[Druid] The Resto PVP Thread - Page 13

Currylaksa · 10/30/07, 10:45 PM

Unless you are dealing with gay DoT teams, getting crit on focus fire is almost a certainty.

Of course everything still pales in comparison to bear->bear shifts and free 500+ spellpower. I can't wait.

doogless · 10/31/07, 12:01 AM

The Nature's Perfection proc will also probably be a useful dispel buffer when you're being focus-fired.

• sadris · 10/31/07, 12:05 AM

I would hope it wouldn't be magical based =(

doogless · 10/31/07, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by sadris

I would hope it wouldn't be magical based =(

Well, assuming it is magic (which I'd say is a fair assumption, Blessed Resilience - a similar talent - is), it will be affected by Subtlety, and given the choice of dispelling Nature's Perfection or Rejuv, I'm pretty sure I'd take Nature's Perfection being dispelled almost every time.

edit: according to the most recent post at mmo-champion, Nature's Perfection (and the Priest talent) have been changed to 1/3/5% reduction in damage after a crit, stacking up to 3 times, and lasting 6 seconds.

Caal · 10/31/07, 10:51 AM

My initial reaction to the NP buff is that it's totally ridiculous. Way over the top and unnecessary. I really didn't think Druids needed a buff in the toughness department. Yeah, go ahead and lol at me getting dumped on in Deep's video.

Then I think about 5v5 and how absolutely awful the class is in any setup that has anything to do with the Druid(of course I think 4dps is a complete joke). I don't know if this board has a poster history, if there is you can go back quite a few months and see what I posted about the viability of Druids in 5's. My main complaint was being focused every match by competent players. I was pretty furious about the nerfing of Bear survivability early in s1. At that point I couldn't figure out how to buff Druids for 5's without breaking them in PvE content. This might be just the perfect thing. Now I don't know if Druids will be viable yet in 5's, it seems pretty unlikely, but this is a step in the right direction.

(AGAIN I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT LOLDPS TEAMS. DONT MENTION IT)

Silver_Surfer · 10/31/07, 11:49 AM

I'm relatively new to being resto. In fact, for 2 years I have been feral only. Recently I have been convinced to respec resto for our 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 teams. I'm finding that I have a LOT to learn about being resto. I realize I have a lot of tools at our disposal and I am finding it hard to remember to use them. What I am looking for basically is any suggestions for a new resto druid as far as winning in the arena.

First let me explain that I have about 1300 healing and no S1 or S2 arena gear. Here's my profile:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Yes, I realize my gear is sub par. But there are two really big issues I am dealing with. In 2v2 I can hold my own just fine except in the case where there's a burn group or two high dps (rogue/warrior/hunter). In fact, I can outheal most damage that comes to me. My partner is a pretty decent Hunter (yes, I know not ideal but he does quite well). When I was feral we hung around 1685 as our highest rating. Since I've gone resto - and during the learning process - we've dropped down to 1550. I need to know how to handle the typical lock/shadow priest and warrior/healer combo.

I haven't done any 5v5 as resto yet so the biggest problem is in 3v3 where the minute I pop out of stealth I am focus fired. Half the battle I am either stunned, silenced or CC'd in some way. I try switching forms to get out of melee range and they burn one of my teammates down.

What are some good strategies for me to keep in mind in 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5? I've read some of them here but perhaps looking at my spec and gear (keeping in mind I upgrade as often as I can) someone can enlighten me on how I can do the best job I can as a resto druid. I'm finding that sometimes even a NS or swiftmend isn't enough to keep a teammate alive in 3v3 when they're being focus fired.

◊ Lord BEEF · 10/31/07, 11:54 AM

I'm not sure what your definition of 'viable' is. While I don't think we could get 2500 or anything, our team at 2246, ranked 25th in the battlegroup (sure its not bg9, but it's a big battlegroup). We use a tri healer double warrior setup and it works quite well, though admittedly I don't think we'd be nearly as highly rated if 4dps teams weren't so popular. Tri healer counters quite a lot of 4dps teams.

Most 5v5 teams rely on coordinating their crowd control, silences, and interrupts. We gained about 150 points when we changed our strategy from "lets see what they have, try to purge some buffs off, and figure out who we'll focus". All this really did is let the other team work out their poly/fear rotations.

Our new strategy is "click sweeping strikes gogogogo" and charge in, forcing them to be purely reactive with their crowd control. This takes a lot of the pressure off of me. I still blow up fairly easily though, and I think this change will probably be just enough to keep me up in situations where I would otherwise have died.

Silver_Surfer · 10/31/07, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

I'm not sure what your definition of 'viable' is. While I don't think we could get 2500 or anything, our team at 2246, ranked 25th in the battlegroup (sure its not bg9, but it's a big battlegroup). We use a tri healer double warrior setup and it works quite well, though admittedly I don't think we'd be nearly as highly rated if 4dps teams weren't so popular. Tri healer counters quite a lot of 4dps teams.

Most 5v5 teams rely on coordinating their crowd control, silences, and interrupts. We gained about 150 points when we changed our strategy from "lets see what they have, try to purge some buffs off, and figure out who we'll focus". All this really did is let the other team work out their poly/fear rotations.

Our new strategy is "click sweeping strikes gogogogo" and charge in, forcing them to be purely reactive with their crowd control. This takes a lot of the pressure off of me. I still blow up fairly easily though, and I think this change will probably be just enough to keep me up in situations where I would otherwise have died.

As far as my spec and gear go (realizing my resilience s*cks), should I be able to help my 2v2 and 3v3 team get to 2000 or is that unreasonable? Keeping in mind:

2v2 Team: Resto Druid/Dwarf Hunter
3v3 Team: Resto Druid/Dwarf Hunter/NE Warrior/NE Shadow Priest/Human Paladin

Even my hunter is telling me to 2v2 with a Warrior.

◊ Lord BEEF · 10/31/07, 12:10 PM

Your profile is incomplete (fix that) so I can't see your armory page to see specifics.

I can't speak for 3v3 since I'm really not very experienced with it (got to like 1900 in season 1 but didn't really do anything in season 2)

Druid/hunter 2v2 right now is pretty terrible, but in 2.3 I think it has potential. You lack real burst damage, and have no offensive dispel so you essentially need to drain to win which is why hunters are typically paired with priests. In 2.3 you can coordinate cyclones and roots with aimed shot to put a lot more pressure on enemy healers, and getting an offensive dispel will help to get rid of nasties like blessing of freedom and bloodlust.

Silver_Surfer · 10/31/07, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

Your profile is incomplete (fix that) so I can't see your armory page to see specifics.

I can't speak for 3v3 since I'm really not very experienced with it (got to like 1900 in season 1 but didn't really do anything in season 2)

Druid/hunter 2v2 right now is pretty terrible, but in 2.3 I think it has potential. You lack real burst damage, and have no offensive dispel so you essentially need to drain to win which is why hunters are typically paired with priests. In 2.3 you can coordinate cyclones and roots with aimed shot to put a lot more pressure on enemy healers, and getting an offensive dispel will help to get rid of nasties like blessing of freedom and bloodlust.

I linked my profile in my first message but I'll update my profile here with the link.

Yeah our hunter tries to drain mana a lot, but he uses all the tools in his disposal. We have beaten a warrior/healer group before but the fight took about 10 minutes. In fact, all of our fights are extremely long ones. We do not have burst damage. When I was feral and he had TBW we could burst down teams fast but never got above 1685 or so. We're really trying to get into the 2000 range. Otherwise getting gear is going to take forever, especially season 3 gear which requires a 2000 rating for the shoulders.

Note on my gear! The armory hasn't updated but yesterday I got the BG Kodohide belt and a ring from Headless Horseman that brings my health up to 8000 even and healing around 1335 or so.

Caal · 10/31/07, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

I'm not sure what your definition of 'viable' is. While I don't think we could get 2500 or anything, our team at 2246, ranked 25th in the battlegroup (sure its not bg9, but it's a big battlegroup). We use a tri healer double warrior setup and it works quite well, though admittedly I don't think we'd be nearly as highly rated if 4dps teams weren't so popular. Tri healer counters quite a lot of 4dps teams.

Most 5v5 teams rely on coordinating their crowd control, silences, and interrupts. We gained about 150 points when we changed our strategy from "lets see what they have, try to purge some buffs off, and figure out who we'll focus". All this really did is let the other team work out their poly/fear rotations.

Our new strategy is "click sweeping strikes gogogogo" and charge in, forcing them to be purely reactive with their crowd control. This takes a lot of the pressure off of me. I still blow up fairly easily though, and I think this change will probably be just enough to keep me up in situations where I would otherwise have died.

Viable being one of the 5 classes you're going to potentially choose in 5v5. You know, everything but Rogues and Druids.

Aphyrax · 10/31/07, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

Your profile is incomplete (fix that) so I can't see your armory page to see specifics.

I can't speak for 3v3 since I'm really not very experienced with it (got to like 1900 in season 1 but didn't really do anything in season 2)

Druid/hunter 2v2 right now is pretty terrible, but in 2.3 I think it has potential. You lack real burst damage, and have no offensive dispel so you essentially need to drain to win which is why hunters are typically paired with priests. In 2.3 you can coordinate cyclones and roots with aimed shot to put a lot more pressure on enemy healers, and getting an offensive dispel will help to get rid of nasties like blessing of freedom and bloodlust.

A well-played druid/hunter is stronger than you think. The only problem is that you will rarely win in under 10 minutes. Druid/warrior vs druid/hunter is one of the most annoying matchups ever.

Silver_Surfer · 10/31/07, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by Aphyrax

A well-played druid/hunter is stronger than you think. The only problem is that you will rarely win in under 10 minutes. Druid/warrior vs druid/hunter is one of the most annoying matchups ever.

Yeah, definitely. It becomes "Who's mana will last the most?" (Which is why I have the arena water).

How do we handle "burn" teams such as LOCK/PRIEST or worse, LOCK/MAGE? Mage would sheep/ice my hunter, he'd trinket, get sheeped/iced again. I'd get feared, trinket, feared, silenced, feared - dead. The whole time we're dotted up and I have to wait for silence to wear off. Even worse when my innverate is spell stealed.

What is the best strategy for our makeup? My profile should be working now.

Rej · 10/31/07, 4:08 PM

What's the general feel of Resto Druids in 5v5? Do they manage to make use of kiting, or do they suffer from heavy burns?

Right now we have a Feral Druid and a Resto Shaman. The Shaman wants to go Elemental, so the Druid is going Resto. Does this seem like a wise switch?

Silver_Surfer · 10/31/07, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Rej

What's the general feel of Resto Druids in 5v5? Do they manage to make use of kiting, or do they suffer from heavy burns?

What is "druid" kiting. I still don't understand that.

Right now we have a Feral Druid and a Resto Shaman. The Shaman wants to go Elemental, so the Druid is going Resto. Does this seem like a wise switch?

That's a better setup than feral druid/resto shaman IMHO.

Rej · 10/31/07, 4:29 PM

Well, I worry that Druids under pressure will not be able to do much except bear up - which kills a large bulk of their utility. We can't have him become little more than a large fuzzy punching bag, and our group does not boast any CC outside of what the Druid provides. Does this become a major problem in 5v5, or do Druids perform admirably by constantly staying on the move and shifting out to toss heals.

Silver_Surfer · 10/31/07, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rej

Well, I worry that Druids under pressure will not be able to do much except bear up - which kills a large bulk of their utility. We can't have him become little more than a large fuzzy punching bag, and our group does not boast any CC outside of what the Druid provides. Does this become a major problem in 5v5, or do Druids perform admirably by constantly staying on the move and shifting out to toss heals.

Resto Druids are abundant in 2v2 and 3v3 but not so much in 5v5. I'm just now starting to 5v5 with my Resto Druid so I'll let you know what happens. In 2v2 we can usually outlast the mana of any other healer unless they are teamed with a Warrior (which as you know, when they land MS as they so often do, your healing needs to double to keep your teammate alive). What I have learned is to run often, toss hots as much as possible and cyclone/roots is your friend.

One thing I have learned being Resto in 2v2 and 3v3 is "Be the last resto druid to pop out of stealth." If I pop out first the other Druid cyclones me and ruins my healing. If I trinket out then I have a chance to feral charge, bash, cyclone him and then throw hots on my teammate (or swiftmend if I have to).

The Druid has to use LOS to his advantage while not being out of LOS to toss heals and CC when necessary.

Aciara · 10/31/07, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rej

Well, I worry that Druids under pressure will not be able to do much except bear up - which kills a large bulk of their utility. We can't have him become little more than a large fuzzy punching bag, and our group does not boast any CC outside of what the Druid provides. Does this become a major problem in 5v5, or do Druids perform admirably by constantly staying on the move and shifting out to toss heals.

I play in a ele shaman/frost mage/ms warrior/holy paladin/resto druid 5on5 team (or used to, our ele shaman quit) and we tried subbing out the ele or the mage for a rogue which didn't work at all. The big strongpoint of a resto druid is his (or her for that matter) cc with the added abbility to always keep lifeblooms/reju running on players who're taking damage. Together with the mage we were able to shut down 2 targets nearly indefinently (if the opposing team went for our ele shaman, if they didn't he was able to really open up

), and I think if we'd add a warlock instead of that shaman in s3 we'd be able to cc up to 3 people, effectivly making 1 warrior teams losing their MS letting us win the mana war by default. When I had to play without a second CCler we had really big problems because the enemy warrior was open at least 50% of the time and I was pressured and often couldn't really be an asset at all (normally the mage and I would help each other out).

I think the only real options as a druid in 5on5 would be 4 dps as a healer or a 2-3 CC team as cyclone then really begins to shine.

Mex · 10/31/07, 7:54 PM

I'm considering playing moonkin in 5s, and resto in 2s/3s. The problem is of course that it means having to get twice the gear. Still, I really can't see resto working with our current 5s team.

Basically we're all fresh 70s - warrior, ele shaman, shadow priest, and druid. We also have a well geared holy pally playing with us. With 0 resilience, 7000 health, and blue weapons, we decided to try me as moonkin for a 4dps 5s team, which was a lot more successful than our original 3dps effort.

Ultimately though, once S3 hits I'm going to buy all the honour gear, as well as 1-2 pieces of S3 then quickly get a couple of pieces of S1 with more honour points to hit 4 piece bonus (correct me if I'm wrong and that doesn't work). This'll give me a pretty pro resto set. At this point (and assuming my team mates have been able to get similar upgrades), does resto as a second healer in a 3dps team become more viable? Or would I be better off grinding another 150k honour for full S1 moonkin and S3 honour loots?

Aciara · 10/31/07, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mex

I'm considering playing moonkin in 5s, and resto in 2s/3s. The problem is of course that it means having to get twice the gear. Still, I really can't see resto working with our current 5s team.

Basically we're all fresh 70s - warrior, ele shaman, shadow priest, and druid. We also have a well geared holy pally playing with us. With 0 resilience, 7000 health, and blue weapons, we decided to try me as moonkin for a 4dps 5s team, which was a lot more successful than our original 3dps effort.

Ultimately though, once S3 hits I'm going to buy all the honour gear, as well as 1-2 pieces of S3 then quickly get a couple of pieces of S1 with more honour points to hit 4 piece bonus (correct me if I'm wrong and that doesn't work). This'll give me a pretty pro resto set. At this point (and assuming my team mates have been able to get similar upgrades), does resto as a second healer in a 3dps team become more viable? Or would I be better off grinding another 150k honour for full S1 moonkin and S3 honour loots?

Without 2nd real CC I think you'd be better off as a moonkin for 5on5, yes and your assumption that 3 s3 pieces + 1 s1 piece will lead to a 4 piece bonus is correct (which is a major buff imho).

Rej · 10/31/07, 8:26 PM

Yeah, there aren't many Druids in 5v5, so it's hard to say how well they perform. I'm just worried that he's going to get locked down in bearform quickly, and contribute very little to the fight. Was hoping for some more experienced Druids to comment.

◊ Lord BEEF · 10/31/07, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mex

This'll give me a pretty pro resto set. At this point (and assuming my team mates have been able to get similar upgrades), does resto as a second healer in a 3dps team become more viable? Or would I be better off grinding another 150k honour for full S1 moonkin and S3 honour loots?

I don't know of successful 3dps 5v5s with a resto druid. I suppose it's possible but generally you're better off with 4dps or tri healer if you're resto.

The bottom line being that you either need to survive when focused (with two other healers keeping you up) or you need to make it so when they try to focus you they die horribly (4dps).

Moonkin can work well in a two healer team. There's one team in particular (can't remember the name unfortunately) that just destroys our 5v5 consistantly that runs a moonkin, along with a resto shaman, holy paladin, warlock and warrior.

Currylaksa · 11/01/07, 2:40 AM

Resto druid's 5v5 viability is directly inverse to the popularity of 2345, because that setup punishes everything about druids - controlled burst/2D2O dispel/totems/freedom/sheep vs hots/root/cyclone/lackofdispel. It is not really a Blizzard balancing issue rather than the popularity of 2345 variants. Regardless of what buffs we get, as long as 2345 is here to stay, being the 2nd heal in a 3dps2heal is going to be difficult.

And... it looks like 2345 will be stronger next patch as elemental shamans got majorly buffed.