Gank Spec is usually 31/0/30 or Shadowstep.

Can somebody please post a really good mace build stricty for PvP arena? I hve been reading this forum for a bit and might have missed any posts with actual builds. Thank you!!!

If possible please break down the build.

Depends on if you're going with a 2(3)dps in 2v2s or 3v3s; or if you're in a dps/healer setup. Pre-2.3 in a 2(3)dps, I'd go with 5/33/23. With a healer, I'd probably go 19/42 (or variant).

I went with 30/0/31 with a friend playing my brother's shaman alt. I find it works well for me because of the high % of warriors/healer teams we are running into in the 1800 bracket. Otherwise, it's not as good because the lack of imp sprint.

A mace spec is anything that takes the combat skill Mace Specialty. There are 2 common flavors at the moment, with a third coming in the next patch. In general there are a lot of directions you can take these builds, especially when choosing whether to get riposte or not. With the 2.3 changes, riposte will become even stronger, but so will some of your other options. Common flavors are:

Deep Combat Maces - this looks a lot like a PvE build with mace spec, but it often takes riposte, nerves of steel, and improved kick instead of any of the assassination poison talents. This version takes Riposte at the cost of imp. expose armor, imp. eviscerate, and weapon expertise (which will be useful in pvp in 2.3). WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

QR Combat Maces - this build focuses on getting to adrenaline rush in the combat tree as well as quick recovery in assassination. Here is one version that also takes seal of fate. I personally don't like this setup as I find seal of fate to be a bit weak in arenas (I usually take nerves of steel, another point of aggression and a bit more deflection), but a few of my friends who play higher end arena teams prefer this. WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

Hemo Maces - This spec will take advantage of prep+AR along with the new dirty deeds change. It's not as strong on live at the moment, but may be an up-and-coming spec.

I am AR/Hemo Maces on ptr and it's definately worth trying out. You can tell when Dirty Deeds kicks in for sure. I'm still on the fence if whether or not I can forego all of the Assassination goodies for Prep when this patch goes live.

My Druid partner (Taysir) and I have a few questions regarding target choice, and what to do when I'm forced onto the opposing team's DPS. Right now I'm specced Combat Mutilate, and our basic strategy is to DPS the healer while my Druid keeps us both alive.

We have more problems against teams like Hunter/Priest, Warlock/Priest, or Warlock/Druid, when I'm faced with a tough decision: do I get on the Priest and have my Druid try to evade Viper Sting as much as possible? Or, in the third example, do I get on the Druid when I have an opportunity and give the Warlock free reign, or do I try to minimize the Warlock's damage? I guess I don't really know how much I should expect from my partner in terms of his ability to avoid DOTs, Mana Burns, Viper Stings, and so on. We're trying to use frequent target switches to get their healer behind (Cyclone the DPS, hit the Healer, switch when Cyclone DR is up) but my Druid complains that it's a fragile balance, and often he feels that he needs to use Cyclone in order to minimize the incoming damage on me. Any tips, strategy or otherwise?

Also, as an aside: against Hunters and Warlocks, should we be killing the pet immediately?

Finally, I was thinking about picking up the Gladiator Maces and respeccing to 23/38 QR Combat. Is there another build (namely 16/45/0) that I should consider instead? Should I be using Expose Armor against opponents or should I invest those points into Improved Poisons? I also worry that switching to Maces would further diminish my burst ability, a relevant concern if our strategy of switching between targets to create an opportunity is the correct one. How do Mace Rogue/Druid combinations treat the above teams?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

My team is hovering between 1950-2000. We run lock/rog/dru and tend to play as a control team with elements of burst.

But recently, right around the 2000 mark, we keep running into war/shm/pld teams that just wreck us. We rely on the druid to control the warrior with Cyclone or Root + UA to bait the cleanse, and then good old fashioned kiting, backed up with a Deathcoil if our druid is pressured. It's not enough anymore, and our druid is dying early in many games.

I'm focusing on controlling the shaman during these fights (try for a sap on the pally or warrior if I can). Anyone have any tips on how to deal with warriors? Every time I get in a fight with one I lose and I'm not certain how I can help keep our healers alive without making it worse. I could stun and run, but that gives the warrior and awful lot of rage and 15s max later he's back on our healer only now he's more dangerous than ever. What am I doing wrong? What could I be doing more right?

Shiv crippling when he comes to hamstring you, kill poison cleansing totems(pretty sure you're probably doing this anyways), and that should allow your druid to kite effectively as long as your warlock is good about using Felhunter dispel to get the BoF.

Your druid shouldn't have much problem surviving the warrior. At what gear level are you? Druids take a huge leap in survivability once they get full pvp gear, moreso than other classes and healers I feel. Also keeping away from the shaman and having both you and the lock helping eachother out in locking him down is important since purge & grounding totem is what may be killing your healer, or atleast ooming him.


On a different note I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on the AR/Hemo spec, or hemo specs overall. I've played combat for a season now and I will go either hemo or mutilate in season 3 now that I finally have 3 teams that are a good fit for a rogue to play with.

Anyone have experience with both hemo & muti that could give their opinion on which works best in 4dps?

We play druid/rogue/afflock/afflock/spriest. I am generally not a target, especially since the spriest is undergeared compared to the rest.

Thanks in advance.

I haven't played Mut but I think the conventional wisdom is that it is more about control than burst, whereas ar/prep should be really good burst. So I would say that it depends on the role that you typically play.

Here's a question: What finishers do you guys try to use, when and why?

Personally, I try to drop a 3+CP KS every time its up.

I try to keep a 3+ rupture up anytime I'm on a warrior.

I try to always have at least 1 point on a mage/hunter (or any other kiter) for the DT if they get away from me.

I typically try to use evis only if the target is almost dead or I can't figure out what else to do (part of why I'm asking this question)

I'm not sure when is the best time to drop an expose armor. I know that its best to use on a low armor target, and when I do, and I get the chance to burn on a clothy, I can really see the difference. The problem, of course, is that mages for instance are so hard to stay on and burn I'm not sure when or if this is a good use of the CPs. E.g drop the EA and then run around after the mage for 5 seconds while the EA ticks off, not doing anything.

When do other people use particular finishers and why?

Mutilate is by far best for 4DPS. +9% kidney shot and Quick Recovery/Fleetfooted to be more independent is really valuable when you're buffing a MB/SW and 2xShadowburn burst. They will always, always trinket the first one, so be prepared for that. Mace stuns were very nice, and non-positional attacks are handy, but you're right in that basically nobody pays attention to you.

Your first focus will be to get 5 wound up. Your second focus is to pin down the target so he's not being disruptive(if it's a warrior, keeping him away from the spriest with stuns/snares, if it's a shaman interrupting heals/Chain Lightning). Your third is damage.

Pretty much what I figured, and the chief reason I feel hemo is a contender. Because while it's slower on poisons, it's better at keeping the target pinned. And in the first 90 seconds it has vastly better survivability & mobility. I'm playing both right now trying to decide.

Question:

Is a 2 healer 3's team with a rogue viable (resto shaman/paladin)? If so, what would be the ideal spec? I'm leaning towards combat maces, but prep/ar also seems like a good idea. Mutilate combat would probably be ideal, but from what I gather it is not a very good spec for someone with an overseas ping.

Does anyone run a team like this, and if so are they successful?

I've seen a few that runs a setup that from the looks of it is made to counter 4 dps teams using rogue/hunter to kill off cloth. One setup I've seen discussed a bit is resto shammy/resto druid/frostmage/rogue/hunter. Your weakness is ofcourse no dispels and a normal 2345 has a very favourable matchup against it.

Haven't played it or even against it much so can't comment further.

My 3v3 team is currently running a Restodruid/lock/rogue setup. We are in the 1900 bracket at the moment and want to improve our strategies so we can further our rating.

What spec should our warlock be? UA or SL?
I am currently AR/PREP specc'd.
Our resto druid has very low res but heals very well with his BT gear.

What are some good strategies we should incorporate? We have two stealties and a warlock and I feel that we can get a positional advantage if played correctly.

In terms of CC, what should all of us do as a team to maximize CC efficiency?

Any other advice would greatly be appreciated! Thanks!

UA is a druid+rogue setup, SL is a druid+warrior setup.

As a rogue, there's not much in the way of CC. The strength of UA is DOTing multiple targets that cannot be dispelled. Have your druid and lock work together to UA+root targets.

Your warlocks needs to be a superstar with his pet, eating polymorph off of you etc.

How can a combat rogue incorporate the new Fleet Footed? Has this been determined to be the most significant new talent in post-patch roguedom? Here is a (very) rough version:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I guess you could go to 3 in combat potency and 1 in cold blood. Anyway, is it worth all this hacking around with a solid combat build?

You don't, really. You can do the bastardized 2x/3x specs that you see some rogues using to get Quick Recovery now, but you're also coughing up the primary reasons that Combat Maces is so good(extremely high sustained damage with CPot and unavoidable finishers).

Because as a rogue playing with a warlock, when you are focused and snared your ability to dps a target of your choosing goes way down. An unfocused rogue is much more dangerous than a focused one, this obviously differs than say a warrior who's damage increases when focused. So basically you are running a team that punishes the offense for trying to focus your druid (he can kite and los easily and heal instantly), what you need is a 2dps makeup that punishes the offense for focusing one or the other, and that comes from having your lock be UA.

Your opponents basically have to make a decision of whether to focus you or your lock. Now in terms of damage and CC, an unfocused UA lock is MUCH more dangerous to a team than an unfocused rogue, this allows you to perform your role of lockdown much more freely. An unfocused SL/SL lock isn't really that dangerous in comparison, Felguard would even be better than SL/SL for your team.

This is why Druid/SLock/Warrior is so damn powerful. You take the 2 best 2v2 teams, druid/lock and druid/war and you just scrub them together for a 3v3 team, where every person you try to focus is incredibly durable, and in the case of the warrior, will actually do more damage. And I don't think I have to tell you playing druid/Slock/rogue vs druid/Slock/warrior you are going to lose every time given equal skill and gear.

You basically have to play heavy control until people use up their trinkets. Go for the opening sap and then immediately pressure someone, trying to bait the trinket. Have the lock fear and tongues and the druid root and cyclone as their opening moves against the non-focus target as well. Once those trinkets have been burned your basic strategy should be to control 2 players and kill one, through a combination of soft and hard CC. A warrior chasing around the druid and being kited is soft cc. A fearlocked paladin is hard cc.

But unlike pure CC teams both the lock and the rogue are capable of heavy damage, sustained and burst. Once the healer is CC'd and has no trinket, you use your damage against something that can be focused (i.e. not a mage or paladin) and destroy them. You have to be ready to shift targets at the drop of a hat.

I still get a lot of mileage out of Blind and Gouge though it takes some really good execution on both my and the lock's part. I find that Blind is best used very early in the fight, often against whoever you sap once they trinket.

We don't play outlast so we don't use drain mana. I don't think the mana drain is strong enough to compete with a bloodlusted priest. Instead we start with CC and then switch to burst. Try to get your druid to pick up feral charge for extra disruption, have your lock become a master of using focus macros and stress how damn good CoTongues is, and make a mind numbing shiv macro yourself.

One thing to note is that I play mutilate for the burst damage but have been considering going maces for more control. To me lock/dru/rog is a control team first and everything else second.

I thought I should let you know that this worked out pretty well. Our strat against war/pld/shm is now for the rogue to control the shaman and his totems (deny WF and BL if possible) and try to sap the warrior > all. Shiv crippling on if the warrior gets close but let the druid bring him to you, not vice versa.

The warlock puts his pet and tongues on the paladin and maybe some dots if he's bored, but mostly works at keeping the warrior off of the druid via deathcoil and fear. Once the trinket is gone the druid is able to kite the warrior pretty easily.

If the warrior switches to the rogue, the druid's job is to throw a cyclone or root and then the rogue uses a snare break to get away and returns to pressuring the shaman. Once the warrior is controlled the warlock dots up the shaman and works on controlling the paladin with the druid's help. Rooting the warrior and cycloning the paladin at the same time allows for a lot of unhampered time on the shaman. Once the shaman is down you swap to the paladin and just never let him cast another spell while keeping the warrior as CC'd as possible.

It's still a rough fight but I feel like it's winnable now.

I think a lot of people used to either Mutilate or CP Maces who are planning on spec'ing AR/Prep in 2.3 will be ultimately disappointed.

On my old server, I played primarily 5s, with 3s & 2s to pass time (all rated about 2000). I transferred to a new server to raid, and have been forced to only do 2s & 3s due to lower interest and not enough "connections." I do 2's with a UA Lock or Shadow Priest, and 3s with them, although we were playing with a Resto Druid till he quit. We're rated low-mid 2100s, depending on what teams we play. Every time I've spec'd AR/Prep Maces, I've had a few matchups where it does very, very well, but a lot of other ones where it is frustrating beyond belief. The idea that it is a burst build is a misconception in my experience... what it is is an anti-kiting build that allows you to maintain solid pressure for about a minute. After you blow your 2 AR, the DPS is absolutely terrible and you can't lockdown very well at all. Even for your period of 2 ARs, your DPS isn't as good as a Mutilate or CP Rogue's. The biggest indication I had of this was playing several mirror matches against another (equally rated) Mutilate Rogue/SPriest team, and losing all due to losing the DPS race. I couldn't kill their Priest before they killed mine, and I couldn't kill the Rogue before they killed my Priest. For this reason, I'm strongly looking at switching to Mutilate for all 3 brackets for Season 3. I feel that it is the build that suffers least in drawn out games while still retaining a fair bit of mobility (assuming Fleet Footed + Surefooted + anti-snare meta). The main reason I haven't switched yet is due to Azgalor being a dick, and myself not wanting to spend points on weapons this close to the end of the season.

I'm wondering if anyone else is leaving the much-hyped AR/Prep, and for what.