Quixotic

The only classes that can make use of PvE items efficiently are warriors and paladins. Typical "non targets". Healers to a certain extent can use a ring or a cloak, but that is purely lack of PvP itemization. This is all subject to change, when people realize you are in PvE gear and focus down your paladin after his bubble, with his 200 resilience.

The effect of PvE gear in 2-3 slots is not enough to warrant buffing everyone's gear when few guilds per battlegroup even have access to said gear. Besides, if you excel in all assets of the game, shouldn't you be rewarded with a minor increase in 2-3 slots?

 

glick

I guarantee you a competent team would realize Awake is in full t6 and destroy him.

 

Miaw

Watching the livestream from Blizzcon I heard something that caught my attention:

They'll be introducing a rating requirement for season 3 weapons (not the armors, by the sound of it). Meaning you'll need a certain rating to be able to buy/use the new weapons. The specific rating was not completely decided but I heard him mention 1900 as possible. Wether or not it matters if it's 2v2 or 5v5 was unclear.

 

Calantus

If they do that, whatever rating they choose you'd need to hover 100-200 points above it in order to reliably use the weapon. It would be very not fun getting knocked down below the threshold because you keep getting served up to your counters one week and then losing your weapons so it's harder to get back up.

I really hope you were mistaken or they think it over, the system was a bad idea when it was the initial honor system and it's a bad idea now.

 

Miaw

It's also mentioned on MMO-Champion:

# Some arena weapons will have a "rating requirement" in the future.

 

Quixotic

If you cant maintain a 1900 rating, why shouldn't you be forced to buy the new season's gear instead of the new season's weapon first? It's not like you have your 5 piece set and ranged slot by the time you can afford the weapon.

Honestly it seems like a smart idea, when you are stuck at 1600 with no gear, and getting beat by people with a 130 dps 2h pvp weapon and blues, when you have a 110 dps 2h pve weapon and gladiator items... it just seems easier when everyone around you is limited by the restrictions because under 1900 you either aren't geared, or you need more practice.

 

Brakar

The problem is if you hover around 1900 in the end. You have to have two completely separate weapons enchanted and everything because if you get unlucky and lose a couple of games you all of a sudden can't use your weapon. It's also a problem because a group with rating >1900 can quite often be matched with someone close in rating but <1900. All of a sudden there's a forced gear difference, no matter what you do. The team <1900 (even 1895 or whatever) has extremely underpowered weapons compared to the other team (say 1905)

I have a huge problem with an enforced rating to even use the weapon. You have to keep some other weapon fully enchanted and ready to go because god forbid you ever switch teams, have an unlucky streak and drop below the cutoff, or at the beginning of a new season you can't use it. Having a min rating in order to buy a weapon I'm okay with, but a forced rating to continue to ever use has too many issues associated with it. Especially if you're well rated pvp but in a moderate pve guild and do both actively. Besides a bad week, etc affecting your pvp, it now also drastically affects your pve ability as well and you're still in a position of forever having a high quality backup.

 

Clashen

Doesn't say anywhere that you're required to keep that rating in order to use the weapon.

 

senior toasted bread

If all you needed was the 1900 rating to buy it, people would join a high ranked team to buy weapons and then go back. I think the best solution would be to buy the weapon you need a 1900 rating with 30% of your teams games played.

 

nife

More then likely this won't happen. Blizz wants to have to keep as little information as possible in their database servers. Also what would you do for the people that leave a team? do they lose the weapon they purchased ? that would be horrible.

 

senior toasted bread

Just to buy it, it would still be possible to cheese your way to a weapon like some guilds did with netherdrakes, but much harder.

 

Osse

If it's possible to just join a high rating team to buy those weapons it would be rather funny as currently there's 6 players in total that are in teams with over 1900 rating in my server.

Gawd we could make money, a lot of it.

 

Smoker

About people saying that pvp should be alongside with pve in itemization havent blizzard said that pve weapons will always be a tad better then pvp weapons for pvp purposes?

You would also have to count in the amount of time they spend versus the reward in pvp and pve.

Getting the Illidan dagger requires 400+ hours starting from SSC, depending on how you think.
Getting the pvp dagger requires 7 hours without potting or anything?

 

syeren

And what about the dynamic thinking required that goes into PVP over PVE when you play seriously against serious teams? It's not exactly the argument you bring up there, but what you just said is entirely pointless, we're not the ones following a scripted event with some mod telling us what's about to happen and how to act to it

 

sylveni

The rating requirement is probably to counteract teams in full tier 6 who are at the top of the rankings. It's a good way to give top pvp'ers equal footing with tier 6 pve players, and not give away massively powerful items to everyone.

 

Kardinalen

Question is how easy/hard it will be for teams heavy with rogues, warriors, hunters and weapon dependant hybridspeccs once everyone above and just below the rating needed has the new weapons?

 

Trilly

I have to say I'm honestly not thrilled with a rating "requirement" to purchase items. I'd much rather they wiped the points at the start of a season to prevent people from buying the new items right away. If not this, put equivalent weapons obtainable through the Honor system also, so people have another avenue to obtain them.

I'm far from a "Timmy Casual" player, but there just aren't enough arena spots to go around in my guild, especially for a rogue. As a melee I'm dependent on my weapons, and unless they change something fundamental to the Arena weapons, they're still equal to or better than what's available to an average raider at the time they come out. I've used the offhand since day one of season 2 as my raiding weapon, and I did the same with the season 1 weapon. Make these arena weapons undesirable for raiding / PvE and I'd support this decision, but I don't have a solution on *how* to do that.

So come season 3, I can hope for a "mercy invite" from one of our teams so I can buy my stuff, and that's only if Blizz doesn't put in a "must have played 10-30% of the games" caveat.

 

Talgog

There are two competing dynamics at work in Arena gear.

1. Top PvE versus PvP.
2. Everyone else in PvE versus everyone else in PvP.

If Tier 6 PvP gear is not introduced, the proliferation of BT/Hyjal/Sunwell (apparently) gear at the very top of the raid community will allow for anyone with decent PvP skills to overwhelm pure PvPers, both due to the iLevel of the gear and certain new stats (armor penetration, anyone?)

However at the same time, for WoW at large, most of the high end raid content might as well not exist. Penetration into Tier 5 PvE content doesn't remotely approach penetration into Tier 5 PvP "content." Gladiator gear may not be the best for raids, but it's certainly the best for PvP (in the same tier) and it's also the best for general wear. And it's also the easier to obtain.

So you need to have the gear equal to the top raid gear in the game to appease the PvPers who do not want to PvE to PvP (let alone what's similar to getting whipped by Tier 3 raiders when they're in their GM gear), but at the same time, with that gear available to everyone, it rapidly outstrips the PvE progress of all but the most advanced guilds. Not even touching the obvious "certainty" factor of PvP gear.

You want a Tier 5 helm and chest, you either kill Vashj and Kael, or you bought them when Season 2 turned, or a couple weeks afterwards if you didn't have as many points banked.

Which route do you think will ultimately hand out more Tier 5 helms and chests in the life of WoW?

There's no real way to reconcile this. Even if the difficulty of all the Tier 5 content was massively nerfed across the board, people would still prefer PvP because it's more certain, selectable (i.e. warrior wants an OH weapon and some gloves, screw the rest) and most likely still quite a bit faster and less logistically taxing.

 

Squarepusher

I strongly object to your assertion that those two s2 items are the equivalent of the two t5 items.

 

Crossbones

I don't know if this was mentioned in the hubub about about min raitings, but in season 3, the season 1 gear is going to be moved into honor gear so that people have a way of catching up if they haven't been playing in the arena a while now.

 

diotox

That's an awesome change and really removes a big part of my original gripe about rating requirements.

 

Smoker

Well if I wanted a good weapon, and only that, Id rather spend 7 dynamic thinking hours then following some mod that tells me what to do, I mean, it takes less time and dynamic thinking must be way funnier then following some mod, right?


And as Quixotic wrote:
If you have killed Reliquary of Souls for example then you earn that mace way more then a guy whos pvped for 5 hours a week x4.

 

Talgog

How so? They're identical in appearance, parallel in progression and the only difference in iLevel is the PvP set is actually slightly higher.

The accomplishment and effort required certainly are not equal, but that was the point of my post. When Gladiator gear is scaled to match the best available PvP gear, it dramatically outstrips what most people are actually wearing and using in the game world. That's because most people simply do not have, nor will they ever have (while the gear is actually worth wearing) , access to Kael drops.

They do have access to the Arena, though.

Most players simply don't care where the powerful gear comes from so long as they have powerful gear that looks cool. The 2.0 mad rush for GM weapons and shoulders said more than enough in that regard.

 

Calantus

That's the whole fucking point. In PVP you WANT players to get geared. I go up against a team where the priest has no resil and we just pop him without breaking a sweat and the game is a shitty waste of queue time + prepare time. It's not fun to just explode people because they're undergeared and it's not fun to explode in PVP because you don't have the gear. You're looking at a game system that is sopposed to appeal to an entirely different demographic and mindset to the raiding crowd (with some crossover of course).

Not that it matters if the -2 season's gear becomes honor gear in the latest season because then there's a way to catch up, but I just can't resist this argument. It's actually a very good idea and mechanic, one of the best ideas I've seen from Blizzard to date (EDIT: the seaon-becomes-honor-gear idea).

 

• Wodin

They're called 'Charity Epics' for a reason.

The weapon thing fixes most of my gripes, to be honest.