There was a topic about rated WSG games, and the conversation detrailed/evolved a bit from the original subject (Atleast from my part). Mainly the question was the reason what makes battlegrounds fun and why people play PvP in any MMORPG. Personally I disliked how WoW only focused on itemization, and there wasnt really any pvp content for competitive part of human nature. You can hardly call honor system from the old zombie grind days competitive in any other sense than measuring amount of time spent. While Arenas fixed part of that demand, I have been wondering how battlegrounds and world pvp in general could get more logical meaning. Immersion what I looked after with playing in PvP server isnt really related to PvP in any way, because killing someone has no real effect on anything. Thats would be the greatest motivation for me as pvp freak to bring world pvp back to life.
If we ignore materialist point of view for purely doing BGs to get new gear. I can say from past MMORPG experience in Anarchy Online, that title based ladder ranking for players can create extremely addictive and competitive small scale pvp environment. How the current crippled remains of honor system and world pvp could be changed into something that could measure players personal PvP history? Something how people could see their co-players activity in battlegrounds and so on. Lifetime honor kills is extremely lacking measure of someones pvp background, but what if you could directly see how many BGs player X have won? How many flag captures someone have interupted, or is player Y only zerging and not participating in pvp objectives at all?
But how should Blizzard re-enable PvP titles into this game? I would say that its huge waste of potential if titles were turned into something that players can just go and buy from vendor. Not only it would break huge amount of immersion from the game, by destroying the meaning of such ranks among residents of WoW. But in addition it would annihilate possibilities in creating addictive metagame what I have had in mind since the beginning of my wow career.
Vaneras at 2006-11-27 08:13:56
Subject: 27/11 3 Options for displaying PvP title
...Also we do plan to make the current battleground titles available again at some point in the future, so there will be more opportunities to gain them if you had not before. We don't currently have any plans in motion for how that will be achieved, but it's something we are intending to make available in the future. Until that time your rank titles will be somewhat of a keepsake from the old system.
The PvP title ranking
PvP titles could be moved to use personal ratings from BG information that tracked your victories, flags you have captured, flags you have returned, flag carriers you have participated to kill, flag carriers you healed and it resulted in that flag being succesfully captured. Ruleset how this should be implemented, should be based in remotely fair ranking, just rule of thumb values for activity on battlegrounds. All that what matters in BG would be tracked. Personal ranks that would increase while doing pvp, would create logical reasoning for players to actually participate with flag capturing and defending flags.
How would this system work?
All players have 1 personal rating when they assign to world PvP at NPC where you can activate ranked pvp. Each objective you complete in battleground, would reward you with X amount of contribution points. Each negative effect you get in battlegrounds reduce your rating. All your ratings and such would be tracked to Armory and this would be base of server ranking ladder. This would be great place to check how your friends participate in battlegrounds. Whos best attacker? Whos best defender? All this kind of little friendly competitions between players.
Rank and Title table
How do I get rating from killing people?
Killing player within 50% of your ranks maximum points will reward you 1% of their current rating. This percentage is trying to widen the title war range at the top end fights. Creating increased difficulty on keeping your title. Higher you go, the higher variety of top ranked players will be able to fight you for your titles.
Antiganking:
100% damage during 5minutes rewards 1% rating.
75-99% damage during 5 minutes rewards 0.5% rating.
50-75% damage during 5 minutes rewards 0.25% rating.
1-50% damage during 5 minutes rewards 0.1% rating. Diminisghing returns:
2 kills and target turns to immune of your rating calculations (Reset every 10 minutes).
Healing player within will reward you equal amount based on your enemys healing received. Healing promotional:
100% health during 5minutes rewards 1% rating.
75-99% health during 5 minutes rewards 0.5% rating.
50-75% health during 5 minutes rewards 0.25% rating.
1-50% health during 5 minutes rewards 0.1% rating. Diminisghing returns:
1 combat durations and target turns to immune of your rating calculations (Reset every 1 minutes).
What are the objectives then?
Battlegrounds - Rating changes based on time spent in BG (Calculated at end of BG).
100% (1 point) rating loss and gain for 100% duration of BG.
50% (0.5 points) rating loss and gain for 50% duration of BG.
0% rating loss and gain for 0% duration of BG.
I tried to create reasonable ruleset for rewarding people in world pvp/bg and how they should be PvP should effect this ranking. But this is only my point of view, hence I would like to ask what you guys think is important in BGs? This would be rather complicated system, so what kind of flaws and abuses this kind of system would create? This isnt supposed to be perfect simulation of players PvP activity. Only system that is relatively balanced considering the events in world pvp and battlegrounds (Hell, even world pvp objectives could be more popular if those were tracked down to your personal rating in armory). More like a "Rule of Thumb" about players pvp performance.
Advantages
I think that this kind of system would increase overall BG quality, as all players would have personal goal to make sure their battleground is victorious. Also I hated the honor grind days because they gave little to nothing for healing classes, basicly no honor for healing in random BGs, so I tried to make system that would allow healers to participate also. I really love how much good Arenas have done in overall playerbase ability to handle their class and pvp in general. Those who wouldnt like to attend the personal ladder wouldnt loose anything, but if anyone wanted to have better rank, they would do all they can to win the BG and do PvP objectives.
This could change playerbase attitude to BGs a lot, as everyone would have some personal objective why to do best for team, while current honor only system rewards no matter what the result is. And there isnt any kind of reward from completing objectives, maybe few honor points. But from my experience its extremely lacking as psychological encouragement to defend flags instead of zerging to try maximize honor. Lets just say that personal PvP ranking system would be fun little metagame, and maybe even something that people could say they are server best flag carrier etc.
Holy crap this evolved into huge wall of text. I hope this is interesting or atleast unique approach to this trend where developers add new titles like Gladiator and such into this game.
It sounds good, but I would only personally like it if they swapped HWL/GM factions, so the "old" people who got ranked, would still be unique compared to the new ones.
Originally Posted by Sebudai
Addons aren't a crutch, they're tools to be abused by skilled players to increase performance. Like a carpenter using a hammer, a fisherman using a lure, or Xi using curse words.
I think you've overthought the system honestly. What you've proposed would likely be very difficult to implement. Also when you punish people for losing (even if it's just a title based thing) that can discourage participation which you don't want.
Personally I'd rather see something along the lines of Achievements as you see them in Xbox 360 games. You could have a list of accomplishments that would display on your armory page, and if you earned enough of them you could get a title.
Some examples I pulled out of my ass:
Master healer: Heal 200,000 points of damage in a battleground match
Unstoppable fighter: Earn 50 honor kills without dying
Tactician: Return 100 flags (total lifetime)
Deffinately an interesting idea. However i think the system could be simplified a little to only take into account already measured stats like healing done, damage done, towers capped and so forth, ofcourse with a couple of minor additions. This could be saved in a new tab on your character sheet so they were visible for anyone to see much like the honor tab is now. Titles could be handed out on a weekly basis to encourage continued activity.
Though your suggestions for determining the ranks players will receive under any new system seem like a good idea, I just don't think using the former PvP ranks is fair to players who achieved those ranks under the old system.
When you think about it the only thing left from that system that high ranking players can enjoy is the title they earned, a title that isn't possible to earn anymore (currently). So with that being said, the point of a title is exclusivity and to display an accomplishment that one makes, and bringing the same titles back under a new and probably easier/less time consuming system would be pretty irritating.
Beef: Also when you punish people for losing (even if it's just a title based thing) that can discourage participation which you don't want.
Punishment is necesary to make people value their own ratings. It wouldnt be harsh, it would only need to create little feeling of loss when dying, since in BGs dying is little to no value (Except AV in future).
You say it would discourage, I say it enchance quality. Even if it is just a minor loss, it will make people think twice what they do. You are right to some degree, it is double edged sword. But as said, the penalty should be minor. What current BGs are, its relief or even reward that you die to get back with full mana. This system would give you reason to stay alive.
Roped: Though your suggestions for determining the ranks players will receive under any new system seem like a good idea, I just don't think using the former PvP ranks is fair to players who achieved those ranks under the old system.
I am former R14 also, and Im disgusted by the idea of buyable ranks. Its just unimaginable spit on our face. I wouldnt mind new ranks, its ok, but when I would need to select from 2 "bad" I would whole heartedly support system that requires players to show any signs of skill or teamplay needed to achieve said ranks.
I dont mind loosing my Grand Marshal title if someone with good knowledge on game and will to participate in BG for the team takes the title from me.
Could be simply based on the amount of lifetime kills. Would be in the same spirit of long time pvping required to get the higher titles.
This would not improve the battlegrounds any more than what they currently are. Then you would have people just romping around for kills. That's all PuGs in my battlegroup while waiting for AV to open up.
At Crom: I like your concept, but I'm with beef on the implementation part. It sounds pretty complex, but I like the spirit of it by rewarding healers and such for their individual merits that make a team successful. I for one am not content with being some rank 14 warriors heal bitch, but I'd love a title that shows I am a competent flag-runner.
Punishments are understandable, but if you get too drastic, your just going to discourage people from putting in a serious effort.
I reject your paltry reality and substitute my own.
Punishments are understandable, but if you get too drastic, your just going to discourage people from putting in a serious effort.
In my oppinion punishment is needed! The current state of battleground as opposed to arenas is a great example. Half the people in battlegrounds aren't putting any sort of effort into their play, at least from my experience. Arenas however bring a real incentitive to give it all you got and i generally see better performances from my opponents there than i do in battleground.
In fact i think it is the other way around. Not implementing a punishment for bad/inactive play discourage people from putting in a serious effort due to it not really paying off.
I would hate for this to happen in any case. It's bad enough that terrible people can get Gladiator, can Blizzard please not ruin the old PvP titles as well? If I wasted months of my life to get the title I have, I'd expect some recognition (that was sarcasm by the way, for the less astute). Seriously though, enabling this is a bad idea. I display my Field Marshal title because it actually means something, unfortunately the Gladiator title is a joke. I suppose it would be too much to ask for Blizzard to keep this unique to people who created their characters back when BG/World PvP didn't suck as much. As some of the previous posters stated, this is kind of like spitting in the face of the people who actually worked for their titles. Sadly enough (at least on my server), plenty of scrubs who had no competition got HWL, and to a lesser extent GM, after the serious players had all gotten their titles and retired. This is pretty much the same thing, hopefully it never happens.
I would hate for this to happen in any case. It's bad enough that terrible people can get Gladiator, can Blizzard please not ruin the old PvP titles as well? If I wasted months of my life to get the title I have, I'd expect some recognition (that was sarcasm by the way, for the less astute). Seriously though, enabling this is a bad idea. I display my Field Marshal title because it actually means something, unfortunately the Gladiator title is a joke. I suppose it would be too much to ask for Blizzard to keep this unique to people who created their characters back when BG/World PvP didn't suck as much. As some of the previous posters stated, this is kind of like spitting in the face of the people who actually worked for their titles. Sadly enough (at least on my server), plenty of scrubs who had no competition got HWL, and to a lesser extent GM, after the serious players had all gotten their titles and retired. This is pretty much the same thing, hopefully it never happens.
How can the openning part of your post be sarcasm when you simply repeat the tone with the rest of your post? Honor titles are meaningless. I don't even know what the rank 10 title is, but I have that. I don't display it because I just don't care. It signifies I had enough tolerance for monotony to get that far and only that.
How can the openning part of your post be sarcasm when you simply repeat the tone with the rest of your post? Honor titles are meaningless. I don't even know what the rank 10 title is, but I have that. I don't display it because I just don't care. It signifies I had enough tolerance for monotony to get that far and only that.
I didn't say that only that part was sarcastic, did I? I simply pointed it out to make sure it wasn't being taken completely as a serious post. As for your opinion of honor titles, well, that's your opinion. Perhaps your server was a joke to get your ranks on, or that there wasn't much competition. This was not the case for my server. In order to be competitive (pretty much all the way until after AB came out) you had to play quite a bit. Yes, it was a huge timesink. The thing is though, when instanced PvP was first introduced, grinding honor was a pretty big deal. Like I stated, maybe you don't care because it was meaningless on your server, but this was certainly not the case on mine. There were serious PvP groups on both factions and there wasn't any room for random scrubs. That was probably why I enjoyed the grind the most (before cross server BGS); playing with as well as against the best on your server in WSG.
Also, to perhaps clarify what I stated earlier. I (as well as pretty much everyone I've talked to who actually played back then) don't consider the titles meaningless. What's meaningless about them is the kids who earned them playing like 10 hours a week when nobody cared anymore. Re-instituting these titles so they can be bought with honor or whatever would just make them even commonplace. There's no reason for it. Perhaps separate titles should be added for each battleground or something (kind of like Justicar but for different things, i.e. captured 1,000 flags in WSG). From my experience and from that of the people I've played with, just adding the honor titles back in would be a pretty bad idea. Hopefully this clarifies things.
I played 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week and I was in the first PVP group on the server to make GMs (though joined it a while into their grind) and it made the first 4 before enough people got the ranks they desired and quit for the group to break up. I would have liked to hit rank 11 but the only reason I was still able to stomach slaughtering helpless pug teams over and over again all day was because of the people that left.
It was competitive I'll not lie, and at the very beginning you had to be good because the teams that were good AND put in the time beat out the teams that were not so good but put in the time. Then you didn't have to be good because anyone who was good enough and with enough time no longer needed to grind and so you just had to beat out the other scrubs with too much time. I respected the first 4 GMs, didn't care about the rest. The respect gained from the title alone has been non-existant for so long you either respect a gladiator (none were bought on my server that I know of), or you respect someone from seeing them play. The other titles mean nothing.
I was a GM on my paladin, and I see no reason why we should get to hang onto our titles exclusively. Everything passes in an MMO, and a demand that these titles from an insanely broken system remain untouched is no different than all those protests pre-expansion that all that work to get Naxx items would be wiped away by the expansion.
I was a GM on my paladin, and I see no reason why we should get to hang onto our titles exclusively. Everything passes in an MMO, and a demand that these titles from an insanely broken system remain untouched is no different than all those protests pre-expansion that all that work to get Naxx items would be wiped away by the expansion.
I concur. If there is system that involves or even tries to evaluate player skill and sense of BG tactics I am more than happy to give up my title.
I played 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week and I was in the first PVP group on the server to make GMs (though joined it a while into their grind) and it made the first 4 before enough people got the ranks they desired and quit for the group to break up. I would have liked to hit rank 11 but the only reason I was still able to stomach slaughtering helpless pug teams over and over again all day was because of the people that left.
It was competitive I'll not lie, and at the very beginning you had to be good because the teams that were good AND put in the time beat out the teams that were not so good but put in the time. Then you didn't have to be good because anyone who was good enough and with enough time no longer needed to grind and so you just had to beat out the other scrubs with too much time. I respected the first 4 GMs, didn't care about the rest. The respect gained from the title alone has been non-existant for so long you either respect a gladiator (none were bought on my server that I know of), or you respect someone from seeing them play. The other titles mean nothing.
I mostly agree with what your last post said, Calantus. I don't know about the respect from the titles being non-existent, as for me there is a certain recognition between the people I grinded honor with. I still keep up with them even though I don't have an active subscription to WoW.I suppose it's all a matter of perspective though. One man's trash is another man's treasure, or however the saying goes.
Originally Posted by Cromfel
I concur. If there is system that involves or even tries to evaluate player skill and sense of BG tactics I am more than happy to give up my title.
Cromfel, I doubt that will ever happen. Blizzard is way too accommodating to carebears to really ever make such concrete distinctions (as if WoW PvP was hard to begin with). Case in point being the Gladiator title. If you're a Warlock and you have a Druid buddy you'll be Gladiator in 2's or 3's with minimal effort/intelligence (I could go on to cite personal references here, but we'll leave the drama to the retard, er, WoW Realm forums). That's just the way it is at the moment. The only difference between the GM grind and S2 Gladiator (at least in the smaller brackets) is that you're substituting the time variable for class variable (Warlock > rock > scissors > paper). It's still stupid, and it's not really a test of skill, but that's the way it is. Granted, arena is a step up from the old honor system. However, all arena really does is condense the time needed to grind out your rank. And even then, you can easily achieve a high rank just by queue dodging and beating scrub teams for 5 points a match. Not much different from pug bashing, is it? Skill and ability obviously shows up a lot more in arena, however, I don't think that it as much of a determining factor for the Gladiator title as some people would like to believe (at least not in 2's and 3's).
As odd as this may seem, the old PVP system encouraged competitive PVP. Now, i don't really mean the ranks, but rather the reward system based on reputation with battlegrounds. You wanted a good weapon or armor, you went to the battlegrounds for it, and you tried to win as hard as you could. The mark turn in quest was, i suppose, crucial for the success of competitive PVP. Nobody wanted to keep a mark or two for each BG in their bags during a raid, taking up space for consumables. Nobody wanted to do 3 AVs for a single rep turn in, and they fought for it.
A for the ranked ladder was a good idea in theory, but it was way too steep; the titles, however, were a great reward in themselves. It made everyone feel like they had something to keep them going to the battlegrounds, day after day. A new title and a new reward or two every week were extraordinary at the time. So, reimplementing the PVP titles would be a great, but could they implement them in a way that is based around competition rather than grinding?
Having each rank unlock a special, unique reward is a great way to encourage and bring life to the PVP system. You get your trinket at rank 1; you get the bracers/belt/boots at the following ranks; then the cloak; following onwards, a weapon 2 ranks later (maybe equivalent to the current gladiator season, but with a proc, instead of stats as an alternative); then jewelry, and maybe gems, enchants, etc... a set of PVP geared enchants/armor kits/spellthread recipes for the crafters. Making the last few ranks unlock minor but visually spectacular upgrades (a few gems, an epic mount... and no, i don't even mean flying... i feel sorry for all the gladiators who can't even show off their netherdrake inside an arena) would theoretically prevent us from being swarmed by Grand Marshals and High Warlords.
And, as a second thought, having new (and different for the 2 factions) rank names may not be so bad (lorewise, Blizz can find a reason, but who cares), since i'm kind of attached to my Knight Captain title and my 33k HKs, even though i know for sure i could have made at least rank 12, i don't want to see people playing 10 battlegrounds to wander around with the same rank, simply because i had to wait in 6 hour AV queues for that rank.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
I really dislike bringing items into the play with such system. Its already enough to have 99% of ingame activity focused for itemization. Sure it would be hippie and cool to get some purples, but I think that in long run it just twist the competition and focus attention in wrong things. That way people would be "forced" to grind new title to be competitive. From first glance it sounds like a great idea, but overall it just destroys the meaning of such system. There should be fun activities in this game that are purely there for doing things, not working for item X.
Its a bit hard to fight against windmills in WoW where people take item rewards as granted. I know that things can be load of fun and extremely addictive even if the reward isnt anything else but some psychological title that has no effect on your char perfomance. It can be done, it has been done and it is fun. Maybe it doesnt sound such for those who have only played WoW, but thats my opinnion for item rewards. Too much is just too much.
I doubt many people would've tried to grind to GM/HWL if there wasn't an item incentive involved. Wasting that much time for a title that isn't entirely that prominent ingame doesn't seem like a very appealing idea. There has to be some sort of benefit gained from doing it other than the "hay guyz look at my name" deal. The only real alternative to phat purpz is probably some sort of graphic change to your character that is much more noticeable than a name plate. Even this, however, would be difficult to accomplish since it would very likely interfere with other ingame spell effects unless it was something very unique. I think one thing that Blizzard should do more of is introduce special mounts, trinket, and pets to be gained from titles or something. I've always found collecting stuff like that fun (I have like 11 mounts in my bank, even the one I got at level 40).
I doubt many people would've tried to grind to GM/HWL if there wasn't an item incentive involved. Wasting that much time for a title that isn't entirely that prominent ingame doesn't seem like a very appealing idea.
Eh, isnt that quite obvious? Not like someone said that the old system would have been fun for title, duh.
Originally Posted by Himiko
There has to be some sort of benefit gained from doing it other than the "hay guyz look at my name" deal. The only real alternative to phat purpz is probably some sort of graphic change to your character that is much more noticeable than a name plate. Even this, however, would be difficult to accomplish since it would very likely interfere with other ingame spell effects unless it was something very unique. I think one thing that Blizzard should do more of is introduce special mounts, trinket, and pets to be gained from titles or something. I've always found collecting stuff like that fun (I have like 11 mounts in my bank, even the one I got at level 40).
As I said, many many many games have succesfully created fun ingame activity without making them item based. That is plain false assumption based on the fact that Blizzard have had habit of putting every single thing for item system. Its more of an reference to Diablo than other MMORPGs, what you are used to see as "ojective" for WoW. It doesnt mean that other options can not be used if 99% of game activity only focus on items and 1% on Arena titles/mounts.
Its about competitive human nature. Its only creating small respect based system on relatively fair conditions that show details about players PvP style. There is absolutely no need for item rewards in such system. Its all about your personal gameplay tactics, teamplay tactics and your own attitude towards BG objectives.
One could say it is skill. Since that term is so over abused in current gaming I would rather use word commitment.
So you're telling me people are going to grind for days of /played time to get a title for their character? Doesn't sound very appealing to me, although I guess the uniqueness of the title might attract some people (depending on how hard it is to get). The reason Blizzard focuses on items - pretty much solely - is due to the fact that without some sort of tangible benefit to be gained people aren't going to put in time to grind out something. At least that's the way I see it. Pets, mounts and stuff like that are not only a physical representation, but they're fun to have around. I don't think a title would do the same thing. Aside from this, there's also the whole issue of there actually being a point to showing off a flashy title. I use my Field Marshal title as more of a "yeah, I was there way back, and I wasted a ton of time grinding this title out" type of thing rather than actually expecting to get any sort of respect from it. People aren't going to respect you for something like that, or for Gladiator; I don't see how any other PvP title would be different (the only really unique one is the Scarab-Lord title). Anyway, my point is, you, as well as others know you're good when other good players associate with you, not because you got a title.
However, as I mentioned earlier I think that it would be interesting to have titles based on battleground objectives, as this might at least give people some inclination towards them rather than just farming HKs.
Just off the top of my head: Returner (1,000 WSG flag caps), Defender (1,000 WSG flag returns), Protector (Defend 1,000 AB points). Something like that, but less lame ;p.
What current titles show from honor system? As you mentioned, they only show that someone had shitload of spare time to grind. Thats exactly same as your suggested simplified objective based titles. My Rank 14 titles has absolutely no other message than that I did the grind. It did not require me to do anything remarkable than have spare time. We even had hired "keke" players in our server to grind rank14 for 1 warrior during the same time as I ranked. He was in Bgs 24/7, either running around like mindless zombie or idling at start. Yet he got Rank14.
Military Ranks in WoW need some kind of measure to evaluate what player have contributed in PvP. It gives good chunk of immersion for doing pvp, and it can be fun metagame to encourage world pvp. Adding another epic item to Halaa pvp vendor is not encouraging pvp because its fun. Its encouraging pvp because there is 1 item that player needs to stay comeptitive.
The problem I see with itemization is that people who do not wish to participate are forced to join the ladder in order to remain competitive with their gear. Main objective should be being good at PvP in personal level or BG teamplay. Measuring who captures flags, who defends flags, who has most Halaa captures and in world pvp who have participated by killing enemy players (With exception of heavily penalizing gankers in point distribution). You should be volunteer to participate, thats the very base of doing things for fun. Why do people play games? Are they forced to do so because they get some reward from it? No, they are actually paying for it to have fun without real meaning.
What current titles show from honor system? As you mentioned, they only show that someone had shitload of spare time to grind. Thats exactly same as your suggested simplified objective based titles. My Rank 14 titles has absolutely no other message than that I did the grind. It did not require me to do anything remarkable than have spare time. We even had hired "keke" players in our server to grind rank14 for 1 warrior during the same time as I ranked. He was in Bgs 24/7, either running around like mindless zombie or idling at start. Yet he got Rank14.
You're correct, my suggestion is the same as the previous Rank 1-14 system in terms of it being a grind. The point is (if you read my original posts) that this is an alternative to re-enabling the Rank 1-14 titles. Doing so would allow for some uniqueness in player titles, which in my opinion is pretty important. But oh well, it's Blizzard after all. I doubt they'll change their minds about it.
Originally Posted by Cromfel
Military Ranks in WoW need some kind of measure to evaluate what player have contributed in PvP. It gives good chunk of immersion for doing pvp, and it can be fun metagame to encourage world pvp. Adding another epic item to Halaa pvp vendor is not encouraging pvp because its fun. Its encouraging pvp because there is 1 item that player needs to stay comeptitive.
As far as your idea of military ranks, can you give some more through examples? I threw out the idea of getting titles for certain actions in BGs because I think it would increase incentive for people to actually play correctly. This addition would hopefully eliminate the idea that mindlessly zerging the one Horde at farm while losing all four other points as being a good game of pug AB.
Originally Posted by Cromfel
The problem I see with itemization is that people who do not wish to participate are forced to join the ladder in order to remain competitive with their gear. Main objective should be being good at PvP in personal level or BG teamplay. Measuring who captures flags, who defends flags, who has most Halaa captures and in world pvp who have participated by killing enemy players (With exception of heavily penalizing gankers in point distribution). You should be volunteer to participate, thats the very base of doing things for fun. Why do people play games? Are they forced to do so because they get some reward from it? No, they are actually paying for it to have fun without real meaning.
See what I said above. Also, this is why I suggested giving out "fun" rewards like pets, costumes and mounts. You don't need them to stay competitive. However, you're still going to have to grind out something to get them. Anyway, I think your system is far too complex; there's easier methods to accomplish what you're thinking.
Adding punishment on loosing a BG game would greatly increase games quality. The problem is not the current system, or titles, or anything else. The problem is that most people do not care if they loose a game so they do not play the BG as it was intended to be played.
Adding punishment in a form or another would stop a lot of people from watching TV while moving the mouse randomly from time to time.
Adding punishment on loosing a BG game would greatly increase games quality. The problem is not the current system, or titles, or anything else. The problem is that most people do not care if they loose a game so they do not play the BG as it was intended to be played.
Adding punishment in a form or another would stop a lot of people from watching TV while moving the mouse randomly from time to time.
It would stop people like you and me from going at it half-assed. It would also make people like you and me cry when we lose because every other random in the team sucks hardcore or doesn't care about their rank or both. There should never be a penalty for losing something you have no control over. By yourself you control your own actions. With premade groups you choose who you team with. In random pugs you roll 14 dice and hope that the numbers that come up and your worth together are greater than the 15 dice the game rolled for the other side.
10/04/07, 8:24 PM
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