Nitz

I wouldn't call this a nerf honestly. Innervate directly benefits of this, and it is more mana gained when we are shifting.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

That's pretty much a buff for any time you don't get your innervate dispelled, especially with the new intensity.

It's a slight nerf against teams with offensive dispelling, and where you're in the five second rule over 60% (I think 60%) of the time.

It's a massive buff in situations where you are in bear a lot of the time (against mana drain teams for example)

 

Nitz

LoSing a dispeller for 20 seconds is not that hard if you have some trash buffs on you (and a 3 LB stack !). I speak mainly for 2v2 and 3v3 though, as I don't have any 5v5 experience.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

I wish they'd do a nice even split of spirit and mp5 to stretch the item budget, but that might be a bit much to ask

 

hirisov

Interesting change for sure. My main problem with it is that balance-wise taht it can be a buff in 2v2 depending on your partner and the opponent team's setup, but i see it will almost certainly a nerf in 5v5 where it is basically impossible to get out of five second rule (unless you are focused and forced to bearform lot of the time, and even if yes then mana wouldn't be a problem anyway).

Actually i like most changes as it is a refreshment to learn them and adapt them, and it is true for this change also. What i was thinking about is how it affects our itemization if it goes live. I think now Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon - Items - World of Warcraft will be a very viable choice even over an epic pvp trinket, and bangle which was always good now will be even better. I'm actually thinking on replace my pvp medallion+insignia for these 2.

The other question (it it goes live) how to handle gems? Is it better to stack mp5 in gems and enchants to cover the lack of it on gear, or better to stay 9heal 4spirit to maximize spirit? I'd think mp5 stacking should be better gem wise, but would be interested in what you think guys.

 

Currylaksa

Using Resto4Life as reference:
Considering that we will be in the 5SR often and our innervates not dispelled (somehow...), the valuation of spirit is that 1mp5 will be roughly around 3spi. Theoretically a nerf, although running away to drink is our forte rather than actual raw regen.

 

Nitz

I'll be looking forward switching some points of Natural Perfection to Living Spirit, as a Bangle user (45% regen while casting !).

 

CasT

Removed due to inaccuraccy.

Do not matter how much you play, you will never get the carrot.

 

Kalidin

How the hell you guys beat with spriest/lock with druid/Warr their burst is just evil +silience
(i play warrior) we 2k rating

 

Xantcha

Your numbers are no where near correct.

You do understand that the 37.5 extra mp5 your adding onto your spirit "mp5" is base regen - and that wearing 0 spirit gear will still give me access to that.

The number's in your spreadsheet don't even follow the formulaes you list.

A total of 173 Spirit will give 173*0.555 MP5 out of combat, or a total of 96.015MP5 out of combat.
With 30% Intensity next patch it becomes 28.8 mp5 IN combat. Making it a significant nerf (less than 50% of mp5 value from S2).

 

Zure

Try to D stance + Spell reflect the MB+SW combo, as that's what gives them their burst.

Keep both hamstrung so they can't get to the druid for fears or silence.

Intervene and get out of LoS when the silence --> spell lock does hit.

 

Zure

You, in turn, completely left out innervate and living spirit.

The S3 gear had 69 mp5 before the change. Let's make that our baseline.

With no living spirit, you get 96.0 mp5 OO5SR as you mentioned. With living spirit, you get 110.4.

In combat you get: 28.8 or 33.1 w LS.

Net gaining requires 60% OO5FR without LS, 44% with LS.

Innervate gets an extra 1536 mana from 173 spirit, 1767 with LS.

In a 4 minute fight, using a full length innervate, this means you net gain mana with 16% OO5SR, 2.5% OO5SR.

I would label this a clear buff for those who can avoid having innervate dispelled.

 

• sadris

3 classes can dispel. 2 of those 3 (Priests, Ele Shaman) are over-represented in high-end arena. In high-end arena, with all buffs viewable all the time, things get dispelled quickly. Therefore it is a significant nerf.

 

Zure

Except it doesn't take a full duration innervate to make spirit out perform Mp5 with a reasonable OO5SR time. Realistically, you can protect innervate a fair bit through range/LoS and trash buffs.

Spirit regen also scales nicely with Kings and Bangle (which in turn is even better now that living spirit is more attractive).

 

Caal

Are people really considering dumping more points into Resto for the next patch? I suppose it depends on group makeup, but I'm absolutely positively giving 30 deep in balance a hard look. If I can still use low ranks of regrowth in order to get off a 2.5 starfire, look out. I'll most definitely be gemming for the focus gem if I decide to go deep balance as well. Really now, we're talking about having 700+ spell damage with just a weapon swap next patch. That sounds absolutely ridiculous to me.

 

Zure

I would probably just consider picking up insect swarm (1 extra point). IS and MF both get great coefficients compared to their time cost.

Feral charge is invaluable.

 

Mex

I think Moonkin is a very viable spec in 5v5 teams, however I don't really see a DPS / Healer hybrid of X/0/Y working too well. If you wanted to do that, I think 40/0/21 is the best bet, with a heavy focus on DPS and CC, and the ability to quickly throw a NS+HT or heal for a few seconds while the main healer is CC'd.

That being said, I think I'll still play my druid as 8/11/42, and will most likely switch to 13/11/37 once my gear gets good enough to drop Empowered Rejuvenation. The one thing bothering me is whether to take living spirit or not, and if so, at what cost? Improved Regrowth and Nature's Focus both seem like viable candidates. I don't have enough resilience to drop points in Natural Perfection yet, and at the moment I'm leaning towards Imp Regrowth. I suppose with more experience in 2.3 I'll be able to make a better call, but right now it's a toss up between more reliable regrowth whilst being hit, a more powerful regrowth, or better mana regen.

 

Xantcha

Yes, I may have misrepresented my points to emphasize the issue. =)

1. Living Spirit.
Resto PvP druids are very low on talent points, I would find it highly unlikely many druids will have 3/3 Living Spirit now, and even after the next patch when spirit is buffed and made available on our items.

2. Innervate.
Classes that can dispel.
Hunter. (next patch)
Priest.
Shaman.
Warlock.
Warrior (shield slam lol j/k).

Realistically if you can LoS innervates and get out of combat, - then you are most likely in a situation where you can drink. Cover buffs for innervate cost mana (and gcds) and may only get you an extra tick vs spam dispels.

In a 4 minute fight the new spirit compared to the current mp5 (even though its itemised higher) barely breaks even with a very low out of 5SR (with a full duration innervate and Living Spirit). MP5 would still be superior from that point onward until a second innervate.

This is my opinion with my playstyle, whereas I feel as though I am never out of the 5SR, either aggressively pre-hotting or cc/interrupting.

 

Caal

Yup, that'll be the one question mark for me. I think a change in my playstyle and a little shakeup in how we run our lineup will result in some very interesting potential.

I've been thinking about running something similar to this since WSVG Louisville, but I never had enough +healing to suppliment the other two softies in my group. Come next patch, the sky may be the limit.

 

Herrera

When they see a warrior only, they _know_ there's a druid, they _expect_ you to come out and in sight to heal your partner. They are saving Spell Lock and Silence and Coil only for you. Confuse them. Unstealth, mount up, and let them know you're there. They will target you and I'm 100% sure they will start the attacking. Run to the other side of the map mounted while one of them is chasing you. Your warrior can then charge/cept the SP and start bashing him. If warlock is chasing you still, you will most likely win as you're in range of cycloning lock without fearing of Silence and your warrior isn't taking much damage. NS your warrior and start stacking blooms/rejuv. This has worked 90% of the time for me. We reached 2k rating.

 

◊ Greenexile

I recently joined up with a warrior after getting to the mid 1700s with a rogue and a warlock. Given the way warriors (especially mace spec) seem to tear me apart, I really expected my new team to be easy mode. Unfortunately, we are having trouble getting past 1700 and ended up tonight finishing in the mid 1600s. It is probably just lack of skill on my behalf, or perhaps our horrible 600ms pings - but I'd really appreciate some advice.

Here is what I tend to do:

Warrior charges out and goes after the squishiest target, generally I come out of stealth with a regrowth + lifebloom on the war and then cyclone the other target. Depending on the makeup we are facing, the problems begin here:

2 caster dps: Always involves a warlock, which is able to dot us both up and fear me. After I use my first trinket, I'm under incredible pressure. I cant seem to keep myself up and also cyclone the warlock (preventing more dps/fears). So generally I try to out heal the damage and eventually I get smashed. If its a shadowpriest/warlock, they can keep me silenced in the time it takes to get my war from 80%-0% and if its a mage we do a little bit better, but it means they can keep the warrior sheeped in the time it takes to smash me.

2 dps with rogue: Wow. Welcome to stunsville. I thought that we would eat up any team with a rogue, but we just dont seem to be able to. Perhaps it is my ping, but with stuns the rogue can lock me down even while the warrior is beating on him. We lost twice to the same mage/rogue team where the rogue opened up on the warrior getting him to 75%, then he came onto me and locked me down with stuns/kicking while the mage finished my war off.

My problem basically stems from not being able to cope with cc+massive damage being dished out. I seem to be able to kite well or heal well or cc well - but I've not mastered the art of doing all these things at once. It's more than a little frustrating being so squishy with no 'uh oh' abilities other than a trinket and NS. Has anyone any advice when it comes to how to LoS, how to keep the warrior up and keep a target cc'd all at the same time? Other than l2p of course

 

Humbaba

Your problems look like they're positioning related. You shouldn't be standing around in the lock's line of sight long enough to get feared. Pop out from your hiding place to heal your warrior, but generally stay out of LoS. If you do get silenced feral charge and bash a target so you can buy some time for it to wear off. Then get off a lifebloom and get out of dodge.

You shouldn't be getting hit by the rogue at all, and when you are, you should go bear and feral charge away. You have piercing howl, hamstring, roots, nature's grasp, feral charge, bash and mace stuns to get you space. It doesn't all fall on you. Make sure your warrior is snaring, too. Cyclone the mage and abuse line of sight while your warrior kills the rogue. If your warrior is getting chain sheeped, have him grab the shadow sight buff to keep the poly off him long enough to kill the rogue.

edit:
I played a warlock/paladin combo last night with my druid and a buddy's warrior. We blew up the felhunter early on with sweeping strikes and whirlwind and a quick ms to finish it and I sat to drink 5 times over the course of the fight. It was pretty amusing to fight for that long with the absolute certainty that we'd win because my HoTs + emergency NS would let me drink when their paladin couldn't slack off for fear of losing his lock.

 

Kaber

You need support. Kiting as a druid requires that the enemey warrior or rogue is snared, rooted, feared, etc. If you get stun-locked, have your warlock Death Coil the rogue and start fearing. If he burns CloS, the warrior can intercept. Save your trinket for the Kidney shot. If you don't know what the debuff icon looks like, check for it on wowhead or thottbot.

I do have to say I went up against 1 team where I had absolutely no recourse (I run lock/war/druid as well): it was rogue/war/priest. I got caught in stealth even with the felhunter up, as soon as the rogue found me they called a focus fire, i got intercept charged, kidneyshot, trinketed that and was immediately feared and restunned. I died in less than 8 seconds and there was nothing I could have done about it. My warrior and lock both blew their instant fears back to back to catch the guys that trinketed, but the warrior had his resistance up, the dwarf priest had fear ward, and the rogue used CloS. I couldn't even get free long enough to shift into bear form.

 

Draegus

So I know this thread has had many conversations and questions and such but I just wanted to ask a quick one here.

I often run with a resto druid in both 2v2 and 3v3 and have been having some problems. In 2v2 obviously lock/spriest and lock/rogue give us trouble and ive heard some opinions about what to do but still working on it, this isnt my current question though.

The main question I have is 3v3. I either run a warrior/pally/ele sham. Which really hasn't had trouble with much.

Or the other combo we run is warrior/resto druid/lock and that is where we are running into hard teams. Most 3 dps teams give us trouble but the team that is the most problematic that we ran into a lot is rogue/frost mage/ and holy priest. We beat that combination sometimes but have a lot of trouble with no reliable dispel for the frost mage spells and the burst/slowing/stunning they can do is really rough. Any suggestions for what to do would be helpful, thanks!