Lodekim

Maybe your battlegroup is weird or something, but on almost every US battlegroup now, we're seeing horde use their advantage, and the alliance never get a chance to use theirs, because the game is over before you get to that point. In a full rush vs rush the alliance base is easier to defend, and I guess has stronger NPC's, or more NPC's you can't avoid, but I haven't seen a rush vs rush game on Stormstrike US since a few days after 2.3 came out.

The horde's strong point IS being used, just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't ruining the game play for others. I would fully like to see the map as a mirror, but right now I do think that both sides need to not have the advantage the way horde have it mid field right now, because I do not want to see trench warfare where games end 0 reinforcements to 1 because it was all killing.

 

Spatula

If they didn't care they wouldn't have changed anything at all.

Um, Balinda is closer to SH GY than Galv is to IB GY. Galv is actually pretty far away from the horde spawn point there.

...along with the Icewing chokepoint, the SP chokepoint, and the DB chokepoint. Oh, and the alliance base full of mega-NPCs clustered around the flag. A flag that is, incidentally, protected by the DB bunker archers.

You are wrong, the Vann exploit got fixed back in 2.3.

Moving the cave is a good change, as it will allow Alliance to contest SH bunker. The Balinda changes may or may not be positive... if you can still interrupt her spells I still don't see her as being particularly dangerous.

 

Taantric

I really wish Blizzard would publish AV statistics pre & post 2.3 for Stormstrike & Bloodlust. In the last 2 weeks the handful of AV games I have played, I see the Horde have really solidified their defense strategy. That little road that leads up to IBGY is just as deadly as the Bridge of Death and arguably way worst for the Alliance. At least by the time the Horde get up to the BoD, they have got SH Bunker, SHGY , Bal & Icewing Bunker. They win by default the reinforcement battle.

Whereas for the alliance, in the first five mins you see the Horde defend IBGY it is pretty much game over. The Horde front lines aka Road of Death (RoD) is just so defendable that alliance pretty much need everyone on offense just to have a chance at grabbing IBGY. Which means that SHGY is lost pretty much 2-3mins into the game and all alliance offense are now respawning back SP GY. It is terrible map design when you take into account the winning conditions.

 

kaytwo

With the current state of the AV metagame (Horde defend IB choke, alliance commit more to offense to try to push through), it seems that a good strategy would be to try to hold SH GY (and possibly even bal) at the beginning of the game. The worst part of a heavy IB push is that your O ends up at SP GY because by the time you die, SH GY is contested.

I guess what I'm saying is that to counteract the starting cave deficit (at least until 2.3) and heavy IB GY defense, alliance playing a reasonable amount of D at SH GY and sending 5 up to retake/defend SH bunker (while there are still npcs there to help out) might turn the initial tide of the battle that so often heavily favors horde.

If this strategy ended up working, Horde would have to commit more to initial O, and the IB GY choke would be easier to crack.

Just a thought. While there are definitely imbalances in the map, the fact that win ratios by battlegroup seem so incredibly out of whack shows that metagame is just as or even more important than the map imbalances, and as long as you can get enough people to try a different strat, horde/alliance have a very reasonable chance of winning.

 

Taantric

The problem is that if the Alliance commit to defending SHGY, three things will happen -

a) Alliance offense is no longer capable of brute force takeover of IBGY (There is no other way to take IBGY)
b) Horde offense will have far larger numbers of deaths in their ranks. Which cause them to respawn at IBGY and at that point kill off any hope the alliance offense might have had.
c) SH Bunker being just across the road from IBGY spawn point becomes the focal point at this time. This will lead to a long turtle with horde probably winning 600-0.

If AV was a new addition to the game, then it might still be fun. But after 3 years of the same 4 BG's you just want your honor and gtfo.

Alliance is pretty much on the back foot from the get go and moving the cave back does nothing to change how the game will be played out.

 

Ninjerk

It would be hard to pull off, but if you could keep the Alliance from rushing Galv or IB and instead have most of them defend Balinda and SH until Snowfall caps so they would avoid the SP reset. Perhaps have 10 start at Balinda for the initial Bal rush and then have them move up to SHGY when the Horde starts to focus on taking it. Sounds a bit complicated for a PUG to pull off, though.

 

Valerys

And on almost every EU battlegroup, the Horde simply rushes and never defends, leading to a pretty much automatic win for Alliance. Maybe Blizzard should make different AVs for US and EU?

 

Borland

On emeriss we often rush of course and 50% we win, but i usualy cap the enemy base in a matter of minutes if there is no defenders (usual case).
I ride past balinda , i jump around Icewing bunker (slow fall/remount if i go left side of it) and run under the bridge.
AoE stormpike guards , cap a flag. Walk to middle of the bridge , invis + run one blink away from the aid station.
Last second of invis i blink to the flag (invis duration with carefull timing is enough to get just 1-2 arrows).
AoE aid station , cap it. Then i guard aid station until it gets caped.

By the way - a little trick - go with a rogue in a db bunker , sap the guard that can see you if you are caping the flag.
Cap the bunker - if the archers are not in combat - they dissapere. I dont know if its the same for horde towers , never caped them

So with mage i cap sp/aid station int he begining.
With rogue i cap both db bunkers and purge the archers by myself.

 

Borland

<copied from "making av interestng" thread>

Some general suggestions from my point of view :


1. Every time someone loots a part - armors/bloods - they are auto turned in , no need to run back to base.
Face it , even if you bother looting , you cannot expect a 20 ppl to heart back and turn in while the enemy is beating your now reduced offence.
Of course such huge change will require a increase in numbers for the returned parts because,
otherwise once people build a habit to loot - the upgrades will skyrocket.


2. Lower the strength of ice elemental/tree and let it be summoned auto in the middle of the map
once enough turn-ins are made. Also you should be able to summon it more than once.
They are great addition to the games and so on , but the simple fact that even if you bother to return the
parts - the druids/shamans have to walk all the path from the base to midfield without agroing on anything
(if they can do that then its already win game anyway) .


3. Base improvements :
Horde base path from the front gates does not turn to the right , it goes straight into our base
with a big slope , towers spread a bit to the sides and you have to run that slope under the archers fire.
Horde shopkeepers are near that slope. Every base has a stealth/invis detecting mobs (we have wolfes
but they aren't commonly seen patrolling into the base).
Suggestions for dwarf detecting mob ? Some sort of engineering alarm bots moving around ?
Both things in proximity range should make you visible to archers/players but not unstealth you unless you get hit - if
archers are busy and no player targets you - you should be still able to cheap shot/ambush attacks if you are in offence group.
With enough stealth/invis detecting there will be no "omagad entire base caped by a single druid).
Archers to the back of the structures shoot up to the flag (only to the flag , if you get behind it -
you don't get shoot) - just like alliance bunkers are now.
Bunker/Tower archers can shoot inside the towers/bunkers and both towers and bunkers cannot be
marked for capture until all archers are down.


4.You can not capture things in the base unless you have already marked at least one of the two tower/bunkers (not destroyed but marked).


5. The av trinket item is no longer a trinket or its stats are updated or the medallion of the horde works like the av trinket in av -
I rarely see people even put it on because its lowering their fighting power.
It is a reward for rep in av from the av queue mob , otherwise not many players knows it even exists –
at the moment you need to go to tarrens mill and talk with a mob without question mark on his head – its a lvl 60 quest after all.


6. Mines are too damn easy caped by a single rogue/druid , some detecting mobs that can be killed but requre a bit of timing/cooldowns usage to kill or bypass ?


7. The flying things - silidore/mulverik etc should fly in he sky without requiring a person to get down to our base , turn in a lot of things and run up the map putting a beacon.
Of course their strength should be lowered , but at the same time let them be spawned many times - as a active defence after all.


8. Mounts are prohibited in the field of strife and inside the bases - you want a pvp right ? Not a flying
cowards moving with supersonic speed through the battlefield so they can pve once more
This involves making two entrances for IB gy and SH chockepoints - i.e. no more choke points ,
you shouldn't be running through enemy , you should be pushing to kill them , having two ways to go close
them is a way to start - defence respawn faster than offence anyway so it will be equaly hard/easy for both sides.


9. 20 players start in the cave , 20 players start in the base.
Both bases need defence – at least 2-3 from these 20 will stay in base.

Couldn't come up with anything more right now

 

Lodekim

What I would suggest is that they just finally re-do the map. Fortunately for you, changes to Balinda and a slightly moved back starting tunnel will not make a particularly big difference to a rush vs rush game, at the most it will probably delay you 30 seconds from dismounting. In fact, rush vs rush will very likely stop becoming a viable tactic with the stacking buffs from war masters, so horde might adopt the winning strategy.

I agree and I think everyone here agrees, the Alliance base is much better defended, and should be changed along with the rest of the map (many people suggest a mirroring) but it isn't addressed as much because when horde uses the midfield defensive strategy, they never even have to touch the bridge to win 600-0.

 

Aadar

I'm pretty sure EU horde get more honor per hour in a rush-rush that usually splits the BG honor 60:40 (or at worst 80:20) and still winning 30% of them whilst having instant queues, than in the US situation where they have long queues and longer lasting BGs. I dont think it was thought out as a win-win, but that is how it has worked out.