Arena Map Design - Page 2

Juli · 10/31/07, 10:29 AM

A larger open space could be interesting. Something like a small farm with a single house, set inside a narrow valley. This could add to strategy and have some teams try to draw others out into the open versus fighting near the LOSable object. It would also be possible to have water in arenas that is slightly too deep to walk in without swimming - something like a narrow river running through the map. Here's a picture to illustrate:

Thinking about this also made me realize that all the current maps are really drab and dull looking. It'd be a nice change of pace to have a 'green' or more colorful landscape.

Acustar · 10/31/07, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Juli

A larger open space could be interesting. Something like a small farm with a single house, set inside a narrow valley. This could add to strategy and have some teams try to draw others out into the open versus fighting near the LOSable object. It would also be possible to have water in arenas that is slightly too deep to walk in without swimming - something like a narrow river running through the map. Here's a picture to illustrate:

Thinking about this also made me realize that all the current maps are really drab and dull looking. It'd be a nice change of pace to have a 'green' or more colorful landscape.

With the river idea, I'd personally prefer not to give druids yet another "run away" mechanic. But you could start with a very wide area, then have it progressively get smaller, and eventually be the same size as current arenas. Just like they should make Loraderon (sp) starting areas turn into a burning inferno ~30 seconds after a match starts. I do agree about the colors, make them brighter or different.

Vectivus · 10/31/07, 4:41 PM

I would like to see a map where the preparation area is above the arena, and players are 'dropped' into the arena (the entire floor of the prep room is an elevator that lowers down and sinks into the arena floor). I continue to loathe any strategy that incorporates hiding in the preparation area - this isn't a sniper game, and 'strategy' in a game of swords and spells should not be to hide or wait for your opponent indefinitely.

Nadiar · 10/31/07, 8:52 PM

Originally Posted by Deris

More maps, some with more LOS, others with less - maybe even a maze type map where you can't see the opposing team until you come right up on them. I'd like to actually be happy/sad when we get a certain map, instead I just say "Oh good, Lordaeron drinkspam time."

Hopefully Blizzard creates more maps in both directions of extremes, less/more obstacles and gives us real reasons to be happy or pissed that we pulled a certain map vs. a certain team makeup.

Yeah, I think it would be an interesting take on Arena's to have maybe 6-8 different area's which favor different play styles. But on the same hand, just no. It's already annoying enough that the game ends up being a Paper-Rock-Scissors match. Can you imagine playing a Mage in point blank combat situations? Or a Rogue/Warrior in a multi-tiered instance allowing ranged users to nuke them down or DoT them up?

The thing about LoS that I think Blizzard missed in RoL is that you ideally want a few different things for players to dodge behind so they can get off that quick heal, but at the same time, it should only take 1 to 1.5 seconds for the other player to put them back in line of site, and the objects should be small enough that they're impossible to kite someone around.

Darkmantle · 11/01/07, 9:05 AM

All I can say to trivial amounts of water is this. Not to mention the next one

The thing that occured to me when discussing open arena's with a friend is that soldiers are loath to leave cover. While their might not be guns in arena there are hunter, mages, warlocks, shamans, druid, priests. All of whom I have no interest in standing and taking it from.

I really would like to see people take their arena 5's teams and fight it out in the middle of the arena in DM and see how they like it.

Kaber · 11/01/07, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Reubarb

In my opinion, arenas are supposed to be a way to prove which players can use their classes' abilities in combination with their teammates' abilities to beat an equal number of players.

The environment should not play a role in determining who wins and who loses.

I think Nagrand Arena is the best example of what an arena map should look like simply because it has the least amount of obstructions. All it has are the four pillars (around the outside) used to line of sight people in comparison to Lordaeron which has a coffin (or something) right in the middle where people should be fighting and not dancing over. It shouldn't be a test of what class can better navigate up the cracks and crevices of that coffin thing in order to get that rogue off of them. Blades Edge obviously has the most obstructions (pillars, bridge/2 tiers...) that can be used to the advantage of different classes depending on different situations.

The fact is that if it gets down to a 1v1 in any given arena, the player who knows how to better use the environment to their advantage could beat a player who, without those obstructions, would win. I don't think that's how the game should be.

But that also poses the question of does using the environment to your advantage make you a better player?

I believe that it does make you a better player -- adapting to your surroundings is an extremely smart playstyle.

But I do think there would be much different outcomes in arena matches if the surroundings didn't make a difference and were equal for everyone regardless of who you were matched up against. That's the way I think it should be.

Arena size plays a very large role in the success (or lack thereof) for a number of classes. Specifically, Hunters require large amounts of wide open space where we cannot be cramped in order to kite effectively. Arenas could double in size from what they currently are and still not be large enough.

Darkmantle · 11/02/07, 12:41 AM

It's already fairly common to despawn pets in Lordaeron and sometimes in BEA. Making something twice as large would make pet despawning extremely trivial. The current arena sizes allow kiting but due to their size eventually force you to turn around in some manner, if you go to the big wide world outside druids are almsot impossible to catch if they can cheetah off into the distance.

Ceress · 11/02/07, 4:05 PM

The problem with Nagrand and Lordaeron right now is the shape of the pillars/tomb. Bear with me this is a LOS QQ.

Because these obstacles are circular, if the runner class and chaser class are moving at the same speed, it is possible to be out of LOS 100% of the time forever. The only way to break the pillar spin is to snare or stun the runner. I'd like to see future arenas move away from this circle shape to give LOS a 'cooldown'. LOS is a great feature and makes arena games fun, but it should be something you can only use once until you get to the next obstacle. Like you can jump off the bridge in BEM, but once you have jumped once and broken LOS, the other team has some time to catch up to you in the open until you get to the next obstacle (if the pillars weren't there).
Consider the following obstacle (viewed top-down, open space in the center)
The two corners can be used to break LOS from the other team once, but after the other team gets around the corner, you cannot continually run away from them like in Nagrand, instead to break LOS again you have to go back through them. You can still break LOS, just with a cooldown now.

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Bnol · 11/03/07, 11:46 AM

I really like the idea of being dropped into the arena or just have the starting area completely open up, or release falmes or a poison cloud or something. I really hate a waiting game so I do like the shadow sight and I would like more things to force action.

They can improve BEA by making the ramps less steep. One of the biggest complaints that my paladin friend has is that the ramps block los, ie he is on the top and somone is at the bottom of a ramp he can't get a heal off (particularly for our gnome 3v3 partner). They should also make the supports narrower, enough width that you can line of sight, but you can't cirle indefinitely. I also feel that the pillars in Nagrand could be reduced slightly. Everyone uses line of slight and it is an effective strat, but the size of the pillars really reduces the skill it takes, and gives even more of an advantage to hots and dots (this is mostly in 2s and 3s). So they could have slight modifications to maps based on brackets.

Lordaeron could easily fixed by getting rid of all the cosmetic crap in that arena and making the tomb more uniform, and then releasing a poison/plague cloud in the starting areas after 1 min or something. That plague cloud could last for 15 sec or so or could not hurt the other team to allow for people to get back into a room to use it to drink, this would make added strategy at trying to charge the other team and fight near their starting area. Just an idea to stop people from just sitting in the room.

I like Ceress's idea or rectangular LOS objects. It makes a lot of sense to add those "cooldowns" to LOS.

For a new arena, I was thinking of a circular arena with two oval/rectangular mounds that would block like of sight if you were on either side of the mound, but would not block LOS from the top of the mound to the ground. The two mounds would be ~20 yards apart, there would be no bridge between them. You could ascend the mounds on any side and descend them on any side, but the grade would be such that you could not jump and gain advantage over a pet. The starting area would be a part of the circular arena and would open up fully so there really would be no place to hide and wait. It is a nice and simple design. It allows pets to not be kited forever, it allows LOS blocks, but the fact that you can run over the mounds keeps people from blocking LOS for a long time.

Osse · 11/03/07, 3:04 PM

Lordaeron doors should close after 1 minute into the battle and if you're inside then the player(s) will automatically be counted as dead. So frustrating when people sometimes camp spawn for 10 minutes knowing that hunter's cant do crap in there.

Howard Roark · 11/04/07, 12:28 AM

A better Nagrand:

Just in my opinion.