I have to admit i have the same issue even where no human or warlock team is invovled and i put it down to my connection (I am always at about 400ms as i live in the UK and play on US servers). How's your connection? In terms of getting the jump I actually find i have more joy if i sprint then hammer CS instead of sap (depsite the apparent shorter scope of range) - but then you dont get your sap advantage. I have considered speccing out of heightened senses because of this (i.e. because i expect to lose the advantage against other rogues who are sub spec.......). Alternatively seeing the guy and mouse clicking to target works (when the macro just doesnt seem to trigger). My macro is much like yours but without the ShS.....perhaps it is all a cruel joke to use that macro and we should just /cast sap :P

Well, there is an alternative macro that is out there as well:

#showtooltip Sap
/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast Sap

The difference here is you can acquire your target without worry about them being in range already for the Sap, but I'm not really sure if this will change your results at all. If I had to guess I'd say it ultimately is just a matter of latency.

I'll try exactly what you're saying, with the different macro.

Is there a way to see latency? My UI mods remove the little green bar that usually displays it. Is there a command or any UI mods I can get?

Also, could any of this be related to running UI mods? I run pitbull, Proximo, Quartz, and a few other mods.. could they be slowing me down and causing me to miss saps?


Also, if any of this doesn't help, would it be better to spec out of heightened sense, drop the cloak stealth enchant and just go for getting into combat first?


My arena partner says it's a matter of experience, but I'm starting to not believe that. Even when I'm in nagrand, across the rope, and staring at the rope (so they have to come directly infront of me), i often still don't see them until they're right on top of me.

Are you jumping in stealth a lot? I've found that it makes a massive difference to stay on the ground and shake your camera left and right rapidly while holding right click and spamming the sap/opener button as you move. My understanding is that with the way the net code works, your position does not update with the server while you are in the air, and changing directions forces position updates to the server constantly (more updates to the server than moving in a straight line). If your position is updating with the server more often, you should be harder to catch in stealth.

This effect is easiest to observe by kiting a mob - note how you can sometimes jump past a mob aggro'd on you that is running directly toward you without being melee attacked. Also note how you can frequently gouge a mob running directly at you without it ever touching you by shaking your camera back and forth or strafing as you get into melee range, but that same mob will hit you more often before the gouge lands if you just run straight. At very low latencies you might have more trouble jumping through a mob and an easier time gouging a mob running straight at you without getting hit, but it still helps.

Edit: if it comes down to it, you can always pre-vanish as soon as you see the other player or when you expect them to be getting close and you should have a pretty easy time getting the jump.

Also, checked into it, my latency is 220-240 or so.... Is that too high?

I've known this for years with running into the base in WSG and not getting demounted, but I've never thought about how it applied to stealth wars. Thanks for the tip.

Well, after doing some research, I found the below link... Took my ping from 220-240 down to 70-100

TCP IP No Delay - Drop Ping By 100-150 | ZugGaming

I think this will help a lot, combined with the above tips...

For those of you who are less computer savvy or simply prefer not to modify the Windows registry directly, there's a program that will make the same changes mentioned in that article automatically for you. I've used it personally and it's pretty simple and does exactly as advertised.

Faster Ping | World of Warcraft Tools | Curse

This program can also reverse the changes it makes if you happen to experience any problems after making the modifications. Personally I've never experienced problems and no one I've ever talked to has either, but it's nice to be able to revert your settings just in case.

Hello.

I searched this thread for an answer to this, but didnt find any similar posts.

I'm wondering what flaws does ths build 0/20/41 have against the cookie cutter 20/0/41 shs build. Tell me am i missing anything? I would try this out, but not coming to wow for a while, so i need your opinion, before spending that gold to walk into something really stupid ... Ah im playing with druid.

Minus side:
1) Relentless strikes loss
2) Vile poisons (but this has been argued over in this thread for a while now)

Plus side:
1) Longer gouge for heals interrupt
2) Imp kick for silence. Used in mix with KS and gouge can be a perfect interrupt chain to let no heals through.
3) imp sprint no need to explain
4) extra hit - combined with pve gear i think there is no preist who can resist your stuns then.
5) 30 more dam to offhand - im hoping this would make up the loss of malice and 2pt lethality.

Plus hit doesn't work to offset +resist talents. Additionally we are now hit capped on our specials versus everything but mages.

Relentless + ruthlessness is just a phenomenal talent combo -- approximately 16% more energy efficiency if you just hemo'd. Ruthlessness minimizes situations where you're stuck at zero CP when you need a quick interrupt or rupture. I think that's pretty much the reason you don't see many SS/Combat rogues.

I have no doubt that combat could be a reasonable secondary spec if you were the sole damage dealer, for example if you were Rogue/Resto Druid/Disc Priest playing against R/M/P.

This sounds like a great download. I PvP with around 290ms to 320ms and it's quite annoying at times. Can anybody substantiate the download's effectiveness?

Also, how do are most people going to be gemming their new S4 armor? I'm really torn between the 10agility and 20attack power epic gems. I see the advantage to both, especially with 10 Agility and Sinister Calling, but 20attack power is still 20 attack power. Thoughts?

Can somebody that is good with macros take a look at this and see if I've done this right please? I want a macro that I can be a mouseover, or blind the person I'm targeting, or blind a focus target.

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus, exists] Blind; blind;
/cast [modifier:alt, target=focus] blind

You'll need to be a bit more specific than that. What exactly do you want it to do for each modifier key?

Basically, I want my hotkey for Blind to Blind my mouseover target or Blind my actual target if I don't have a mouseover. Also, I want to be able to Blind a focus target if I have one set.

/cast [modifier:alt,target=focus,harm] [target=mouseover,harm] [harm] Blind

Cool, thanks.

So what does the "harm" represent in the macro; what does it do?

A bit nitpicky, but can lead to some unexpected macro behavior if you don't make the distinction: [noharm] is actually the opposite. [help] is a subset of [noharm] (all friendly units are "non harmful" units, but all "non harmful" units are not necessarily friendly).

a few stupid questions:

1) When you look at other rogue builds, how come you don't see too many take Sleight of Hand? It reduces critical strike by 1% per point, which is somewhat similar to around 40 resilience, yes?

2) I'm gonna pick up some Merciless Gladiator weapons when S4 comes out, should I pick Sword, Fist or Mace? Does it really matter? Is there really even a right answer? Should I go for gear first, or weapons? Considering I'm MHing Nexus Claw, I'm gonna probably guess Weapon is the much better choice

3) Suggestions for doing BG's effectively? I've just been doing whatever is on weekends, and on weekdays rotate between the 3, with AV always up. I plan to at the end of the month, turn in mass numbers of marks for Honor and keep whatever is left to buy stuff with.

4) I hear that +Agility gems are better than +AP gems due to Sinister Calling, and coupled with +Dodge/+Crit. When does it get better? When you use +10 agility vs +20 AP? What about +8 Agility vs +16 AP? Assuming S3 gear, with a mix of S4.

1) Sleight of Hand reduces crit chance, but not crit damage, which is arguably the more significant benefit of resilience. The talent also only works against physical damage, not spell damage. Sadly it's not all that good when you really look at the numbers. It's not terrible, and if you get it you'd probably take points out of Camouflage, so it's not too big of a deal.

2) Pick sword or mace, since you are Human and gain free expertise with them. With any other race, it doesn't matter at all. Weapons are generally considered the most important upgrade, unless you already have some good epic quality weapons.

3) I don't think there's any particularly "best" fashion for earning honor.

4) AP is better damage, but agility is not far behind and provides armor and dodge as well. There's really no "right" answer, it's just a matter of whether you think the defensive benefits of armor/dodge is worth the trade off. I think for most people, it is worth it.

I see some EJ thoughts on the recently leaked WotLK rogue talents on the PvE side but little discussion of the PvP aspects. I know, it's early, and clearly things will change, but I for one am quite excited by the opportunity to theorycraft on future talent builds.

A 51/20 or 53/0/18 build featuring Hunger for Blood (and skipping Cut to the Chase) seems like a strong contender for a top PvP build, but it seems vulnerable to training and kiting. In particular, it seems strong against melee (who can't bleed you and risk turn the tables with most of their abilities) and dots (particularly shadowpriests), and weak against mages and caster druids.

On the other side of the court we have Ambush/Backstab/Shadowdance builds, which feature extreme burst capability at the expense of sustained damage. Additionally, they maintain their current strengths against movement and training. If we look at current trends we see many 20/0/41 PvP builds that take these benefits despite the loss in DPS. Do we have enough information to guesstimate the DPS loss from x/x/5x builds relative to their equivalents in other trees?

Finally, as the number of talent points increase, the number of viable hybrid builds increases as well. Is there a build (like HARP) that doesn't hit the (very strong) 51 point talents, but offers strong ability combinations (like 11/29/31 maces?)

As written, it would seem that Devious Poisons would for the most part prevent your poisons from being removed, if you are attacking the healer. (That is to say, they remove your poison, only to get it reapplied) This would be a huge boon when attempting to keep wound and cripple up on a fleeing druid (without this talent, a fleeing druid is very difficult to catch with mutilate).

On the other hand, if you spec Deadly Brew and Devious Poisons, you might not be able to apply Instant Poisons (/Deadly) to your main hand, for fear of dotting a healer that you want to keep CC'd. For example, with Rogue/Mage against Warrior /Paladin, if you attack the warrior with Instant Poisons/Deadly Brew/Devious Poisons, then the Paladin can get deadly poison just by cleansing the warrior, preventing you from sheep/blind/sapping her.

If you're content to always attack a healer, Devious Poisons seems much much better than Vile Poisons.

Most Mutilate builds don't really go that deep into Sub at the moment. 61/0/10 would be better. You lose Rupture damage, Initiative, and 2/5 Mod, but you gain almost all the poison talents, and Imp Expose Armour.

Just realised Master Poisoner now reduces duration of poisons on you by 50% and Eviscerate damage being boosted a shitload. Turn the Tables doesn't seem that great either. You are less melee trainable, but it's no cheat death. 64/0/7 with the Evisercate points being moved to MoD if it turns it Evis still sucks.