Chasing a druid, while being chased by a warrior

I came to a very weird idea to use. When being disarmed I switch the offhand to a 0,9 DPS dagger with crippling poison and try to perform a "Jumpshot-Shiv". Even after some practising this goes wrong more often than it works out, but I'm getting better at it. The idea is to use one Global Cooldown to snare the warrior, without granting him rage, but keep following the druid. I am completly unsure, if this is a good idea after all, but it seems to work on paper quite well.

It should work like this:
- Warrior disarms me
- I chase the druid
- Warrior is on my back
- Weapon switch to a 0,9 DPS dagger with crippling poison
- Then I shiv the druid and take a look that he will keep on running straight ahead (you have to guess here)
- Then jump, turn in the air, shiv the warrior, turn back
- Switch offhand weapon back
- Shiv the druid

The downsides are:
- losing stamina due to the weapon switch
- high chance of failure
- possibly making everyone laugh at you once you try to explain what you are doing

The point is:
- Snaring the warrior without giving him rage, while staying on the druid

I don't know why you need to switch to a different weapon to accomplish this. What irritates me more than anything about attempting similar maneuvers is the fact that Shiv adds a combo point, so you're basically Shivving and then doing a 1 point Slice and Dice. Warrior/Druid is pretty much a solid counter to Disc Priest/Rogue. That being said, there are things you and your Priest can do to piss off the Warrior.

In an ideal world, against a non Undead Warrior, you might start off with a sap which he will break with Berserker Rage. Your priest, knowing this will happen, starts to cast Mind Control. Now Berserker Rage is used, and the Warrior will likely use his trinket to get out of MC. This is especially true in Blade's Edge. If he uses his trinket then he has to eat the first fear or blue Death Wish when he doesn't want to. IF he blows Death Wish, you've got your evasion timers to live through it, or you can just blind/sap him. The point through all of this is to try and kill the Druid. Obviously things almost never work this smoothly, and this team will kill you more often than not. At least it's something to try.

The idea is to give him the least rage possible. And normally warriors chasing a rogue are pretty much rage starved.

Another idea would be to attempt an autoattack und hope for luck.

I'm sorry I cannot shed any light on the warrior/druid situation, but I have heard that some have had luck fearing the druid to trinket, then pulling a blind/mind control or vanish sap/fear combo while killing the warrior with adrenaline rush and the priest helping as much as possible.

Anyway what I would really like some advice on is this:

I've decided that once season 4 hits I'm gonna go get some Brutal Daggers and get myself a mutilate build. Now while that's pretty inconsequential, what I need you to help me with is pick specifically which mutilate build to use. The build is mostly going to be for a Rogue/Priest combo in 2v2, and 3v3 will be Mage/Rogue/Dpriest or possibly a dual melee setup or something, this hasn't quite been settled. But I want the mutilate build that would perform the better in those situations.

I've messed around with some 49/0/12, 41/13/7, 43/0/18 and the usual poison build with 54/0/7. But I can't seem to find out where the hugest tradeoff is. I'm thinking at least imp sap would be a nice thing to have, but I don't know how - for example - serrated blades weights up against the talents in poison, and whether it's a waste going through initiative for it when swimming in Combo Points already.

Any advice to shed some light on my doubt is welcome, but preferably from people with over 2k rating as that is where I am at atm and need to know how to possibly get higher.

what is considered the best meta gem for a shadowstep rogue in arena? I'm about to craft my x11 goggles and want to make sure I gem properly.

[Swift Skyfire Diamond] is what I see most Shadowstep rogues with.

Is mutilate a preferred spec for 2v2 with a disc priest partner? I don't play with a rogue, but I was just curious if the subtlety tree was less popular in 2v2.

According to Arena junkies, a mutilate build is the best to team up with a disc priest. Plus poisons give a good extra edge over druid teams who spam dispel, what with druids being one of the generally tough classes to meet when relying on poisons and mana drains, and possibly fears they will run away from.

Edit: Though, it is one of the less popular specs, due to the fact you have to be behind your enemy, and with too high latency that is a hell.

I play with a disc priest, we can usually hold 2100 or so as ShS on BG9, the momment i spec as mutilate, i suddenly become warrior bait, and just get trashed by any melee team that targets me. Which is what most will do the moment they see me with a dagger.

The only way I found to beat the Druid/Warr combo with a Mutilate Rogue/Dpriest is to go on the Warrior and keep Imp EA and SnD up as much as possible, while the Priest dispels HoTs and Abolish Poison. In order to gain some seconds I found useful to gouge the warrior to let him use Berserk Rage and then fear him when the BR was finished.

I had a 41/20 build with 5/5 dodge and sometimes 3/5 parry (I respec every weekend, so I have done many tests), to improve my survavibilty against melee classes.

I always found tougher matches against good Druid/Hunter and Druid/Warlock, I had problems against team that can spam CC and snares.

With full raid gear and a warglaive you shouldn't be specing mutilate anyway. You can trash war/dru with that kind of gear as Shadowstep.

No, not really. You focus the warrior, with 2 evasions, ghostly strike, 2 vanishes you can absolutely eat a warrior up. It's not just the Warglaives, it's insane amounts of attack power and agility, and still very solid hp. And that's just in Disc Priest / ShS rogue, Spriest/Rogue when the rogue is in full PvE gear is insane.

Focusing a ShS rogue while being coupled with a priest is the whole point of the combo, everyone knows you CANNOT leave a priest unguarded. The rogue will be eating the warrior up as long as cooldowns last while the druid will be forced to stand and cast heals in LOS, eating burns.

I wear as much PvE gear as possible in 2v2, but I'm casual and only do 10 mans, I know how much stronger I will be as ShS/Disc once our badge vendor comes out and I manage to buy the new goggle recipe from Sunwell raiders.

I'd argue that going 12agi/3critdmg and Cat's swiftness is superior, unless you're gimped in hit. Then again I'm looking at it from a PvE gear point of view. I can understand that full pvp gear rogues prefer surefooted.

As Tower said, it's not just the Warglaives, it's the 2.2k ap unbuffed with 150-180hitrating and 36%+ crit, etc.
And what about haste? It was never about the haste, DST was good sure...when it didn't have a ICD, but now that it does, MoTB is much much superior to it (84ap x 1.1+20hit+a proc without ICD) imo.
Perhaps it's a playing style issue, since I've never had problems with warrior-druid.
Nuke warrior->priest keeps swp up (which is no small dmg considering what 1.6-1.8k healing?) and is ready to SWD when warrior gets low. And this is without the Warglaives.



As the engineering helms are 2nd best in slot I doubt many raiders would reroll for it (Especially with LW/Tailoring/BS as main profession, supplemented by JC or Enchanting), so I think they'll surface quite fast on the market.

There's also the new JC-only neck that's quite decent. However I'm uncertain if I would swap out s3(or later s4) neck for it as I'm already on the low end of the resilience.


Also for rogues who have access to Sunwell gear, Imho going for 4pc T6/4pc S3 is not the most efficient.
T6 Belt and Gloves are quite inferior due to the haste on them imo.

S3 Gloves-Shoulders for 2pc bonus (since shoulder option from Sunwell sucks anyway).

2PC T6 from Boots(Expertise, Hit, Crit!? yes plz)+Chest (or alternatively Boots+Belt if you have Bladed Chaos Tunic).
Another good thing is that you can splash a Shifting Shadowsong in the boots since in your "best of slot" gear you have 1 blue socket in T6 shoulders.
So as you need 2 for the metagem you can stick it in the boots which will give you 2 blues in "pvp" gear as well (both bladed chaos and t6 have a blue socket)

Wall of text crits!

I'd argue that going 12agi/3critdmg and Cat's swiftness is superior, unless you're gimped in hit. Then again I'm looking at it from a PvE gear point of view. I can understand why full pvp gear rogues would prefer surefooted.

As Tower said, it's not just the Warglaives, it's the 2.2k ap unbuffed with 150-180hitrating and 36%+ crit, etc.
And what about haste? It was never about the haste, DST was good sure...when it didn't have a ICD, but now that it does, MoTB is much much superior to it (84ap x 1.1+20hit+a proc without ICD) imo.
Perhaps it's a playing style issue, since I've never had problems with warrior-druid.
Nuke warrior->priest keeps swp up (which is no small dmg considering what 1.6-1.8k healing?) and is ready to SWD when warrior gets low. And this is without the Warglaives.



As the engineering helms are 2nd best in slot I doubt many raiders would reroll for it (Especially with LW/Tailoring/BS as main profession, supplemented by JC or Enchanting), so I think they'll surface quite fast on the market.

There's also the new JC-only neck that's quite decent. However I'm uncertain if I would swap out s3(or later s4) neck for it as I'm already on the low end of the resilience.


Also for rogues who have access to Sunwell gear, Imho going for 4pc T6/4pc S3 is not the most efficient.
T6 Belt and Gloves are quite inferior due to the haste on them.

S3 Gloves-Shoulders for 2pc bonus (since shoulder option from Sunwell sucks anyway).

2PC T6 from Boots(Expertise, Hit, Crit!? yes plz)+Chest (or alternatively Boots+Belt if you have Bladed Chaos Tunic).
Another good thing is that you can splash a Shifting Shadowsong in the boots since in your "best of slot" gear you have 1 blue socket in T6 shoulders.
So as you need 2 for the metagem you can stick it in the boots which will give you 2 blues in "pvp" gear as well (both bladed chaos and t6 have a blue socket)

Wall of text crits!

I dont know what how good BG you are at but mine is very good, and i haven't met that stupid druid/war combos to focus rogue all the time especially during evasion.

No matter of gear, you cant burst a warrior (hello shield) or outdps/outheal this combo doing it by any gimmick if the other side have at least some brain. You can try to mana burn, good luck with that vs 'just' good teams. Odds are 99% in favor of them. Warglaives will not change this with ShS even with pve gear.
Yes i won vs many of such teams, but they did many little mistakes where if your team do little mistakes vs even inferior druid/war you stand no chance.

I will not say mutitate is better vs this combo as i never aquired daggers to actually try but right now im on a good way making my 2nd rogue. Coming from TTR perspective where i spent some time playing muti, i love it for the reasons why i hate shs and vice versa and this might change the odds losing to druid/war to some extent.

BG boasting aside, you can click my ratings and see I'm a Gladiator from S2 and 2100+ in all 3 brackets in s3. You're registered as a mage with 1650 2v2 rating telling me I must not be fighting good teams and that dru/war has a 99% favored win? You're just wrong. You're honestly another reason why this thread is near shit anymore.

If you had comprehended my post about focusing a rogue vs focusing a priest when a dru/war matchup is fighting priest/rogue then you'd understand the point of being Shadowstep and wearing a ton of PvE gear is huge. If they focus the rogue, the priest can do some damage, dispelling and mana-burning – all the while the rogue has a ton of damage avoidance with high agility and high dodge rate. If they focus the priest, the rogue is free to do near raid damage dps as he's sitting in almost a full set of PvE gear + weapons. If you force a warrior into defensive with a shield, that's a goddamn good thing, particularly if you're just eating away at him in PvE gear. It's all about pressuring the warrior and tethering the druid, for fears and burns. It's an uphill battle, but one that increases in favor of the rogue/priest as the rogue gathers more and more end game PvE gear.

Basicly, I'm looking to get back to a decent rating again and start taking PvP a bit more seriously than before. In season 1 I achieved 1800-1900s with a shaman partner with a combat dagger spec (not as painful back then as some may think) but I realise PvP has come a long way since then and things work differently, hence why I'm seeking advice.

I'm currently in a guild working on Felmyst, so I have a complete set of Tier 6 gear, and my main PvP switch-outs would be Medalion of Alliance, Honor neck / belt / bracers / boots / badge cloak / S3 gloves and swapping my mainhand weapon for Syphon of the Nathrezim.

Now the main problem I'm having, is deciding whether I should wear some crappy Season 1 stuff to get the 35 resilience set-bonus, or stick to my T6 pieces and maintain a high amount of damage out-put.
I play with a paladin, so considering I seem to get targeted a lot, would it be worth me sticking with my PvE gear at the cost of higher damage intake?

Another thing I was considering to help me achieve more, was a set-up change, my paladin team mate is full PvE holy specced ( how that differs from PvP holy spec I'm not sure) and using only 2 pieces of S3, the rest T6. I've spoken to some of the more experianced guys on my server and they have highly recomended using a Priest or Druid, considering my gear situation, what would be the better of these options; and what play-style do these two healer classes require me to take while in 2v2?

Another thing to add regarding set-up, I feel drawn towards playing with a shadow priest, but realise with such low heal gain, the penalty for mistakes is higher, and you cannot recover as easily as one would with a healer.

I'm currently at 1703 rating while using a full sword combat build, but I think think I'll be making the switch to ShS from now on and taking a more controlled stance on the fight, since generally I only feel I've had success with combat due to being able to burst down under-geared players in the lower ratings, this won't really be possible in 1900+ where I'm aiming for.

More like the priest avoids getting intercepted -> hamstring, los's cyclones and roots while your rogue beats on the warrior you fear the druid ( cyclone range nerf = win, its hard for a druid to cyclone effectively if he has to risk fear -> mana burn every time he tries ), force a trinket, blind/sap/fear while you both pump dps into the warrior and he drops during ~30 seconds of cc? Maybe you just need to learn to avoid cc and los the warrior effectively, and if a rogue with prep is getting cyclone/root spammed you guys are even worse than you sound.

So of course you'll kill the warrior, double vanish, los, cloak, etc. all to stop the rogue from pumping out the damage, in PvE gear this isn't necessarily an easy win, but the odds definitely aren't against you if you play well. And why the hell would you EVER try to get on the druid? If a druid EVER dies to a rogue before a priest dies to a warrior... well, I'm going to assume you're talking about 1500 bracket players, so meh.

Warrior+druid is impossible with shaman-rogue if the rogue is mutilate. With imp hamstring I can't even move half of the time, let alone catch a druid with 40% runspeed. What to do against this? I got back to shadowstep already, mutilate is alot of damage and great fun, but you get nuked and kited all the time.

I've been running rogue/druid for a few weeks now. Maybe we're just horrible, but we can't get higher than 1820 with my druid either NS+Moonkin or cookie-cutter resto. Warrior/healer and Warlock/healer don't feel like pushovers. Warlock/healer feels impossible if their healer is very good. Most of the times we've won against that comp is when they seem to play poorly or if we simply outgear them.

And then there's 2-dps, which my druid just can't seem to live through. I try my best to vanish and cloak through their ccs, but even just 1 mistake and my druid dies and it's, at best, a 1v1. (We've won a few games where my druid is the first to go down.)

2-dps (any 2-dps, even like disc priest+xyz with the priest dpsing) almost feels like a counter comp. Can someone please tell me what we're doing wrong?

I find the whole Rogue PvP situation sort of a cruel twist of fate. My main is my Warrior, as is linked in my profile. That's what I raid on and do arenas on half the time. Therefore, the Warrior has full access to full PvE and PvP gear. Warriors, however, are quite content to be in mostly PvP gear for arenas.

I leveled my Rogue pretty much specifically as a PvP toy. Mainly I wanted him to have the Taskmaster hat from Season 2 when that came out. Since then I've found I enjoy Rogue arena play as much as Warrior arena play, but my Rogue does not and probably will never have access to good PvE gear. The bane of my Disc Priest/ShS 2v2 team is, of course, Warrior/Druid. The best way to beat this team is for me to stack heavy PvE gear and burn the Warrior down. Sadly that's just not feasible in my situation. I'm not really sure where this is going other than me considering my options.

The only consistent team I can get together for my Rogue is my 2v2. We started a PMR team and played like 15 games 3 weeks ago and haven't played since, and it's downright hellish to try and schedule 5v5. When my Disc Priest goes Shadow (and he really really really wants to go Shadow) we just end up losing huge amounts of points. Maybe it's because I'm shadowstep with PvP gear? Maybe I need to pick up daggers and go Mutilate with all this PvP gear. I guess I'm trying to figure out where to go from here.

IMO the main benefit of ShS step is self-sufficiency, but if you're running with a Priest partner who can dispel you ShS isn't a necessity. I'm currently playing with a Shadow Priest with my Mut Rogue and it can work but I'm not taking 2s seriously at all right now (under 1700, but I was over 2k in S1). If I were to take 2s seriously I'd go combat maces.

Mut however is very viable in 3s in a PMR setup.