mutilate viable.

 

aaroninwv

That's just the bonus damage (which is a big part of it). You get 101 bonus on both weapons without dw, but 101/~150 with the talent.

 

Jo

Can someone who understands the mechanics behind poison application tell me if the 5% base chance for applications to be resisted means I lose 1 in 20 applications (5 of 100), or 1 in 4 mind-numbing (5 of 20) and 1 in 6 crippling/deadly/wound (5 of 30)?

 

malthrin

Is anyone still running Druid/Rogue? My roommate and I have been playing this and hovering right around 1800. We could use some advice to help us get up to 1850. Most of our losses today were to Rogue+caster 2 DPS teams. On most of those matches, my Rogue did not get the opener and ends up trinketing early - this puts us behind, where I need all my GCDs to keep him up and can't risk getting counterspelled on a Cyclone. After that opening, usually my Rogue will eat a full duration CC and I'll die. Is this typical? We both only have about 200 resilience - do we just need more so that failing to get the opener isn't so devastating? Or can we do more to not get behind at the beginning?

I'm thinking I should probably try to get the 4-piece, even though it will be nerfed soon, just to help get away from Rogues in the interim as I get more s3 gear. Any other strategy tips are welcome, though we've been doing pretty well against most other makeups. I just logged in my PvP gear/spec, so hopefully that will come up if you want to check out my armory.

edit: ok, disregard armory specs now - last night I went back to raiding spec and my teammate specced shadowstep ambush for giggles. I'm usually 13/11/37 and he's usually 20/0/41 with s2 sword.

 

Nikah

I'm starting a new rogue for PVP because I don't want to regem/respec my main. It goes without saying that if I'm posting this I have a lot to learn about arena, hence why I read these forums. Question: does RWP team have any major obvious weaknesses that prevent it from being effective against general matchups? I understand you have to consider counter makeups and arena is very circumstantial, but is there any blatant reason this team composition would be gimp? Feel free to flame with constructive purpose.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

• LodeRunner

First things first. Your main is a Rogue. You don't want to PvP on your main (again, a Rogue) so you are going to make an alt to PvP on. This alt will be a Rogue. The two reasons you have for doing this are a) You do not wish to spend 100g per week on respecs and b) you do not want to regem what I can only assume is PvE gear that you were planning to use in an arena setting. Did I get all this right?

 

Nikah

Yes. All of those statements are correct.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

• LodeRunner

This is quite possibly the worst idea I've heard all month.

 

Nikah

I said constructive, that would require an explanation.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

Nikah

It might make more sense if I mentioned the fact that my friends are rolling alliance and my main is horde.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

• LodeRunner

Ah, and it only took 5 posts to extract the most crucial part of information

 

Nikah

Sawwwwyyyy. Relevance of the original question was the arena team composition, not why I made the decision. Sorry for not being concise.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

malthrin

So, about your arena team composition: it might help if you spelled out the W and the P.

 

Nikah

Yeah it's stupid day for me. I'm at work doing like 6 things at once. Rogue Warrior Priest. Priest will be Disc something, they're still deciding. I'm just trying to figure out whether or not a rogue with a warrior is okay or if I should start another class. I've heard people say to replace Rogue with Pally but I do not know so I wanted some general opinions as to whether or not it is even feasible. The Rogue will most likely be Mut, but I won't know till 2.4 so I can see how the changes pan out.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

Tower

Rogue/Warrior/Priest does not work. Rogues and Warriors do not have good CC. Rogue/Warrior/Druid works because your healer is a druid; has great cc, amazing healing and can withstand being focused - and can even escape.

You'll do ok training cloth up to 1800 I guess, but any 2dps+healer team is going to shit on your priest and there won't be anything you can do about it. 2 healer + warrior teams will simply win very easily too.

 

gummy2

Have you tried Rogue Warrior Priest before saying it doesn't work? Easily got 2k running Warrior Rogue Priest on a point selling team and it's definitely a gladiator caliber comp. Don't underestimate offensive AND defensive dispels.

 

Tower

Yeah, I have. Our mage is a bit younger, but Gladiator from Season 1 and Season 2, well got grounded for a good month period. To which my priest friend and I tried a variety of rogue/priest comps. Even rogue/priest/spriest along with rogue/warrior/priest, rogue enhance shaman/priest.

Um, if you have stellar players, good gear and communication, you can get 2k with near any rogue+dps+healer comp - along with a variety of other strange makeups that aren't "popular". I'm not underestimating anything, you're ignoring the evidence of why the comp doesn't "work" and citing limited anecdotal evidence. Fighting uphill comp battles and winning is a sign of skill (somewhat) not the strength of a strange comp.

Guess I can't say much about Ruin, but it's not Gladiator caliber on Rampage, which will likely be 2315+ rating by the end of the season. You're going to get wrecked by RMP, wrecked by Warrior/Rogue/Druid, wrecked by War/Warlock/Druid and many, many double healer/warrior teams. How do you plan on beating War/Pal/Shm? War/Dru/Priest? I guess there's some strength against drain teams with a priest instead of a hunter, but druid/hunter/lock should be wrecking you too.

 

Nikah

The info I was looking for. I convinced my warrior pal to roll mage so we're going Rogue Priest Mage. Apparently no one wanted to roll Druid despite my efforts to convince them. Thanks.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

 

Darkchani

How is lethality affected by resilience ? I've been thinking of re-specing from my current 17/0/44 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft) to a different point allocation in assassination : (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)

Basicaly, imp eviscerate & imp EA versus 30%crit dmg on hemo/(shiv/gouge/ghostly strike).

Then theres the question would that 3rd point in Vile Poison be better than my point in Heightened Sense ? or actualy taking a point from Vile Poison to make it 2/2 Heightened Sense would be better ?

Pros of Heightened Sense is dodging/resisting that random snare/scatter shot/fear/poly (and the bigger stealth detect... hard to value tho)
Pros of Vile Poison is mostly the extra 8% chance to resist dispel.


2v2 : rogue/priest or rogue/druid, nothing serious atm
5v5 : nothing serious, trying to form DWckPMR
3v3 : DWR, 2k rating

Opening games with a 5cp expose armor puts alot of pressure right away especially with 2 melee beating on the same player thus the imp EA would be nice and having that increased burst from imp evi would be nice to finish players, but at the same time losing lethality is going to impact on my normal dps since 26%to 31% of my hemo will hit(crit) for 30% less... that depens on how resilience affects it too...

VP versus HSense... dunno either since neither is something you see much... did i resist this howl of terror because its an AE(Enveloping Shadows) or because its a spell(HSense) ? Did my wound poison resist or i just re-applied it ? etc
And with all the human rogues im usualy the one sapped if a sap happens :/

PS : I also welcome tips on PMR, their rogue usualy stick on me like glue which gives time for their mage to sheep our warrior while their priest runs after our druid...

 

Homie

hey guys i'm a long time reader, first time poster but i can finally buy the venge main hand 2night and i can't decide
between sword or the mace. Ive tried the search option on the forums but i can't find a good awnser.

The pro's of the sword are:
+ higher low end dmg
+ if i go raid its better dps
+ looks

Pro's of mace
+ higher high end dmg
+ mace stun when i specc combat

Im currently specced 20/0/41 for PVP purposes and pvp is my main thing in WoW. So my question is does the difference in dmg output really matter when ShS specced?

gr

 

Tower

@Darkchani
Er, none of your builds have Relentless Strikes. That's bad, and an issue that is covered in a lot of other rogue threads.
As for resilience and Lethality, read the tooltip carefully then read Resilience - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
It should be clear why Lethality doesn't offer a big damage increase, even in PvE, for 5 point investment. It does however add to the burst that is greatly needed with Shadowstep builds.

@Homie
Please use better grammar and punctuate. Using shorthand like "2night" is also a forum suspendable offense.

As for your question, if you PvE more than you PvP - get the sword. If you PvP more than you PvE - get the mace. Various combat maces builds are still useful. The damage difference is negligible.

 

gummy2

Rogue Mage Priest does not destroy Rogue Warrior Priest. It is the other way around. As double melee priest you can either zerg the priest or have the rogue stick the mage while the warrior sticks the rogue and run him out of cooldowns. However theorycrafting pvp is stupid and fairly senseless because most of this boil's down to who gets the opener and luck (mace stuns, fear resist, dispel resist, string of crits etc)

Regarding Double Healer vs Double melee, Double melee is almost always at a disadvantage in this match up. In fact all rogue comps that run a healer are disadvantaged so this is a moot point if you run rogue healer dps.

As for warlock hunter druid, we had problems vs that set up until we decided to kill the druid. 99% of druids are terrible and get gibbed because they don't know how to los properly.

The problem with a lot of players are that they play a combo wrong and think that combo cannot work. When you play a combo with few reusable cc's you've got to change how you play.

The only team i've played where I felt I was counter comped to the point where it was nearly impossible to win was warrior warrior druid. Double warrior is a rogues worst nightmare.

 

Darkchani

/facepalm ...thats definitly a misclick when filling wowhead talent calc as im definitly 18/0/43 on live. That did make me re-check my talent calculator and current talents... guess my mistake comes from playing around on ptr.

As for added burst, that was sort of the underlying question, is the burst from hemo crits really better than getting an actual burst by having evis do 15% more dmg ? I usualy end up doing kidney shot, EA or SnD way more than evis simply because evi doesnt do much, but then again i have no talent increasing it. Rupture is nice but it doesnt add any burst.
So the question remains, imp evis & EA vs lethality...

 

Uzol

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone has any expirience to share with the slightly unorthodox Rogue / Retadin comp. After our first matches (around 2k) it seems very viable, sort of a counter comp to the druid teams we're seeing everywhere. About half the time we can gib a dps with a simple stunlock / ImpEA, and JoJ + shadowstep + BoF makes it so easy to switch and stick to targets. It seems to really combine a relatively high margin for error with burst, something ive not found with the caster /rogue 2v2 comps in the past. Has anyone run into any walls with this setup?