[shaman] Resto questions - Page 3

Instant · 10/25/07, 11:17 AM

Not sure if any of you noticed. But as of 2.3 there will be no multi arena set bonus. If you have say 2 piece of season 1 and 2 pieces of season 2, you will get the one arena set bonus. I read all of this on worldofraids.com and the wow forums.

Sovereign · 10/25/07, 1:27 PM

Just wondering what the general thoughts are on resto spec's and what you think is more important for arena.

Here are the choices -

A) 7 Points in Elemental for Elemental warding?

B) 20 points in Enhancement for Toughness?

I think for Toughness its defiantly a 2v2 or 3v3 spec, because I find normally I'm tanking something. Now this would depend entirely on the setup you run with. I find that I'm normally the target for most melee classes in 2s, this offers a lot vs Warrior, Paladin which I find if they play it right its near impossible to beat, lucky for me there is lot of scrub paladin warrior teams in my battle group. The point is the fight comes down to me being able to keep myself up while we try in vain(sometimes) to get a decent shock, pummel, intercept and fear rotation going on the paladin while he's Line of sighting me when ever he can. Its also a very strong spec if you play Warrior shaman Paladin because you will be the target of choice 90% of the time, where as I think spell damage teams may focus the paladin or warrior.

Elemental warding

id say its a 5v5 spec because due to most 2345 setups theses days they do switch focus on somebody fast and the having 10% armour isn't anything compared to having 10% damage of that mage / shaman unloading inside your ass.

I didn't really cover many areas due to me leaving work right about now

So if anyone want to add anything on why they would want A or B please do.

Trifle · 10/25/07, 5:13 PM

Elemental warding helps mainly against mages and other shamans (esp elemental) which you won't necessarily find a great deal of in 2s, altho a bit more so in 3s.

However, more importantly, I can't imagine spending only 41 in the restoration tree, so toughness is off limits for me anyway.

Teewee · 10/26/07, 9:23 AM

Originally Posted by Sovereign

Just wondering what the general thoughts are on resto spec's and what you think is more important for arena.

Here are the choices -

A) 7 Points in Elemental for Elemental warding?

B) 20 points in Enhancement for Toughness?
...
So if anyone want to add anything on why they would want A or B please do.

I'm probably always going to stick with Elemental Warding for the same reason as Trifle, 41 points in resto seems very tough to pick.

However going with option B for arena also gives you extra dodge but more importantly imp totems gives you 2 seconds off grounding. If the season 3 resto 4-piece set bonus stays the same and it's 2 additional seconds off grounding, that gives grounding totem an 11 second cooldown, which would be nice.

I just can't think of anything I'd like to drop from restoration for the extra points in enhance. Certain talents like healing way might not be the best option for arena play for my team, but I'd want to keep it for when I can use HW a few times.

Avair · 10/26/07, 1:45 PM

I have been taking my Resto shaman a bit more seriously lately, now that my rogue has mostly geared up in BGs. So I'm working on my spec, gear and improving my play.

Spec
I think I'm going to go with 8/7/46. Here's why I chose what I did.

What I took
* 2/2 Guardian Totems - I severely under use grounding totem, mostly because I have trouble balancing between WF and it. 13 sec cooldown should make it more useful for mitigation.
* 3/3 Nature's Guidance - Getting a shock resisted is really bad, especially when it means a holy light goes through. Spell hit is completely absent from PvP gear, so this is mostly the only option.
* 3/3 Elemental Warding - 10% less damage from mages, oomkin and Elementals.

What I didn't take
* Totematic focus - Totem's don't seem to eat up the lions share of mana (at least in my losses)
* Ancestral Healing - Only helps vs warriors/rogues and they aren't my biggest problem.
* 3/5 Tidal Mastery - Since I'm not taking AH, I'm already losing synergy, so this isn't as big a loss in my mind.
* Healing Way - I almost never get a chance to stack this up in Arena.

Improving my Gear
Since I have a mix of 5 S1/S2 armor, I've been hording points for the S2 healing mace. My rating bad enough that I doubt I can get to 1850 for the S3 anyway. Since S3 isn't far off, I'm hesitant to spend honor points on veteran's gear. I have boots/bracers, but I think I'm going to buy the Ring this weekend, since it can be stacked with Vindicator ring. I think it would silly not to run the Horsemen as well for a chance at the Witching Band (welfar-oween epics).

I have the [Alembic of Infernal Power] which I think is a great Arena 2nd trinket, since it gives both resilience and mana regen.

Improving my Play
I divide the potential aspects of play for an Arena resto shaman into these areas:

* Healing - I'm ok at this.
* Purging - I have gotten much better about using the start of the match to purge down the main target.
* Interrupts - I need work here, especially with my use of grounding totem.
* Totem Management - I tend to put up an initial set of Poison/Tremor/Frost Resist/WF and then forget about them.
* Damage - I help out when I can, but I don't really get the GCDs to do much here, unless we are already winning.

Things I want to focus on
1) Grounding Totem/WF Totem Twisting - I think I'm going to put together the following macro.

/castsequence reset=13 Grounding Totem, Windfury Totem(Rank 1)

Basically, this should allow me to twist GT and WF, using the recommended rank 1 WF with my warrior (to conserve mana).

2) Earthshock and Focus - I need to make better use of the focus window and set my default interrupt button (spacebar) to target my focus. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if you can macro something like this (pseudocode)

if focus target exists, earth shock focus else earth shock current target

3) Totem Management - What I really need is a mod that makes it blindingly obvious that one of my totems has been destroyed and needs to be replaced. I have been using Call of elements to manage my totems so far, but it doesn't really seem to have any feature like that.

raemond · 10/26/07, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Avair

Improving my Play
I divide the potential aspects of play for an Arena resto shaman into these areas:

* Healing - I'm ok at this.
* Purging - I have gotten much better about using the start of the match to purge down the main target.
* Interrupts - I need work here, especially with my use of grounding totem.
* Totem Management - I tend to put up an initial set of Poison/Tremor/Frost Resist/WF and then forget about them.
* Damage - I help out when I can, but I don't really get the GCDs to do much here, unless we are already winning.

.

You forgot our most important function, tanking rogues.

Teewee · 10/26/07, 2:25 PM

Improving my Play
I divide the potential aspects of play for an Arena resto shaman into these areas:

* Healing - I'm ok at this.
* Purging - I have gotten much better about using the start of the match to purge down the main target.
* Interrupts - I need work here, especially with my use of grounding totem.
* Totem Management - I tend to put up an initial set of Poison/Tremor/Frost Resist/WF and then forget about them.
* Damage - I help out when I can, but I don't really get the GCDs to do much here, unless we are already winning.

Purging is just something you have to get in the habit of doing as much as possible. When your warrior is dpsing someone and they get a shield or a freedom, have him call it out and ask for a purge. With voice chat it's easy to call and will help remind you for it.

For interrupts, set the target as focus and use the earth shock macro below, it seems like it'll help.

2) Earthshock and Focus - I need to make better use of the focus window and set my default interrupt button (spacebar) to target my focus. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if you can macro something like this (pseudocode)

From Murderbots [Shaman] PVE Healing Guide, and Grotar for the code:

#showtooltip Earth Shock(Rank 1)
/focus [modifier]
/cast [target=focus, exists] Earth Shock(Rank 1)
/stopmacro [target=focus, exists]
/focus

"First use will set the focus target, subsequent uses cast on the focus target. Modifier use (ie. ALT) will change the focus and cast the spell. Thanks to Grotar for this one."

3) Totem Management - What I really need is a mod that makes it blindingly obvious that one of my totems has been destroyed and needs to be replaced. I have been using Call of elements to manage my totems so far, but it doesn't really seem to have any feature like that.

Try looking at shamanfriend:
Shaman Friend | World of Warcraft @ Curse.com
It doesn't currently have any specifics about totems, however it will show a big warning when grounding eats something. That is enough for me to look at grounding cooldown and either drop r1 windfury or another grounding.

As for call of elements or gotwood, just make sure the timers are in a place that you can see easily. I have mine right by my health bar, so it easily catches my eye, and I also made it scale a little larger so it's easier to see.

I have the [Alembic of Infernal Power] which I think is a great Arena 2nd trinket, since it gives both resilience and mana regen.

Thats not bad, but I like:
[Timelapse Shard]
The +use is worthless, however it gives lots of stamina and resilience, which everybody need lots of. Yeah it's not as much resilience, but if you are hurting for stamina it's a nice option to have.

Shae · 10/26/07, 8:09 PM

Originally Posted by Avair

if focus target exists, earth shock focus else earth shock current target

Assuming you're managing your focus target in another manner (like an arena mod), a literal translation of your pseudocode would be something along the lines of

/cast [target=focus,exists] [] Earth Shock

though you might want to consider further inspecting the state of the focus target (harm, nodead, etc) rather than simply exists. On the other hand, the macro posted above does a pretty nice job of helping you manage the focus target in addition to shocking.

RemJay24 · 11/04/07, 5:29 PM

I too am an arena oriented Resto shammy in need of help.

After reading a majority of this thread, i came to the conclusion that..
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Shaman -> Talent Calculator

would be a decent build... maybe? hehe. I see myself casting lesser healing waves 99% of the time instead of the larger heals, since I can get interrupted much easier... and sometimes my team mates are getting nuked so fast that I need to get heals up on them ASAP.

I only 3v3 ATM (between 1500 and 1600 rating)... with 2 RL friends (a shadow priest spec'd for pvp, and a arcane/fire mage spec'd for raiding). I would love it for the mage to re-spec to frost, but I doubt he'll do it (but maybe he'd lose the burst dmg if he did...). My gear consists of 4 BG epics.. as im hording up the arena and honor points for season 3... so my gear is filled with lots of blues ATM.

some questions I have...
1) Could shield specialization ever be considered in arena? Granted it seems silly ever having to go into it unless you're level 10... though I am just curious if it would help reduce the damage of those rogues/hunters/warriors who are nuking into you?
2) I see most resto shammys have a ton of chores to do... how do they do it?! I'm constantly healing most of the time and do not have room to drop totems (during the match... i drop them right before the battle begins), cleanse off poisons, earth shock healers, etc. Seems mind boggling, while trying to kite off rogues/warriors.
3) What do grounding totems re-direct? Any offensive spells directed at the shaman? (or can it re-direct spells directed at my team mates?).
4) I still like to consider myself NEW to the shaman... even though I have been level 70 for nearly 2 months? (uh oh?). My main is a rogue who I know the ins and outs... so any extra input on my shaman would be helpful. Should I change the build above? Does elemental warding help against poisons as well? Should I switch up into using my larger heals (and thus putting points into improved healing wave). Thanks!

Teewee · 11/04/07, 8:09 PM

Originally Posted by RemJay24

I too am an arena oriented Resto shammy in need of help.

After reading a majority of this thread, i came to the conclusion that..
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Shaman -> Talent Calculator

would be a decent build... maybe? hehe. I see myself casting lesser healing waves 99% of the time instead of the larger heals, since I can get interrupted much easier... and sometimes my team mates are getting nuked so fast that I need to get heals up on them ASAP.

I only 3v3 ATM (between 1500 and 1600 rating)... with 2 RL friends (a shadow priest spec'd for pvp, and a arcane/fire mage spec'd for raiding). I would love it for the mage to re-spec to frost, but I doubt he'll do it (but maybe he'd lose the burst dmg if he did...). My gear consists of 4 BG epics.. as im hording up the arena and honor points for season 3... so my gear is filled with lots of blues ATM.

some questions I have...
1) Could shield specialization ever be considered in arena? Granted it seems silly ever having to go into it unless you're level 10... though I am just curious if it would help reduce the damage of those rogues/hunters/warriors who are nuking into you?
2) I see most resto shammys have a ton of chores to do... how do they do it?! I'm constantly healing most of the time and do not have room to drop totems (during the match... i drop them right before the battle begins), cleanse off poisons, earth shock healers, etc. Seems mind boggling, while trying to kite off rogues/warriors.
3) What do grounding totems re-direct? Any offensive spells directed at the shaman? (or can it re-direct spells directed at my team mates?).
4) I still like to consider myself NEW to the shaman... even though I have been level 70 for nearly 2 months? (uh oh?). My main is a rogue who I know the ins and outs... so any extra input on my shaman would be helpful. Should I change the build above? Does elemental warding help against poisons as well? Should I switch up into using my larger heals (and thus putting points into improved healing wave). Thanks!

That spec doesn't seem that bad for arena. I personally wouldn't lose healing way, imp chain heal, or imp healing wave, but I play in a 3 healer 2 warrior 5v5 team. So while most of the time I'm using LHW, every now and then I get a chance to get off a nice chain heal, or a max rank healing wave, which the talents help with a whole lot.

For your numbered questions...
1) I wouldn't even try it, rogues and warriors should be on the lower side of things that bother you, with your high armor and earth shield.

2) Totems, purge, and bloodlust are the three biggest things we have going for us. In order to do well you need to do it all, just get used to doing it. Grounding totem placed at the right time can save a teammate from a 2k nuke, which saves yourself a heal. Just keep playing and getting used to all of your jobs and you'll get better at it. Have your teammates call out when they need a purge, to remind you to get them.

3) Grounding will act as a buff for everybody in your party. The first offensive spell that is casted towards someone who has the buff will get eaten up.

4) I assume elemental warding counts towards poisons, but I never checked it specifically. I'm pretty sure that stormstrike helps out poisons, so I don't see why elemental warding wouldn't.

Also a note, if you are this serious about doing arena to improve how you play, you should make your mage respec to frost, at least 21 points. If they don't have ice block they are going to die fast, and there isn't much that you can do about it.

Kapetal · 11/04/07, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by Avair

3) Totem Management - What I really need is a mod that makes it blindingly obvious that one of my totems has been destroyed and needs to be replaced. I have been using Call of elements to manage my totems so far, but it doesn't really seem to have any feature like that.

The best totem addon I've found is Totem Manager (Chaman2). It monitors everything a shaman should be worried about and it's easy to use. If one of your totems is destroyed, the timer bar turns red. However, its UI doesn't make it easy to twist totems, but you can always use your regular action bars to make up for that.

Smoker · 11/04/07, 10:07 PM

What's the best gem, 8 res or 12 stamina?
I realize if you have crapgear 12 stamina is the best but what I've got around 12k "arena buffed" and 320 resilience.
I think my biggest problem is classes that wear me down slowly, like a warrior, which gem should make me stay alive longer versus those in the long run?

Originally Posted by Teewee

4) I assume elemental warding counts towards poisons, but I never checked it specifically. I'm pretty sure that stormstrike helps out poisons, so I don't see why elemental warding wouldn't.

Elemental Warding counts towards poisons (nature dmg) yeah, and stormstrike helps out poison.

Teewee · 11/05/07, 6:09 AM

Originally Posted by Smoker

What's the best gem, 8 res or 12 stamina?
I realize if you have crapgear 12 stamina is the best but what I've got around 12k "arena buffed" and 320 resilience.
I think my biggest problem is classes that wear me down slowly, like a warrior, which gem should make me stay alive longer versus those in the long run?

I'd guess that in your situation you'd want more resilience, to lessen their damage even further. As resto we just need to buy time and slowly chip away at everybody else, assuming that you are alone. If you are in a group you'll still want to be less squishy, and 12k health should be enough.

Draelokken · 11/05/07, 4:57 PM

Personally, 12k seems a bit to much for me. At that point, you might be sacrificing too much of other stats to hit that target. Personally, I opt for around 11k unbuffed on my shaman and instead focus on acquiring more resilience. As the main healer for a 5v5 setup of rogue, shadow priest, holy priest, warlock, restoration shaman, I find that if and when I'm targeted, which is quite often, I'm focused hard. I found that sacrificing that extra 1k of health in exchange for resilience has made a noticeable improvement in my overall survivability.

Illundai · 11/12/07, 3:13 PM

Upcoming season I'll be taking it all a little more serious, I've stacked up both honor and arena points and will end up with 2 pieces s3 and honor belt, boots and bracers. I'll get the necklace the week after, as 75k is the cap which is 80k short of getting the neck too. As for arena stuff, that'll probably be helm and chest. Although, I was doubting since the gloves have the extra shock range... so its metasocket vs shock range. Any suggestions?

Also, I'm still looking for an arena partner. I want to take it quite serious, seeing PvE content is a bit dry at the moment, so what are the best fits for a Restoration Shaman?

Also talent wise, is getting eots something Resto Shamans do? Or do they rather just get Guardian Totems + Elemental Warding + the rest in resto?

◊ Praetorian · 11/12/07, 3:24 PM

I've been deliberating what to do with my PvP spec for next season as well.

I want Concussion + Elemental Warding, and I want Guardian Totems to stack with the new 4pc Resto bonus.

In terms of what to give up in the Resto tree, Imp Chain Heal is the first to go. Then I have some tougher choices. Ancestral Healing vs. Tidal Mastery vs. Healing Way, basically. Any thoughts from experienced resto shamans regarding which is least useful?

berg · 11/12/07, 3:35 PM

Unless they change behavior grounding totem will greatly decrease in value in 2.3. I cannot see going out of your way to grab guardian totems.

Purge, faerie fire, mind vision will all destroy the totem outright. Mind vision in particular will be brutal as it is 100 yards and no los for ~50 mana.

◊ Praetorian · 11/12/07, 3:43 PM

It won't last more than a second in 5s, true. But it's still completely invaluable in smaller brackets where it functions like a second interrupt that also costs your opponent mana. Not to mention using grounding to protect a heal in situations where you have a CS or Spell Lock likely.

PSokar · 11/12/07, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

In terms of what to give up in the Resto tree, Imp Chain Heal is the first to go. Then I have some tougher choices. Ancestral Healing vs. Tidal Mastery vs. Healing Way, basically. Any thoughts from experienced resto shamans regarding which is least useful?

You could put one point into ancestral healing, and one point in healing way, and still get a lot of benefit from the extra dispel protection.

Malakitoo · 11/13/07, 2:58 AM

Coming from healing a double caster dps 3s team and a 4dps 5s team, I find that healing way and ancestral fort can really help keep a caster up when he's being wailed on by 2+ melee. Sometimes you really need the high HPS that healing way affords. I don't like tidal mastery, although crits are nice there's more valuable things to spend points on than 1% crit. Maybe it's just my old "spell crit is not a healer stat" thinking, but that talent seems like the easiest to drop, and most easily replaced with gear. For straight pvp, I would go with 8/7/46 without tidal mastery, but since I'm a miser I go with 8/5/48 with imp chain heal as a combined pve/pvp spec.

Nerull · 11/13/07, 5:54 AM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

I've been deliberating what to do with my PvP spec for next season as well.

I want Concussion + Elemental Warding, and I want Guardian Totems to stack with the new 4pc Resto bonus.

In terms of what to give up in the Resto tree, Imp Chain Heal is the first to go. Then I have some tougher choices. Ancestral Healing vs. Tidal Mastery vs. Healing Way, basically. Any thoughts from experienced resto shamans regarding which is least useful?

I suppose it depends on in what bracket and how high you play.
If you play fairly high at 2v2 I dont think elemental warding will help a lot since what you face is mostly : warlock/healer or warlock / rogue or SP , and warrior/healer at which both elemental warding wont help much ( if a druid has time to spam wrath on you its most likely already over ).

In 3v3 or 5v5 ( I dont play the last one actively anymore though ) it becomes a bit different I would prefer both of them also. Im thinking of speccing this way : Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

It depends a lot though in 5v5 if you are playing with 2 warriors in it or not since then you likely want to drop windfury more often , thus not spending points in enhancement.

I took 2 points into nature's guidance since I have an item that gives +1% hit, but if you dont then take it from tidal mastery. I dont think stacking healing way is usefull since if you take it you need to take 3 points in it. When you start to see difference ( i.e. when 3 stacks of healing way are up ) that means you are standing still and casting heals for 5-7.5 seconds ( depending on bloodlust being up or not ) which is a really long time - too long for any compotent team to not interrupt you.

I personally took ancestral healing as I often end up tanking warriors or rogues which is where it helps a lot - it can basicly negate the sunders giving you a lot of extra survivability.

Sucks pretty much though that we had a build ( 8/0/53 ) that was pretty allround for pve and pvp and now it has become a lot harder if you ask me

◊ Praetorian · 11/13/07, 10:15 AM

Yeah, I've used 8/0/53 all season without respeccing. I agree that Elemental Warding probably seems like the least helpful just for most 2s matchups, though it's an incredibly helpful talent when I run into mage/rogue or mage/rogue/priest or something and am being focused. With regard to Healing Way, two things: First, I like it for the dispel protection since as a shaman I really have very few buffs, and if I'm fighting, say, healer+lock in 2s it's an extra thing (along with the relic buff on LHW and Ancestral) that might get devoured instead of Earth Shield or Bloodlust. Second, again in 2s, we have a lot of long matches of sham+rogue vs. healer+warrior or some such, and in those situations healing way really does shine in terms of maximizing my healing output and mana efficiency, and I'm definitely mostly casting HW and doing so often enough to keep the effect on. (I'm a ~2200 player in all three brackets, for reference.)

I take Nature's Guidance as a given, since shock resists are terrible. I specced into that immediately a few months ago after losing a match because I had two consecutive Earth Shock resists on mana burns where I'd been winning the mana war up until that point.

Slothrop · 11/14/07, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by wow

Ideally you want:
2/5 resto Gladiator season 1
2/5 resto Gladiator season 2
1/5 elemental season 2 (Gloves)

the only damage gear you should be using should be the gloves once you get an ideal set of gear.

So with Season 3 gear available in less than a week, what would be the ideal set of gear for the "well-dressed PvP resto shaman" and why?

Would there be any logical justification for having any season 1 components, or should PvP resto shamans be aspiring to a blend of season 2 and season 3 gear?

Kasi · 11/14/07, 7:30 PM

No season 1 components, but I assume that ideally you'd want S3 gloves/shoulders from elemental as well as S3 Legs/Head/Chest from restoration for the stacking 35 resilience bonus. Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I've read you can't stack the 35 resil bonus across different seasons, but you can across sets.

Nerull · 11/15/07, 5:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kasi

No season 1 components, but I assume that ideally you'd want S3 gloves/shoulders from elemental as well as S3 Legs/Head/Chest from restoration for the stacking 35 resilience bonus. Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I've read you can't stack the 35 resil bonus across different seasons, but you can across sets.

That is correct, that will still work.

I thought they changed resto gloves to have the +5 yards range on shocks also, but when I look at mmo-champion.com now then I see its the crappy 2% crit on lesser healing wave again.

With that I would defenitely go for elemental gloves and Im thinking of the headpiece also since it has 1 mana / 5 more. I know the difference is marginal, but if I had to chose an extra elemental piece it would probably be that. Hence same way why I would take resto shoulders over elemental. Since the shoulders would be the 3rd piece of resto it doesnt matter so much that it requires 2000 rating, I got enough items to spend it on before I get there again.