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Old 10/24/07, 9:15 AM   #16
Adrammelech
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Scarlet Crusade
Yes, I did forget the sweeping strike change, and it is nice. I just don't know if I'd say with all the changes that warriors got buffed.

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Old 10/24/07, 9:15 AM   #17
nfw
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warrior
 
Area 52
They seem to care a lot about arena and ignore all other forms of PvP, as evident by the buffs to hunters and rogues, and the senseless shuffling of warrior talents, making me think that they are just trying to please everyone, and in the end, no one.

If they truly understand arena, or "e-sport", they would have created a completely separate ruleset for it.

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Old 10/24/07, 9:27 AM   #18
Rieux
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Night Elf Druid
 
Vashj
Originally Posted by Aciara View Post
I've seen this quite a few times now, and I always go back to mmo-champ and check the notes and always fail to see how I'm getting a major buff next patch. Would you care to elaborate please?
Instant form switching is going to be a huge buff in the next patch. Being able to go from bear to travel form in one click will be huge. Apart from that, Intensity being doubled in effectiveness is certainly not insignificant. Druids were already the most efficient healers in the lower brackets, and this only makes them better.

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Old 10/24/07, 9:47 AM   #19
Xavias
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Korgath
Originally Posted by Aciara View Post
I've seen this quite a few times now, and I always go back to mmo-champ and check the notes and always fail to see how I'm getting a major buff next patch. Would you care to elaborate please?
Instant form switching macro's are going to be insane, as well as the extra mana regen (especially with BT gear, which my Druid often uses) and range buff on Abolish poison is huge against Rogues. (their arch-nemesis)

Last edited by Xavias : 10/24/07 at 9:52 AM.

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Old 10/24/07, 9:49 AM   #20
Herrera
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Originally Posted by Rieux View Post
Instant form switching is going to be a huge buff in the next patch. Being able to go from bear to travel form in one click will be huge. Apart from that, Intensity being doubled in effectiveness is certainly not insignificant. Druids were already the most efficient healers in the lower brackets, and this only makes them better.
Seconded.

If you are in a shapeshift form and try to use an ability that may only be used in caster form, you will leave the form and use that ability. This means that you can shift from one form to another in one action. If you don’t have mana to shift form, you will get an error message and remain in your current form. This can be disabled with /console autoUnshift 0
This will greatly reduce the gap to what is now known as "good druid" and "great druid". It will definitely make players will lower response skill perform better. I know I will love Maim from bear form after I charged/bashed a target. Actually, when I read this change this morning I thought it was either a joke or a bug. Sure it will suck having our bars filled up with all kinds of skills and more actions hotkeyed, but I don't complain.
As for the rest of the druid changes, there's no significant buff, besides the Intensity change which is in line with the spirit addition to our pvp set, which is only useful and buff after you've used Innervate. However, I have to mention again, the above quoted change is just HUGE. I play with 150-200 latency and this will greatly improve my reactions on time.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:08 AM   #21
 sadris
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Mal'Ganis
I think the fact that they aren't severely nerfing the most over-represented class (Warriors) shows how little they play arenas. Mages were within the allowable percent representation (ie: balanced); why is Ice Block getting another nerf? Subtlety is a terrible tree and anyone who knows anything knows that Rogues spec combat maces; they're fiddling with the wrong tree. Their solution to shadow damage-overpoweredness (over-effectiveness?) is to not only disallow gear swapping, but give them spell penetration on PVP gear in 2.3.

So I would say no, they don't understand it.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:29 AM   #22
Nurru
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Nurru
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You'd be surprised how many members of Nurfed and other prominent pvp/arena guilds work at Blizzard. Also, as of right now Kalgan's 5v5 team is 2100+ in 5v5 on bg9, so I presume he has some idea of what it's about. I really don't think we need more whine threads on this sort of subject. The issue of pve and pvp balance always mucks up the works.

Hypothermia duration got increased because 30 seconds was short enough to let mages buy the time needed to iceblock a second time.
I still laugh at this blue explanation though. It's as if they think Mages should most definitely die after that nice .5 second MD goes off.

Last edited by Nurru : 10/24/07 at 10:49 AM.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:39 AM   #23
Aciara
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Tauren Druid
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
Originally Posted by Xavias View Post
Instant form switching macro's are going to be insane, as well as the extra mana regen (especially with BT gear, which my Druid often uses) and range buff on Abolish poison is huge against Rogues. (their arch-nemesis)


Yes, so this extra manaregen which you are talking about is going to come from where? Because every other Post I've seen on these boards says the exact opposite, which is also my understanding as I'm never out of my 5 second rule unless I'm cc'ed in 5on5 (which is also the only place I'd understand using BT gear in, as playing against a warrior/rogue in 2on2 without the 15% seems really hard). As to the other thing you mentioned this wasn't in the notes I saw on mmo so omg I'm looking forward to that, no more cat-form-lag-switching.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:42 AM   #24
Hozz
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Tauren Warrior
 
Suramar
I dont get why they are so scared of having different rules for different brackets.

It would make it a lot easier to balance the game.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:50 AM   #25
Hodan
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Draenei Shaman
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by Aciara View Post
Yes, so this extra manaregen which you are talking about is going to come from where? Because every other Post I've seen on these boards says the exact opposite, which is also my understanding as I'm never out of my 5 second rule unless I'm cc'ed in 5on5 (which is also the only place I'd understand using BT gear in, as playing against a warrior/rogue in 2on2 without the 15% seems really hard). As to the other thing you mentioned this wasn't in the notes I saw on mmo so omg I'm looking forward to that, no more cat-form-lag-switching.
Intensity is being doubled in effectiveness, from 15% to 30% in combat regen (the same is true for priests and mages).

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Old 10/24/07, 10:52 AM   #26
 Zak
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Zak
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Originally Posted by Viscera View Post
Especially in 5v5 when you intercept someone with a full rage bar who´s about to be focus fired who´s clumped up with someone and cast sweeping strikes for some nasty sidedamage that has to be healed as well (also imagine if they are stupid enough to be in a group of 4 and you start off with a 8 hit whirlwind)
No matter how much I wish it was still the case, you can't do an 8-hit WW since they patched that out years ago. Sure was great fun when you could though.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:53 AM   #27
Xavias
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Korgath
Originally Posted by Aciara View Post
Yes, so this extra manaregen which you are talking about is going to come from where? Because every other Post I've seen on these boards says the exact opposite, which is also my understanding as I'm never out of my 5 second rule unless I'm cc'ed in 5on5 (which is also the only place I'd understand using BT gear in, as playing against a warrior/rogue in 2on2 without the 15% seems really hard). As to the other thing you mentioned this wasn't in the notes I saw on mmo so omg I'm looking forward to that, no more cat-form-lag-switching.
I think you may have misunderstood here... the change is an increase in a talent from 15% regen in casting to 30%, hence its a buff directly influencing your in-combat casting regeneration, and has nothing to do with your regen outside of 5 sec casting.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:53 AM   #28
heel
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Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Xavias View Post
Statistically Warriors, Druids and Warlocks have the edge on Arena combat at the moment. Next patch we are seeing:

- Buff to Druids
- Buff to MS Warriors
- Slight nerf to Warlocks
- No major buffs to any other class, save Ret pallys.(yes, I left out Hunters because its not a big buff, as everyone seems to think)
Rogues are getting some pretty substantial buffs in 2.3. Holy priests are also getting a lot of love with Fear Ward for everyone and Chastise for Dwarves/Draenei. Night Elf shadow priests are getting a monster buff. Enhancement shamans got some nice buffs, perhaps even enough to make them viable. It's not all doom and gloom. The one relevant druid buff (the shapeshifting change) was more of a UI streamlining thing to help players with high latency, and it definitely matters for shadow priests as well. Although druids are already unreasonably powerful, I can see the justification for this change.

I do agree, though, that the warrior changes seem unreasonable. A talent tree rework is a big thing nowadays, and not something that happens very often - and this one was done to apply a buff to what is already an ubiquitous class in arenas. Changes like this, without some substantial compensating rebalancing in the other direction, just don't make sense.

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Old 10/24/07, 10:58 AM   #29
Adrammelech
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Originally Posted by heel View Post
I do agree, though, that the warrior changes seem unreasonable. A talent tree rework is a big thing nowadays, and not something that happens very often - and this one was done to apply a buff to what is already an ubiquitous class in arenas. Changes like this, without some substantial compensating rebalancing in the other direction, just don't make sense.
Not to sound like a broken record, but what exactly does this change? What buff will any Arena specced warrior gain from the talent placement change?

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Old 10/24/07, 11:00 AM   #30
Siddown
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Undead Rogue
 
Lightninghoof
Before even reading beyond the first post in this thread I played a game with myself and guessed who would post, and what they would post. So far, I've guessed a few correctly and we're only on page 1. Regardless of the intent of the OP, this is likely to degrade into a "Bliz doesn't even play their own game because they didn't buff my class" thread, that or at the very least the same disgruntled people rehashing their same complains in another thread.

But until it does, one major PvP change which will mainly affect the Arena I haven't even seen mentioned in 2.3 is the fix to Resiliance double penalizing people with added crit damage bonus talents. While technically this affects specs like Destruction Locks (all three of them in the Arena) and Rogues with Lethality, the reality is it punishes Frost Mages the most. Blizzard has acknowledged the bug and said they were trying to get it in. This "buff" (re: bug fix) will help out Frost Mages immensly.

Back to the original question, yes of course Blizzard plays their Arena, it's simply that balancing classes isn't easy. We like to think it is, but it's not.

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