In the ruin BG horde has started to make a lot of premades. I made 12k Honor in 6 hours on Saturday on my unguilded pally answering the "LFM AV" There was about 4 pug horde AV groups going at anytime the entire weekend. 40 people would queue and join av whenever 31+ got into the BG. They adopted a strategy that is counter intuitive to the general horde strategy.
groups 1-3 Straight to Stormpike.
groups 4-6 Belinda (after belinda is dead 4 goes to Icewing bunker and 5 goes to Stonehearth bunker and 6 goes back to help D).
groups 7-8 D meet between galv and gy
And the big difference, They do NOT cap Stonehearth GY... EVER. The reason being in a premade it just slows the game down by having alliance spawn anywhere in there base or stormpike.
Basically the good premade pugs (some had better leaders then others) lasted about 13 minutes with 450-600ish points for horde an 0-150 for alliance. The bad premades where closer to 350-450 Horde 150-250 alliance and lasted 21 minutes. Keep in mind these aren't guilds get 40 friends together on vent, these are random people in shat/org spamming LFM AV. No vent no one even using in game voice. the Big difference in the Premade is everyone is participating and has generally agreed by joining the group to follow the strategy. I think my record was 9 minutes with 667 points.
I, too, would really love a link to your source. I understand that the data began being collected on November 13th, but after playing AV for the last 2 weeks, I'd imagine that Horde on Vindication battlegroup would have gone up to at least 30-35% of wins. I've seen more losses as Alliance this past AV weekend alone than wins.
Speaking of premades, this weekend on the Frostmourne server (Bloodlust BG) we (Alliance faction) had something special going. With the help of group queuing mods for AV, we were able to get large numbers of our raid on to the same AV (talking between 25 - 35+ people). We had a win ratio of about 90% which is pretty good considering Bloodlust has the most vicious Horde of all. What was even more surprising was that using similar strategy I was even able to get 4 PUG AV's to win. Slightly different tactics but still similar.
I am not going to publish the 'exact' winning strategy, for the simple reason that due to map imbalances it is easy for the Horde to counter it and force a turtle (We were still able to win these "turtle" matches by adjusting tactics but the time component went up greatly).
But what I would like to stress for the alliance out there is that it is extremely important to not defend Stonehearth. I repeat "Do Not Defend Stonehearth GY". Keep in mind that the Horde will not respawn at the cave if they have a GY available ;-) Have the defense use the SP GY and bridge of death.
The most satisfying thing of all was when we had a large enough group of people in the same BG# we were even able to keep the Horde to under 63 honor. What goes around, comes around.
I do wish something could be done about zoning into a battle that's already decided. I'm Alli Shadowburn and we win very few matches and even worse than dealing with the normal AV gripes is jumping into queue and ending up in an AV that is 200-550, advantage Horde. If you stay or if you go either way you're going to be hard-pressed to get any honor over the next 15 minutes.
Speaking as someone who hadn't played AV since going 0-3 (with a memorable 0-627 honor loss) a week ago I gotta say that jumping into two games that Alli cannot win and basically wasting 30 minutes does not a positive PvP experience make.
This is my solution. A bit over the top, but I'm back and forth on AV. Heck why run AV when you can go undefeated in Premades for 4 weekends in a row....
1. Scale down the map.
2. Change the GYs to 3. 1 on each side (Alliance/Horde). 1 in the middle. This promotes PvP, and the fact that people HAVE to fight each other. Which promotes teamwork, competition and smart playing (Keeping your healers alive, killing the other teams healers) If you only have 1 GY maybe lower the ressurection timers by 5-10 seconds to pump people into the fights. This prepares people for many "what if" situations and could prepare people for arenas. Actually making people fight I would hope actually tought people how to play their classes in PvP.
3. Mirror each sides bosses mini bosses.
4. Keep the mines, allow them to add reinforcements.
and out of left field....
5. Lock the games, don't let people queue into games already starting. Or maybe put this on a timer, say Alliance/Horde gain 5 players every 5 mins. (If 5+ people have AFKed out)
Promote competition, balance, teamwork and fast honor. Overall that's what people want. That will prove "who's better then who"
The new reporting system is quite useful. It only takes 5 people to flag someone as inactive so you can basically dictate where you want people to defend (its 5 people for all BGs, even WSG). Given that "defending" the relief hut is a retarded idea compared to IB pass at the start of a game, with just your 4 other friends you can force those people to join you at IB or be flagged Idle.
Regarding the bonus honor in general, it was discussed in the BG thread that basically the majority of all honor now-adays comes from objectives rather than actual combat which seems counter-intuitive to fight the AFK-epidemic. Increasing the honor you get from killing another player by a factor of 4 to 8 seems like the best solution, especially in non-AV battlegrounds. (Or changing the penalty for being in a raid to a non-linear equation).
The Washington Post helps perpetuate a common and pernicious misreading of the decision, referring to "the Supreme Court’s judgment that corporations have the same rights as people when it comes to political speech." What the Supreme Court actually said is that people do not lose their free speech rights when they organize as corporations, including nonprofit interest groups as well as businesses.
The new reporting system is quite useful. It only takes 5 people to flag someone as inactive so you can basically dictate where you want people to defend (its 5 people for all BGs, even WSG). Given that "defending" the relief hut is a retarded idea compared to IB pass at the start of a game, with just your 4 other friends you can force those people to join you at IB or be flagged Idle.
Regarding the bonus honor in general, it was discussed in the BG thread that basically the majority of all honor now-adays comes from objectives rather than actual combat which seems counter-intuitive to fight the AFK-epidemic. Increasing the honor you get from killing another player by a factor of 4 to 8 seems like the best solution, especially in non-AV battlegrounds. (Or changing the penalty for being in a raid to a non-linear equation).
Your approach would not lead to a happy life on Nightfall.
On Nightfall, we've given up defending Iceblood pass. There's about a 50/50 chance the Alliance hit Galv, but without fail, 5-10 people just charge south and don't stop until they get to the relief hut. You either have enough people at the hut to take out whoever manages to slip by the army at Iceblood, or you give up the hut and possibly both towers. Getting PUGs to defend is hard. Getting PUGs to rally and retake an objective as a group? Impossible. They'll just trickle in one-by-one and get murderized. So we just skip to the end and make our stand at the relief hut. 5-10 people there can completely wipe out the alliance O. Usually, a couple people are also scurrying about the field snatching our towers/GYs back. After this we come out, take our stuff back, and continue on our merry way while hoping O hasn't epic failed.
With this approach we never see those 600-0 games, but we do win more often than not(That 60/40 number quoted above is right on the money) and get 300-500 bonus honor for our trouble. We also have sub-3 minute queues. I'm completely pleased with my lot in life.
The new reporting system is quite useful. It only takes 5 people to flag someone as inactive so you can basically dictate where you want people to defend (its 5 people for all BGs, even WSG). Given that "defending" the relief hut is a retarded idea compared to IB pass at the start of a game, with just your 4 other friends you can force those people to join you at IB or be flagged Idle.
If you did this to me I'd report you for abuse of gamesystems. The afk flag is not for your tyrannical rule of AVs, it's to report people that are afk.
In other news, Horde on Vindication are putting 15+ defense at the IB chokepoint lately, leading to the slow, slugfest, dominating wins that other battlegroups have been seeing for a while. It took four AVs and almost two hours for me to crack 1k honor tonight. And sadly, Alliance overwhelmingly lose all other BGs, so we're pretty much out of luck for honor farming now. I have no idea what in the world Blizzard was thinking when they didn't mirror the maps.
Which really sucks, because two friends just finished leveling characters to 70 and to realistically play with my main, which they'd like to do, they have ~200k honor to grind. I can't even imagine doing that at the current Alliance honor rates.
In other news, Horde on Vindication are putting 15+ defense at the IB chokepoint lately, leading to the slow, slugfest, dominating wins that other battlegroups have been seeing for a while. It took four AVs and almost two hours for me to crack 1k honor tonight. And sadly, Alliance overwhelmingly lose all other BGs, so we're pretty much out of luck for honor farming now. I have no idea what in the world Blizzard was thinking when they didn't mirror the maps.
Which really sucks, because two friends just finished leveling characters to 70 and to realistically play with my main, which they'd like to do, they have ~200k honor to grind. I can't even imagine doing that at the current Alliance honor rates.
Typically, where one side does well in AV the other side tends to dominate the other BGs, this is because even with zero queue time in AV they are choosing instead to form partial or full pre-mades and own one or more of the other BGs. Take a leaf from their book, if AV is no longer working out for you farm one of the other BGs by learning the tactics, forming a full or partial pre-made, and letting everyone know what the tactics are at the start.
If you did this to me I'd report you for abuse of gamesystems. The afk flag is not for your tyrannical rule of AVs, it's to report people that are afk.
In fairness, Blizzard's new policy is against "non-participation" in battlegrounds. Standing around Frostwolf completely idle while the rest of your team is actually fighting up north is pretty non-participatory.
Mon centre cède, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j'attaque.
If you did this to me I'd report you for abuse of gamesystems. The afk flag is not for your tyrannical rule of AVs, it's to report people that are afk.
In other news, Horde on Vindication are putting 15+ defense at the IB chokepoint lately, leading to the slow, slugfest, dominating wins that other battlegroups have been seeing for a while. It took four AVs and almost two hours for me to crack 1k honor tonight. And sadly, Alliance overwhelmingly lose all other BGs, so we're pretty much out of luck for honor farming now. I have no idea what in the world Blizzard was thinking when they didn't mirror the maps.
Which really sucks, because two friends just finished leveling characters to 70 and to realistically play with my main, which they'd like to do, they have ~200k honor to grind. I can't even imagine doing that at the current Alliance honor rates.
Ugh.. I take back everything I said about how good the AV games are on Vindication - since this last weekend, I've won 1 out of 7 games. It seemed like the Horde (as a group) really learned a lot over the AV weekend. I did win a decent number over the weekend due to insubstantial defense by the Horde (5-10 Horde at IB gy can be pretty easily wiped out by the Alliance), but the turtles are getting stronger.
Typically, where one side does well in AV the other side tends to dominate the other BGs, this is because even with zero queue time in AV they are choosing instead to form partial or full pre-mades and own one or more of the other BGs. Take a leaf from their book, if AV is no longer working out for you farm one of the other BGs by learning the tactics, forming a full or partial pre-made, and letting everyone know what the tactics are at the start.
Keyword: typically. On Vindication US, AV was Alliance's only reliable source for honor. Horde have instant queues for every battleground, and in PuG versus PuG match ups, they usually win. In WSG, I'd say it's at least 80-20 in their favor, AB is about 70-30, and EotS is about 90-10. AV used to be 90-10 in Alliance's favor, but I'd say that it's 50-50 at this point (although seemingly tipping further and further in Horde's favor).
My favorite example is how I got both of my shaman's S1 1-handers; I needed 40 EotS tokens for 2, and I had to play 40 EotS games to get enough tokens. I think that's a sign, and I'm just glad that all I have left is grinding another 20k honor for S3 rings.
And forming premade groups isn't always an option for everyone. I'd be getting in on a lot of post-raid BG premades, but I work graveyard shift every weeknight. The only time I have to play is between and after classes as well as weekends. There aren't a whole lot of groups running during the day because, let's face it, people have work and school, and even then, I'm not going to run with groups of people that I don't know or can't trust to perform simple tasks (i.e. guard a node, keep me alive, assist me in killing healers, etc.).
I've played almost every version of AV, from when I killed Korrak to get my Bloodseeker Crossbow (yes, I used Destiny over Ice Barbed Spear) to the current version since I reactiveated my account a week ago. I also lost most of those until the PvE "race compact" was put in place, and the majority after the Vanndar exploit became common knowledge (at least, when I didn't do something about it as a stealth fearbomber). The Alliance on Archimonde *always* lost Alterac Valley prior to the Battlegroup system, and the Stormstrike Horde seem to share that hardcore intelligence.
Anyway...
Frankly, removing all the NPC's was not a good idea. Even when you were getting stomped in AV, and you usually were, you, or you and a couple of other people could go off and kill LT's and still produce some honor. There was little way for the Horde to really stop this as lieutenants could be solo'd by several classes and duo'd by almost any combination. It may have fed the AFKave, but Blizzard has come up with a better solution to that now anyway.
The AFK=ban and loss of gear policy does result in more Alliance fighting, even on Stormstrike. I haven't seen the Horde win one of those fabled "600-0" matches since I reupped shortly after the policy was implemented. Alliance has gotten hammered in the AV's except for premades, but they are killing Horde. They're not winning, but they are killing Horde, and they are frequently at least killing Galv now that everyone is strongly encouraged to play and kill Horde.
With both sides motivated to fight, Blizzard could make the map more complex and with more guaranteed honor per-hour and there would probably be minimal harm done. Some sort of soloable honor factory simply is needed in WoW as it is currently structured. A new 70 needs ~27K in rings, ~ 27K in weapons, almost 50K in "current" minor pieces, 65K in Season 1 armor - and he still hasn't bought any trinkets or a neck. Buying the 70 blues does not significantly shorten the amount of time required.
That's a total of around 170K honor to get up to a mostly out-of-date arena kit. Even if you were gaining 1.2K an hour, which means an honor farm somewhere in the game, that would be over 141 hours. For someone who plays two hours a day, every day, it would take them over two months to get up to this level if they did absolutely nothing other than sit in battlegrounds.
If you reduce that to, say, 600 honor an hour, it now takes almost five months to get that same gear at the same rate of play. Broken AV is causing that sort of honor gain for a lot of people. The Horde have massive ques so they get maybe one battle a day (for the average player) and the Alliance get little per battle. You can que up for the other BG's - and hope you don't get smashed by a premade and earn zero for your trouble. Not to mention the joy of a slow, slow loss in Warsong Gulch.
The alternative to the honor farm is what I saw mentioned further up in the thread, in that you do a comparative handful of quests and are given at least the blue PvP gear.
But the game really needs some way for the average player to get gear in a reasonable timeframe. "Get a premade" doesn't work, and having a broken AV doesn't work. It does obsolete content that the epic gear is available at all, we saw this as far back as 2.0 when everyone and their alt piled into battlegrounds to get GM suits, but Blizzard has made fairly clear they don't care if there is widely available gear that absolutely crushes early, or even middle, Level 70 content.
Keyword: typically. On Vindication US, AV was Alliance's only reliable source for honor. Horde have instant queues for every battleground, and in PuG versus PuG match ups, they usually win. In WSG, I'd say it's at least 80-20 in their favor, AB is about 70-30, and EotS is about 90-10. AV used to be 90-10 in Alliance's favor, but I'd say that it's 50-50 at this point (although seemingly tipping further and further in Horde's favor).
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Bloodlust and Stormstrike the progression was good players left AV to Pug AB/Eots, the quality of both for Alliance improved a lot, then as people became annoyed with the afk's they moved onto Organised groups the quality dropped back. Perhaps in Vindication they are shortcutting the process and moving straight to Organised Eots/AB farming.
If you intent is to level a pvp alt and gear them up through battlegrounds the general advice seems to be do AV at 60 and Eots/Wsg/AB at 69. It has taken me 4 weeks realtime and 1 day played to get 100 AV Tokens and Exalted along with 20k honor on my 60 Shaman. This allows you to join 70 Battlegrounds/Arena at a level where your not cannon fodder.
And forming premade groups isn't always an option for everyone. I'd be getting in on a lot of post-raid BG premades, but I work graveyard shift every weeknight. The only time I have to play is between and after classes as well as weekends. There aren't a whole lot of groups running during the day because, let's face it, people have work and school, and even then, I'm not going to run with groups of people that I don't know or can't trust to perform simple tasks (i.e. guard a node, keep me alive, assist me in killing healers, etc.).
Except that by joining a PuG you are doing exactly that because you don't know them and can't trust them to perform simple tasks. In addition they may well be AFK.
By joining a premade you at least know you will be with 15 people who are at going to make an effort to win the game. Probably they can manage some vague semblence of a strategy (but not always).
Most premades on Hellscream aren't very good - they advertise in the trade channel and take anyone, regardless of skill, gear or spec. However, simply by not having AFK people they still have a huge advantage over the average PuG.
Plus the opponents often don't try very hard, or simply leave the BG if they find out they are up against a premade without taking the time to find out how good/bad the premade is.
Since this tread has evolved into one that discusses honor gain in general, I guess this is the best place to ask this question.
Having recently got back on the honor grind, the main problem in the smaller BGs has been people queing out. You either come into a BG, where you are fully capped with no hope of winning because the game started with a premade that did not want to face another premade. Or you start with a pug that half the people que out when they see a premade leaving you with an incompete team for the beginning of the game, putting you again in an untenable situation. Some premades are hard teams true, but just as many are trade channel Pugs.
Has there been any word from blizzard that see this as an issue at all?
Personally I would like to see the removal of the ability to que out, with a 30 min rather than 15min debuff for leaving early. Along the lines of if you join you play, and it removes you from all other ques. Add a 15 min debuff and removal
from all ques for declining to join a BG when offered, to stop a single person spying out the game. And to balance this out either make it so that you dont get offered a game that is already in progress or at least have the option to only que for fresh games.
Why are you all grinding honor for PvP gear if you don't want to engage in PvP. Just for arena? This is a serious question, not a troll.
And again..... YES!
Since S1 weapons are better for almost every class than any EPIC rep weapon or Kara drop (spell damage S1 better than Stormcaller), and S2 weapons surpass ZA gear (Slicer/Quickblade better than Heartless and it's counterpart), and since arena is horribly jacked and you pretty much need S1 gear to even think about competing. The answer is a resounding YES!
In order to "raise interest" in PvP, Blizz has muddled up PvE and PvP in such a resounding fashion everyone is after what is now normally called "welfare epics". The fastest honor farming possible is the first key to getting those and AV used to be a power source. Winning was essentially irrelevant, and wasting time to deal with the opposite faction equally a waste of time. Now "winning" is still irrelevant, but losing is not near as rewarding (ie: can be worth nothing). If you run in and get a quick win, it's a waste of your time due to the Q's honor/time overall, and if you get beat down slowly over the course of 45mins it's the same end-result.
Now people just gather in whatever the biggest cluster of players they can find in other BG's and go for all-out war, ignoring whatever the BG's objective to get as much Honor/time as they can. All Blizz really needs to do is add a multiplier for the winning team that takes whatever honor they made and go honor x 2 (or whatever), so meeting the objective actually is a benefit, while not nerfing the honor of the losing team to zero, just less than the winners. Good luck getting that implemented though.
Since this tread has evolved into one that discusses honor gain in general, I guess this is the best place to ask this question.
Having recently got back on the honor grind, the main problem in the smaller BGs has been people queing out. You either come into a BG, where you are fully capped with no hope of winning because the game started with a premade that did not want to face another premade. Or you start with a pug that half the people que out when they see a premade leaving you with an incompete team for the beginning of the game, putting you again in an untenable situation. Some premades are hard teams true, but just as many are trade channel Pugs.
Has there been any word from blizzard that see this as an issue at all?
Personally I would like to see the removal of the ability to que out, with a 30 min rather than 15min debuff for leaving early. Along the lines of if you join you play, and it removes you from all other ques. Add a 15 min debuff and removal
from all ques for declining to join a BG when offered, to stop a single person spying out the game. And to balance this out either make it so that you dont get offered a game that is already in progress or at least have the option to only que for fresh games.
A better solution is to create a 10 man arena. The map could simply be Warsong, or possibly a new and more inspired map. But those who wish to solo PvP don't have to concern themselves getting stomped in Battlegrounds by premades. And those that want to premade will be highly rewarded for doing so with arena rewards.
The issue is you would no longer have a super fast reliable way to farm up the 2 rings, cloak, neck, boots, belt, bracers.
Punishing people to hard simply gets them to stop altogether. Alliance are being punished in AV for losing, and therefore if they don't lose, they don't get punished with 45minute 0 honour turtles. Therefore alliance's solution to stop losing is stop queing. You can't lose what you don't play.
Since this tread has evolved into one that discusses honor gain in general, I guess this is the best place to ask this question.
Having recently got back on the honor grind, the main problem in the smaller BGs has been people queing out. You either come into a BG, where you are fully capped with no hope of winning because the game started with a premade that did not want to face another premade. Or you start with a pug that half the people que out when they see a premade leaving you with an incompete team for the beginning of the game, putting you again in an untenable situation. Some premades are hard teams true, but just as many are trade channel Pugs.
Has there been any word from blizzard that see this as an issue at all?
Personally I would like to see the removal of the ability to que out, with a 30 min rather than 15min debuff for leaving early. Along the lines of if you join you play, and it removes you from all other ques. Add a 15 min debuff and removal
from all ques for declining to join a BG when offered, to stop a single person spying out the game. And to balance this out either make it so that you dont get offered a game that is already in progress or at least have the option to only que for fresh games.
This is possibly the stupidest solution I have heard. We are talking about a game here and not setting national policy on social welfare payouts. Stop fucking regulating everything down to a T.
This is a game, Blizzard needs to make it fun 'again' and not kick in balls hard for players. Why shouldn't players have the option to multi-queue? What you are suggesting will have the effect that the Horde on the affected BG's will just stop queuing for AV. Who's got 1-3hours to waste sitting in just 1 queue? Can't even do instances while queued cause the AV could come up anytime. And how do the horde then get AV tokens for honor gear?
Please no more retarded suggestions over-tweaking over-restricting every aspect of this game. Just fix the AV map, increase honor for losing side and most of all lower the honor points requirements for the honor gear. This is the tail end of the expansion. at this current rate of getting honor and then getting honor gear, might as well cancel subscription and wait for the WOTLK gear reset.
This is possibly the stupidest solution I have heard. We are talking about a game here and not setting national policy on social welfare payouts. Stop fucking regulating everything down to a T.
This is a game, Blizzard needs to make it fun 'again' and not kick in balls hard for players. Why shouldn't players have the option to multi-queue? What you are suggesting will have the effect that the Horde on the affected BG's will just stop queuing for AV. Who's got 1-3hours to waste sitting in just 1 queue? Can't even do instances while queued cause the AV could come up anytime. And how do the horde then get AV tokens for honor gear?
Please no more retarded suggestions over-tweaking over-restricting every aspect of this game. Just fix the AV map, increase honor for losing side and most of all lower the honor points requirements for the honor gear. This is the tail end of the expansion. at this current rate of getting honor and then getting honor gear, might as well cancel subscription and wait for the WOTLK gear reset.
I've been trying to get an EoTS daily done on my Palidin alt the last 15 games I've gotten into have been preforms on the other side. All but one I've come in after the prep time and most of those there have been around 5 horde actually in the game. I used to sit these games out mostly as a ghost to avoid being farmed for honor, at this point I've given up and leave the BG to go do something else. Queuing up time and again for 20 bonus honor and 0 kill honor and a single token is not really an acceptable state. The removal of the ablity to que out seems like a great way to help slove the problem.
Perhaps you'd also care to explain how fewer horde queuing for AV, thus significantly lowering the horde queue times is a bad thing?
I'd also add that they really need to stop matching Preforms with non-Prefroms. I'd love to see them put in a cap of 2 or 3 non-preforms to start a BG vs a preform and if one side has enough people leave that they would need to have more then 5 non-preform players total then the BG ends rather then cycling though an endless supply of people for 2 min each in the BG.
I was doing AV late last night trying to finish grinding for my S3 honor ring, and I noticed that in all 7 of my games, Alliance played some form of defense. Sometimes, it was just a handful of people running to Balinda to throw off Horde's pace, and other times, it was easily 15 non-AFK people sitting in the back just waiting for Horde to make a move for any bunker or graveyard. I still lost 5 of the games, but that wasn't the intention of my post.
Quite a few pages back, someone posted something else along these lines: it's simply retarded that Horde can get to Stonehearth Bunker/Graveyard and Balinda before Alliance can. If I'm trying to run straight for Balinda, Horde will get there before I can if I'm delayed for more than a second (mounting lag, getting stuck on terrain while trying to shortcut it, etc.). There's a few seconds of leeway if I'm just going to Stonehearth Graveyard, but Stonehearth Bunker? Forget about it. Just trying to get Horde out of bunkers is hard enough as it is, let alone when they can get there way before you and have 3-5 people sitting and waiting for easy Alliance HKs.
If myself and other Alliance want to be on defense, why is it so hard to do that when Horde can cover their initial 3 positions (Captain Galvangar, Iceblood Tower, and Iceblood Graveyard) without having to rush themselves?
Perhaps you'd also care to explain how fewer horde queuing for AV, thus significantly lowering the horde queue times is a bad thing?
Are you suggesting that the Horde AV queue issue be resolved by making queuing for AV extremely unattractive?
I don't want any infraction points so I am not going respond by saying what I really want but I sincerely hope that none of the Blizzard devs responsible for BG's have the same mentality as you.
Are you suggesting that the Horde AV queue issue be resolved by making queuing for AV extremely unattractive?
I don't want any infraction points so I am not going respond by saying what I really want but I sincerely hope that none of the Blizzard devs responsible for BG's have the same mentality as you.
What I am saying is that a half hour queue for AV in which you could not do other BGs and other BGs that were palyable would be a vast improvement over the current situation. And I think that's what removing the ability to queue out would do.
Over the past 3 days I did 22 EoTS games on Ner'Zhul in Bloodlust. The first 21 I was matched against a preform and for every one of those horde got 20 bonus honor and 1 or 2 HKs raid wide at most. In the ones I got into before or shortly after the prep time was up there were never more then 5 horde that dropped off the starting point. This seems like a pretty big "kick in the balls" to me but an idea that would fix it is "the stupidest solution" you've heard.
If you wanted a compromise you could make it so that taking a queue out of a BG gave you the deserter debuff. Basicly make it so that you could only queue out once every 15 minutes. This would help reduce the problem of preform queuing out against other preforms and still alow you to BG while waiting for AV to pop.
For the record I think a big part of the problem is the huge honor you get in AV. In an ideal situation I think that AV would AB, WSG and EoTS would get you comparable honor to AV without having to be in a preform that rolls everything in sight.
01/21/08, 12:57 PM
