Nantuko

Let us all pray so. But I thought they said that shiv being unable to miss/dodge was an error in the first place and they fixed it.

So yes, let's all hope that shiv is still unable to miss/dodge

 

Grunge

As mentioned above, You want to pick up Ghostly Strike. Sleigh of Hand is imo useless, and I'd put those points in 4/5 camo and Ghostly.
Also with Serrated Blades+1/2 Imp. EA you're looking at almost 3.1k armor reduction.
Going for 2/2 isn't really worth that much (depends on the setup/battlegroup).

In 2.4 you can purchase s2 for honor so I'd say no, getting shoulders+gloves isn't that hard.
The new pvp gear is just God-Awful. However if you have the rep, you should probably pick up shoulders-gloves for 2pc bonus. In most rogue teams you'd probably want around 225-275 resilience anyway as shadowstep come 2.4.

Tell him to spec Shadowstep and CC won't matter.

Main reason for Wound dropping isn't because he doesn't have talents for it, it's because he's not on the target reapplying it constantly.
In your proposed spec he'll be a poison bot and that's it, his damage is quite a bit lower due to lack of Opportunity or DW Spec.
However if he's one of those "mutilate heroes", then I'd probably go with either 41/20 or 5x/x/x(Distribute the last point in a filler of your choosing, alternatively drop murder for 3/3 Imp. Evisc.)
Having played both, first offers considerable damage (as well as decent poison application if you have time on target.) the second offers a better poison application/maintenance at the cost off damage.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

Sorcerer

Kiting isnt problem, Stuns/Cyclone/Disarm is.

We fairly dont have problems him to maintain on his target most of the time but if we are unlucky on poison procs and he gets cced with stuns/cyclone/disarm we pretty much lose, especially if it happens with double/tri dispelling poison classes resuling in a kite game.

We lose fairly often to 2345/6 due to 2 dispellers + totem pulsing at some point letting the focus target kite us or we can't even put enough pressure, becouse of no wound poison and stacking it is getting toughier if the healers are not pressured that much as they should if we had it stacked.

On the other hand i've been playing in my team on a rogue, double glaive + dst to make is smoother to apply poison but i must say Muti spec still wins if u consider poison applying and keeping the stacks up. The dmg is fairly decent with my gear but after spending some time on TTR i must say muti is much beyond what i can do with the glaives considering burst dmg, combo point generation and poison application/stacking.

Is there some tool to model poison application chance based on your hit rating/talents?

 

Shadowed

Out of curiosity, does anyone know specifically how Vile Poisons works if you have two Rogues using Wound Poison and one has Vile Poisons and the other has Improved Poisons? My assumption would be that the dispel resistance would only apply if the Rogue who had Vile Poisons was the last to apply it and if the other Rogue re-applied Wound Poison you would lose the dispel resistance but haven't been able to verify it either way yet.

 

gummy2

What rating are you playing at that you can't beat the team you are suppose to counter?
I can understand how a 2345 might break loose and gib one of your guys but how do you lose to 2346?

 

Grunge

Well without 5/5 imp. poisons I never went below 150hit as mutilate (and now as shs), with no Imp Poison (ie 41/20) I felt around 100-120 was comfortable enough as mutilate.
As for TTR, I play 2v2 sometimes with another rogue who has only pvp gear. We do so-so hovering in 2k-2.1k.
He went 220resi and heavy dps gear on TTR and we demolished every non-healing paladin team we came across.

Shadowstep with warglaives and pve gear. The stuff of dreams.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

Muzi

So I want to be successful at arenas, 2v2 and 3v3. With only decent daggers to work with, I've come up with this modified ShS dagger build.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Go ahead and criticize, there are a couple points I'm unsure of where i wanted to put, such as 2 in murder instead of lethality - although it will do more damage overall. I also questioned getting Camo, but most of my time will be spent out of stealth so the extra move rate probably isn't worth it.

Also I questioned Ghostly Strike - decent vs warriors, but i have evasionx2 and with positional damage (backstab) i doubt a ghostly strike will be what i need to save me from certain gibbing.

Please open up on me - I've been reading for weeks on what I need to do to be successful at rogue pvp and I'm starting to think I'm just not very good. My gear is lacking, but i've made some recent improvements. Hopefully this spec change will be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Stienz

First of all, dagger with shadowstep sucks. This may sound cruel or something, but its just not a good spec to compete in the 2v2 and 3v3 bracket. I suggest going mutilate (either one of the old variants or the heavy poison mutilate spec, if you want to play with daggers. If you want to go lolstep use a slow hitting mainhand and go for hemo as your main attack. If you play a shadowstep build, I suggest you pickup imp evi too. Since this build lacks burst. A well timed evi can make a large difference in a game. I never saw the use in arena's for enveloping shadows too, it sucks in arena's.

Ghostly strike shouldn't be questioned. Its decent vs warriors, rogues and hunters, classes you will often meet in arena games. With good gear (4 parts vengefull) an average rogue runs on around 80% dodge with ghostly+evasion. That means that you can easily tank a warrior for a short time and hunter pets nearly do zero damage to you for the duration.

I am sure pvp will be alot easier with a decent spec, I didn't looked at your gear, but having at least 250 resilience and 10.000 hp is a must! Be sure to aim for that as fast as possible.

 

Darkchani

Are you kidding ? with it you resist 15% of the frost nova, water elemental freeze, priest fear, warlock howl of terror, warrior fear, thunderclap, piercing howl, demo shout, consecrate...
All things that can take you out of stealth when they know you are there but cant quite see you, and for some its even more important as resisting a priest's fear or where resisting a nova means you wont eat some 4k shatter combo damage.

 

Triton

Now that Cheat Death is doing 90% damage reduction instead of 99%, is anyone considering taking the points out of Cheat Death and moving them into Enveloping Shadows for their Shadowstep build? Something like 20/0/41.. is the tradeoff worth it in 2s and 3s Arena?

 

• LodeRunner

I'm actually more tempted by Mutilate but a) I only have ZA daggers and b) I'd miss having openers too much.

 

Vanadi

I still think cheat death is worth it more then Enveloping shadows though.

You are probably better off with something like this:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents

Although you will have to ask yourself if the loss of poison dispel resistance and 2% attack power is worth 15% avoidance versus aoe abilities.

Especially in 3v3 I can see not taking it being dangerous.

 

Smertrios

I'm an advocate of taking both and skipping 5/5 vile poisons. I run cleave in 3's, and with a shadow priest in 2's...keeping wound on isn't very vital to our success, and I've never had a problem being kited.

I feel that my current spec is superior for burst/cleave teams because of your ability to resist so many abilities that are designed to counter burst/cleave teams (particularly novas).

Pats suck.

 

Stienz

hmm, you got a point there, never thought of it like that. But still, its not that usefull.

 

Sepulchritude

Long time lurker, first time poster. I picked up some of the new 2.4 rep vendor blue-quality PVP gear yesterday for the rogue alt, and am a bit unsure as to how I should socket it. I've got a pretty good handle on socketing for PVE (thanks in large part to the Roguecraft 101 thread in the class mechanics forum), and while it's been touched upon in this thread, I can't seem to find any definitive answers as to how to properly gem for the various PVP specs, primarily mutilate and ShS. ShS seems like it would favor straight AGI stacking as much a possibly (Delicate Living Ruby in the red sockets, Glinting Noble Topaz in the yellows), given the bonuses from Deadliness and Sinister Calling, but looking at a few armory profiles, I still see a lot of 41+ subtlety rogues with AP and crit gems in their gear. Mutilate I'm even less sure of, whether it would be better to go for straight AGI or for +crit/AP. Combat I assume would gem similarly to PVE, but stacking more AGI and less +hit.

I'm also still torn as to meta gems, and which benefit which specs more. RED is still appealing for its offensive stats, but the Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond is tempting with the snare resist and crit. There's always the stun resist from Powerful Earthstorm Diamond, too, though I'm currently leaning more towards one of the others. I'll be respeccing the rogue for PVP soon, as soon as I finish up some of my skipped quests, so any advice is much appreciated. I apologize if this has been covered before, but after searching and reading up, I'm still not 100% sure.

 

Jakani

Since this is your first pvp set, you'll probably need to stack stam and resilience first. Once you hit 10k health and 300 resilience, you can start looking at socketing and enchanting offensively.

When you reach that point though, I socket [Delicate Living Ruby] in all red sockets, and [Wicked Noble Topaz] in yellows. They're both excellent gems for all pvp specs.

As for meta gems, [Swift Skyfire Diamond] is great for Shadowstep and HARP builds. [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] is great for combat builds (though Swift Skyfire works well also), and especially valuable if you plan to PvE with your helm as well. [Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] is great for mutilate, with the +crit and extra snare resist to stack with Fleet Footed.

 

Sepulchritude

Thanks for the reply. That gives me a clearer picture of what I should be aiming for. I've seen the 10k health/300 res numbers before, though I was planning on letting that come naturally with additional gear (offset honor pieces, accesories, etc), mainly because i hate socketing gems that I know will be getting replaced shortly. I suppose talasite is cheap enough though, so I could afford to stick a few stam/res gems in the yellow sockets. I hasn't really considered the SSD before, figuring I'd just slap one of the run speed enchants on my boots if I ended up with a build lacking Fleet Footed. Looking over things now, though, I can see how the 5% snare resist wouldn't make a huge impact on its own, without Fleet Footed and Surefooted stacking with it.

I'm still weighing the pros and cons of the various builds, so I'm not sure what exactly I'll end up with, but it sounds like I can go ahead and gem the red and yellow sockets at least, and pop in the appropriate meta/swap out the talasites when the time comes. I was mutilate for a good portion of 60-70, and it would be fun to try that again in a PVP setting, but I haven't tried out deep subtlety before, so that could be an interesting experience as well. Also, the only decent dagger I have at the moment is the [Emerald Ripper] off of Moroes, so I'd have to pick up a second dagger to make Mutilate viable. The fact that daggers pretty much suck for any other build makes that proposition a bit off-putting.

Decisions, decisions. Anyway, thanks again.

 

Sorcerer

Havent played Muti on live beside TTR yet, but i have spent quite some time on TTR testing muti.

I tried different geming for standard 41/20 muti build ranging from pure 8agi and 4crit/8AP to 8hit and 4hit/4agi.
I must say i liked hit much more. My white damage skyrocket with around 130 hit rating while keeping slice and dice + expose. Poison application was much smoother also. I know such amount of hit doesnt benefit to any of my special attacks but it was perfonal preference.

Meta for muti i would say 12crit/5% snare resist works best.

 

TrickBlades

I've found that the best rogues on my server run 20/0/41 and run with MH fist for mace, either is fine, just get something SLOW with a HIGH top end, and then get OH dagger, the faster the better.

 

Stienz

Why does nobody uses the 12 agi and 3% crit damage meta? Its awesome for your damage in pvp.

 

• LodeRunner

No, it's awesome for your damage in PvE. Frankly it sucks in comparison with other choices for PvP. PvP metas tend to be more utilitarian, and help you stay on your target. For non-mutilate builds, most people will opt to put Surefooted on their boots leaving them without any form of runspeed. Therefore the logical choice is to gem with a [Swift Skyfire Diamond]. Mutilate builds have a built-in runspeed, and because they lack Shadowstep's mobility they will probably try to stack even more snare resistance and will use Surefooted and an [Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond]. Quite frankly, the RED fucking sucks for PvP because of resilience.

 

Hildegard

With Mutilate I still use the 12 agility / 3% crit damage meta socket. I also use 5/5 Lethality and Renataki at the moment. I am still testing, but the results are quite awesome until now. But we start leveling the team and are still around 1700, so no hard facts up until now.

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde

http://forscherliga.wikia.com/wiki/Hildegard

 

Grunge

As Mutilate you really can't afford to not use [Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] coupled with surefooted it's a huge mobility aid.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

• LodeRunner

Yes well, at 1700 you could probably get away with ungemmed gear and a Shadowstep Dagger build. Isn't 5/5 Lethality like a 2% overall damage increase?

 

pocki

Commenting on 48/13/0 You don't want to lose Dual wield without getting Opportunity. Putting 4 pts into imp apply poison won't help your shivs hit anymore, it's master poisoner that's the ticket imo.

Anyways this is what I am trying out now. 45/3/13 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft I don't know how the sub talents would play strong into 5's if your rogue can already land sap and blinds fine, but ghostly strike does up your survivability against melee which is a rogues weakness imo. Dodging those melee cc's is what I am going for with ghostly strike. The issue with this build is I don't have enough hit rating (no Precision) to get 5% hit so my special attacks land. I am at 3% atm with 48 hit rating.