I finally got my char copied to PTR and tried out against Pallies myself. I dont know what kind of pallies you met, but the ret ones, stacked in s4, are unbeatable for me ateast. Maybe I suck, but got killed usually during one of his stun. As he gets loose, i get stunned, trinket that, try to vanish, but he gets me out of it with Divine Storm and during that time im usually dead already. Tried the other escaping ways like blind, sprint. I got a trinket, repetance to an answer. So it seemes, I have to kill him during the stunlock, or im dead meat.

Warriors truly are much easier now.

I think this might be in part because the way I geared in pvp, I wear about 230 resilience, the rest I stack with pve gear, with 3 items with atk power procs. Normally they were forced to bubble after my initial cs->mut->kid->mut. Cloak-sprint-vanish as a counter to their bubble worked nearly 100% for me. After their bubble same open, yes you can get the cs in if your fast even with a Consecration on the ground.

If you do happen to find yourself in the spot where they survive your stunlock, mutilate at least I found has enough energy to dismantle after kid->mut, so you can stall them, + evasion, + cloak again if it's back up. Also they have a dead zone like warriors, it's just not in the same spot, it's further out, because they still are short range casters with melee.

I think resilience might play a role in this, because during the 70-74 world pvp grind, I would purposely target plate to see how they fair in the new system, and it really seemed to me that resilience wasn't working as it did on live at 70. 80 it does seem to help more, but my experience even in their seemed to have basically the same outcomes.

Anyway, just my insight on what I've found thus far in beta pvp.

Does this Ret Paladin not have HoJ or Repentance or something

They can cast these stunned? I felt your sentence needed another letter and made it bold for you.

This is my experience in beta pvp, care to contribute with yours?

You do realize that paladins can hand of piety themselves out of stuns if they are specc'd appropriately?

Uh, yeah. Basically, if you don't have a PvP trinket equipped or managed to luck out and CloS the HoJ, you're dead.

Any Ret Paladin that's not an idiot is going to just bubble as you open and wreck you, even with Evasion.

From what I was getting while levelling, Hemo hits about as hard as a wet noodle. Also, Enveloping Shadow reduces damage done of AoE abilities instead of avoiding the completely so it's pretty much useless.

Always had trinket equipped, (or to be more exact am human and wear wsc as my secondary trinket) they bubble I escaped. Restart the fight, so , don't know what to tell you besides cloak+sprint+vanish works on most of them.

Also are we talking about sub spec? Cause I'm talking about mutilate. I have 0 experience fighting them as sub, I was always at least 41 points in assassination (and have been pvp as mutilate for a long time now)

Okay, so you escape. Unless your new opening kills them inside CS->KS, they'll HoJ and kill you. Maybe my gear was shit (S4 with almost 0 pve gear), but I don't see any Rogue killing a Paladin before he kills you, even pre-poison nerf. Are you saying that your Rogue never actually had to sit in a HoJ? Or you actually lived through it?

The point is that a healer can counter this burst quite well. Paladins are quite easy to control with sap/blind and most anything a healer can offer except snares and stuns. Mutilate is no duelling spec in my opinion - it is build around having some kind of support. I still think that Mutilate will need a frost mage or Death Knight or Healing paladin to really start working. That is of course only a first impression, I didn't test the latest changes so things may have changed.

Uhhh, someone asked about 1v1 so that's what I'm addressing.

Not really seeing how a healer counteracts the Paladin rapetrain, especially with any kind of interrupt/CC on the healer from the Paladin's partner. I'm not saying this to whine about Ret Paladins, just not getting how some of you are coming to your conclusions.

And with the insane amout of mana they get from judgement of the wise, the insane amount of spell power they get from Sheat of Light, the new avenging wrath, the new 10 seconds repetence, and the instant flash of light they get when they crit. They pretty much counter everything a rogue can do, and seem unbeatable agains that class if played right on a 1x1.

Has anyone tried a build like this 43/5/23 It seems to me that the bottom of the assassination tree doesn't provide much for pvp, beyond the ability to eat bleeds. This build offers prep and the +20% burst to finish a target off from Dirty Deeds.

Alternates would be picking up deadened nerves/quick recovery for more survivablitity.

41/5/23 +2 is considered by many the top rogue spec at 80. There are disagreements over the relative worth of certain talents. Seal Fate, Deadened Nerves, Focused Attacks, Master Poisoner, Murder, and Kidney Shot are all talents that are sometimes taken or sometimes not. Quick Recovery should always be taken if you are playing with a healer.

Most prefer Setup over Initiative, but that is by no means universal.

Anyone else finding druids to be even more insane now? Last night I was hanging with a few gladiator friends. We had 2 rogues, 1 warrior, and 1 ret pally. None of us could get our resto-druid below 50% mana or 75% health. I didn't think that the changes to tree armor were so large, but it was just insane. The druid would sit in tree form (not so slow anymore, eh) with rejeuve/lifebloom/abolish up and just let us die to thorns. We went so far as to test out full T6 in pve spec and he was still able to just tank the damage without breaking a sweat. Even the insane (and it is insane) ret pally dps couldn't kill him. Anyone else running into totally unkillable resto druids?

I think there are some people out there like me who are still experimenting and looking for a decent Subtlety Sword/Mace/Fist build. Frankly I just don't want to jump on the Mutilate bandwagon just yet.

So referring to:
I find it to be a bit off, not only for not taking Shadow Dance as it's been already mentioned but also for picking up Master of Subtlety which I don't find to be that strong with a non-dagger build.
Personally I'd go with something like this 0/10/51 with the following possible variations:

• 3/3 moved from Setup to Initiative depending on taste
• 0/2 Filthy Tricks to 2/3 Setup or Initiative if for example doing 2v2 with a double dps team

EDIT:
After playing this all day yesterday I found it pretty decent. It doesn't have that insane burst damage that other classes or Mutilate specs have but it's a much more consistent damage output than the old Hemo builds thanks to the increased hit and offhand damage and of course it has crazy survivability, even greater than before thanks to the new cooldown tweaks and the 5 min Prep.
The only major downside is Shadow Dance which I found to be very situational and almost never used, maybe I'm still not confortable with it's mechanic yet. Then again there's nothing else that would warrant that point in the other two threes either. Riposte would be a possible pick but I frankly don't like it's new look.
Level 80 might change things though as a 0/21/50 spec with Blade Flurry and a [Glyph of Preparation] could be quite viable.

I tried stealthing to Ogrimmar to complete a Fishing Achievement. Turns out the guards are level 75 now and Vanish doesn't drop combat with them. Two guards are the maximum I can kill solo and I have to use every single cooldown.

Has anyone tried something similar with success ?

Hey guys. Got a few questions reguarding spec. Ive been subt/fists a really long time, and recently (pre patch) decided to give assassin/daggers a go. Ive speced pretty much all assassin with a little in combat. Now that patch is out, im still assassin, and enjoying it. Does anyone have any recomended set ups for assassin build? Ive dug around on this thread, but its hard to tell whats recent and relavent b/c of the number of pages. Also, just glancing at the combat tree. Does that seem like it would do better in an arena setting?

Is there anything kind of gems I should stack to help out an assasin build? I crit decently nice, but the way some talk, my crits seem low. I can coldblood/ ambush for about 3k. Should I be hitting for more then that? If so, what would help in the way of gear.

You should be gemming for more crit. Your gear is pretty limiting, so grinding out some BG's might not be a bad idea if you don't mind replacing it when LK comes out.

I specced 45/5/11, as you can see in my profile. I'll probably replace Ruthlessness with Imp Evis and possibly pick up Focused Attacks, at least at 70.

Armory is slightly out of date. Ive got 3/5 vengful and rest is pvp related gear. im sitting on 360 resil. Tho i did just go daggers recently so im grinding the last bit of honor i need for merci off hand today...

Should i take down some of that pvp gear and bring in my pve gear? Is mongoose still the standard for rogues? I use to do mongoose and executioner but i heard exe didnt do much good. Truth in this?

I actually earn the points needed to buy the newest arena gear, but me and my lock partner are having major trouble getting past 1550. Mayb its just our battle group? But we come up against people that far outgear us and knock us back down into the 1400's its rather frustrating. And to top it off, i see people with worse gear than me rollin around with the rating to get the brutal helm. Perhapse i need to try a new partner combo.


I did some skirmishes today, and im crushing people that i get ahold of. But people that are ontop of there trinket know just when to break out of my 5point ks. forcing me to burn my cloak of shadows just to survive long enough to get back on them. If they have a solid healer i have no chance. Im typically attacking cheapshot - mutilate - mutilate - kidneyshot - mutilate - vanish - repeat. Depending if they break my stuns, or there partner cc's me off, i work in a rupture just to help sustain some dmg flow while im not able to attack.

anyone have some macros made up to help speed things up? I had a couple for when i was subt hemo. But i havent spent enough time with this spec to learn how to optimize my button clicking into macros.

Rogue/Lock is a great combo. In that setup the rogue usually provides the majority of the damage while the lock spreads CC and tanks (15k hp SL/SL locks are tough to kill). There are two things to do to really improve your team. Fist read up on your comp on arenajunkies (although since the last patch the world has flipped over), and practice dueling. Trinketing a 5pt KS is usually good news for you. If they use their trinket on the KS you can immediately Blind->sap->fear them for 20-30 seconds of cc. That should be plenty of time to kill their partner. If you find that you are getting taken apart consistently, then you really need to spend some time dueling. Even after the last patch rogues are a solid 1v1 class and should be able to beat anyone out there (with the possible exception of ret pallies depending on their skill).

How do you beat frost mages as Mutilate rogue ? Or hunters ?