I have to say, that although the rogue bonus isn't something surprising, but maybe a little diversity here would be fine? Something along the lines of a PPM armor penetration boost?

Yeah, I mean, who in their right mind would wear crystalforge in a 4 dps team?

The World of Warcraft Armory

Yeah I guess the number two team in BG9 isn't skilled.

I'd say have the Hunter 4 piece allow all of their pets to use scorpid poison. I realize I'm being a bit facetious, but 1 sec off multishot really doesn't seem like a worthwhile bonus at all.

For my Resto Druid alt, I will cry if they change the current 4-piece. Travel Form that moves at 160% of normal run speed is truly amazing.

You can throw in the Multi-shot bonus instead of you want that's a 10% decrease..... and saying you should take it out of 30 seconds is kinda ridiculous since no pvp warrior in the world has a 30 sec cd on intercept before the set bonus. The bonus should be something like 2 secs of intercept or 1 sec off whirlwind to put it in line with the other bonuses.

As another hunter already said, back in the AQ40/Naxx days I had the 4 piece bonus (-2min CD von Rapid shots) and the talent didn't stack! This is the way it should be with intercept aswell (especially concidering the changes coming where warriors can get the all you need for pvp package and concussive blow aswell).

The problem with the Hunter bonus is that it's situational. The bonus should be something more of a direct damage buff that applies to either all Hunter attacks or maybe some sort of cast time reduction, since that seems to be the new "in" thing. One idea would be reducing the Aimed Shot CD by 1.5 seconds, maybe only as a proc when you or your pet crits. Another idea would be improving Raptor Strike crits to deter people from deadzoning Hunters. Although, with Blizzard's promised fix to this issue, maybe that's not necessary.

As far as the Feral bonus goes, it's the same concept as Natural Perfection. If you don't need it (maxed out on Resil, or in this case, enough speed to catch people anyway), then put the points somewhere else. I realize you're losing 4% dodge, but the Feral Tree is so amazing that maybe it's worth it. I'm sure there's something to be gained from those 2 points.

That would make sense but I don't want felhunters to gain resilience because I hate them.

As for the feral four piece, I'm surprised to see someone ask for a change there. Movement speed is always a good thing and is certainly superior to most set bonuses. I've seen some ferals skip it and get two piece tier 5 for instant regrowths but I think most would agree that it's a great bonus.

I really wish they'd give Envenom a cast time and give us pushback resist for it as our 4pc.


SIGH

I feel as though the Hunter 4-pc bonus was thought of in a PvE setting, then implemented for a PvP setting. For MM Hunters (the vast majority of arena Hunters), Multishot is our highest damage shot in PvE, and 1 second off its cooldown is not too terrible of a set bonus (for a 2-pc). However, in PvP, Hunters rarely have the time to Multishot every time it's up as it is, and so the set bonus will be very situational as stated by other Hunters.

To put us in line with other classes, a bonus like one of these would be fair, I believe:

1) 70% pushback resist on steady shot (comparable to shaman bonus).
2) -3 sec on Viper Sting cooldown (comparable to warrior bonus)
3) Anything reducing trap cooldown, increasing duration, or increasing area of effect
4) Allowing Hunters to go back to stacking two 35 resil set bonuses
5) etc. etc.

It is the PTR though, so it's not locked in stone just yet.

It would actually be -4 seconds off viper sting to make it comparable with warrior set bonus.

8 seconds for traps.

Wow, no one told me this before :/. Guess I need to l2p.

If a Paladin gets caught in the open by casters (the only real damage they have to worry about) that is the Paladin's fault, and has nothing to do with what gear they currently are wearing. Wearing full Lightbringer would put my armor at around 18000 unbuff i think, so melee damage isn't a concern in the least.

This is precisely why PvE bonuses do matter. We cheat at times with our rogue and mage wearing varying levels of PvE DPS gear as well. The only person who never, ever, ever wears pve gear is our Warrior.

Fear is dispelled as easily as polymorph. Polymorph is good at controlling warriors, which are arguable the hart of almost any good 5v5 team. You don't get as many resists on polymorph because your cc tree isn't the same as your dmg tree. The fact that it breaks on damage is a strong point to fear, but fear is more easily countered than polymorph. Shadow resist is the only resist that matters in arenas. A rogue or warrior pummeling you on shadow (the only school they'd ever lockout) prevents you from ccing. A rogue doing the same to a mage on most attacks will not lock out polymorph.

Here's my 2 cents:

- Polymorph has X things going for and against it.
- Fear has Y things going for and against it.
- Therefore I think Polymorph/Fear is best.



... why are we having this conversation? Is it going to achieve anything? We all know the pros and cons of each and we all have our preference (or no preference), listing those pros and cons is not going to change anyone's mind.

On subject I don't like the shaman bonus. I think shaman should have pushback resisitance since they have no escapes/DoTs/CCs to work around pushback, but I don't think it should be in the set bonus. Those sort of things either should stay in talent trees where they traditionally belong, or everyone should get bonuses like that. Here we have any shaman without 4pc gladiator missing a pretty important bonus, and every other class gets to be envious that their 4pc is not as good. It's lose/lose.

Well out of all the WoW classes, the paladin is the only one who can get away with lots of PvE gear, because of their massive survivability and unparalelled utility. Melee doesn't bother them, and they can LoS casters. So yeah, they are the exception.

The problem with the hunter bonus for me is that -1 second off of a cooldown is an awfully small amount of time to go from useful to uselessness. The arcane shot talent has the same problem. Havings shots get bottlenecked so to speak, coupled with all the movement that is needed to maintain distance, it becomes easy to see that the bonus would spend a lot of time not benefiting the user.

Well, the biggest problem with the bonus is that it doesn't play to a hunter's role in arenas at all. Pretty much all of the top teams with hunters in any bracket are mana burn/outlast based, and a cooldown reduction on a pure DPS skill doesn't really do anything to support that. But yeah, on top of that the fact that hunter DPS is often mitigated by LOS and range makes it unlikely that a 1s cooldown reduction is likely to have any meaningful impact - I certainly don't even cast multishot every time it's up already.

If they gave pets resilience then how would you ever beat warlock/pally as melee/healer? Currently at least the warlock has to summon a VW against melee teams, costing him the felhunter goodies. But with resilience the felhunter would be even more insane than it already is. If anything that pet needs a swift kick in the soft parts.

Maybe a deep hunter talent to give their pets resilience proportional to the hunter's resilience.

Mage

New Equip-bonus on Mage gloves: Gives you a 50% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting Polymorph.

Yey?

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I think that's a bit exaggerated. Not attacking a paladin on a 4DPS team has very little to do with survivability or utility. They are actually the least threatening target. You can completely shut down their healing with one counterspell - why waste your time attacking them? That just leaves their other 4 DPS alone to rape your team. It's much better to go after a DPS and hopefully shut them down, while tossing a simple interrupt on the paladin, or even just burning your target down despite his or her heals.

You don't really get away with PvE gear as a paladin in all setups, either. I just found the utility/survivability comment interesting because I think that was the conventional wisdom when arena started (paladins take too long to kill!), while now it has really evolved to more of a "they are the least threatening, so why bother?" You leave a priest alone, he mana burn rapes your team. Leave a druid alone, you are basically playing 4v5 the whole game. The same goes for most classes. Regardless of what you do to a paladin, he/she is only going to be doing one thing - healing - so there's really no point in attacking him unless you can't control his healing. Most of the time, anyway.

The reason why nobody goes on the paladin is because if you expose yourself to risking focus fire on the paladin and he bubbles, you basically wasted all your initial burst and exposed yourself to a huge risk.

The only teams that can get away with focusing a paladin first have to include a disc priest, and pray that the disc priest isn't getting focus fired/stunned as you switch to the paladin.

The idea that paladins are the least threatening class so nobody focuses them is completely meaningless, they are extremly well represented in arenas, so they obviously aren't a non-threat, if they were a non-threat, they wouldn't get carried.

A disc priest is a lot easier to focus because a rogue completely shuts down every mana-burn a priest will cast, while a paladin is completely immune to all the pushback a rogue will put out.

That misses the point. Threatening is relative to a particular moment. If you go against a 4 DPS team with a rogue, paladin, and 3 casters, and get on the paladin, you are going to get raped by the other 4 DPS. Not attacking the paladin has little to nothing to do with his bubble or his 17k armor. You have to control their damage output, and the best way to do that is to focus one or more of their DPS, CC the rest as much as possible, and CS the paladin. It's one of the reasons many teams have switched from a warrior to a rogue on 4 DPS setups. In addition to their more controllable burst damage and lockdowns, the rogue is way harder to kill at the onset of a game. A good counter to a warrior 4 DPS was to just blow up their warrior and CS the paladin; it's harder to do that with a rogue.

So yes, paladin survivability is not the main reason you can wear PvE gear as a paladin on a 4 DPS team. It's because you are the least threatening member of that team since you can be completely controlled without being focused, so why bother focusing you?

This is specifically related to 4 DPS and paladins, btw, I'm not talking at all about other setups (paladins in PvE gear on 2.5 or 2 healer teams are much rarer).